SELLERS - Part of The Problem with Ebay?

[goldguy22k]

OK, so I am using what could be considered an inflammatory style in the title, but  am looking for rational discussion as I am pointing out issues and places where there could be improvement.  There is no "quick fix" solution - just things buyers should do or do better.   So offering this up as insight, from a buyer's perspective.   So yeah, if you want to look at my feedback or go ahead and make assumptions or attacks, I guess that is your "right."  Sigh.  But I am just offering insight in hopes a few other sellers might learn from my experience as a buyer. 

Recently, I needed to replace an item that I use frequently.  So being an ebay seller too, I came here looking to buy.  I had in my mind an amount I was willing to pay and searched out recent sales and confirmed I was in the right ball park. Adjusted my amount a bit.

So I entered my search criteria and ebay's algorithm returned 53 items.  On closer inspection 19 items (36%! )  were irrelevant. (....and some say there is "throttling?" )    The irrelevant items were items associated with what I wanted but not the exact item.  (I used an exact name/info search)  So down to 34 listing to consider.

Looking further, about half had prices that were 50% or more higher than the average of recent sales and most of these were BIN with no BO associated.  So I looked at the remaining 17 closely.  This is where the "fun" begins. 

Now what follows is included should anyone wish to understand what a buyer "sees" and experiences.  

So the fun is that HALF of the listings were grossly deficient!  I am looking at used items and:

• seller posts a stock photo of a new item?
• sellers posted 1-2 pictures that are blurry and don't show the condition.
• sellers have zero or scant description - perhaps relying on the LONG ebay included "catalog" information?
• Listing unclear as to what essential items were included.
• sellers failing to follow ebay policy of disclosing all flaws, etc.
• Almost none reported on the history of the item

It sure appears as though the scant info provided would leave one WIDE opening to claims of NAD since descriptions are weak.  Yeah, I know, it doesn't matter in a SNAD case, buyer always wins, but is this a reason to not show the condition or an adequate description?  Is this what sellers have defaulted to under the ebay policy?  Is this acceptable?

So I ended up sending out 7 emails requesting specific information, additional pictures, etc.  I am happy to report that I got 3 replies and those were fast and responsive sellers.  {Wish I could have rewarded each of those three with a sale. } But three others - nadda. One seller promised to provide pictures the next day and failed to follow through.

One of these "no reply" sellers had their listings sell for well less than I would have paid.  I guess I should have done what most would do, buy cheap and file a SNAD if I was disappointed.  But sigh, I have a conscience and just don't work like that.

Oh and there was one seller, with just 3 feedback, who listed scant info and a stock photo.   (That in a category known to be trolled by scammer.)   Sure looked like a potential scam case waiting to happen.

Then of course I had to go in and look at feedback scores of sellers. One with 95% FB most would have passed by, but it was a low volume seller with a Neg from ONE remorse buyer.  Then there was the seller with 1,000s of FB & a rating under 98% and hundreds of Negs for INR & inappropriate behavior (pass).

So in the end, I saw an item that was in great shape but missing a few essential pictures.  Got a FAST reply from the seller with extra info and pics.  Had a few more email exchanges and ended up buying from a responsive and helpful seller!  YEAH!  They do exist! 

OK, so someone is going to retort - "Hey, you got your item and paid what you want, what is there to complain about!"  That is NOT the point of this post.

The point is that in doing what was needed to insure I avoided a "case" (doing the DD noted on these forums)  I spent over 3-hours in the buying process!  So part of the point is: what other buyer is going to spend that time and effort?  

So it is pretty easy to see how disputes arise and how a casual buyer might easily get into trouble.  Most of which appears to be avoidable by better listing practices, being responsive to buyers, etc.

Now this is generally my experience when I go looking for used items on ebay.  It is time consuming and frustrating and I can see why it might turn off other buyers.

Maybe ebay could create a peer review panel of experts to coach sellers when these kinds of deficiencies occur?  But less than stellar selling practices appear to be wide-spread.

I dunno - all fwiw!  

OK, now flame away with the personal attacks that have nothing to do with the topic at hand.  Sigh

[pburn]

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@goldguy22k wrote:

 So yeah, if you want to look at my feedback or go ahead and make assumptions or attacks, I guess that is your "right."  Sigh.  

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No personal attacks from me, because I stopped reading after this sentence.

[dadsfloridatreasure]

As already stated, it is a sense of laziness on some sellers.

You have to understand, there are many sellers on here whos main goal is to list as many items as possible, very quickly, in an assembly line style.

They want to list 100s or 1000s of items a day or week, so to them, that means quanity versus quality.  One or two photos and 1 or 2 sentences for a description.

For myself, I take great pride in the vintage items I list.  I go above and beyond in quality photos and lengthy descriptions, especially when I uncover important historical details that are meaningful to justify price areas.

I slowly learned that eBay listings from 20 years ago that had a flat bed scanner photo and short description doesn't work anymore.  SNAD cases that affected me, also forced me to change my quality in listings.

I cater now to a different, more informed buyer that wants to take the time to analyze my listings and feel like they have the item already in hand.

I'll never forget there used to be a clothing store chain up in Chicago calls Syms.  I think they were based in New York.  Their TV commercials slogan was "An educated consumer is our best customer."  I feel that holds true today.

[dhbookds]

I agree with most of what you say.......having done alot of researching.  But I can't figure out what ebay does to improve seller listing habits IF buyers don't complain/neg/snad.......  Physically impossible to vet all the listings..... Some items need alot of pictures, some are fine with 2 or 3.  Item specifics in alot of categories almost suffice for a description UNLESS there is a flaw/fault/problem, but no way to check that unless the seller discloses it. 

Unlike Wmart, etc. is made up of millions of individual sellers and they run the gamet of Great to Terrible, always have and probably always will unless ebay puts in some kind of approval system to list.......

[castlemagicmemories]

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/The-primary-problem-with-ebay-is-not-the-buyers/td-p/28937636

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/SNAD-SCMAZZLE/td-p/27724675/page/4

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Archive-Selling/I-m-beginning-to-see-what-buyers-contend-with/td-p/278...

[annasunicorns]

You make a good point about time. People I sell to regularly message before buying with questions. I used to cover those in my listing but found buyers would ask anyway and be upset to find they just needed to read the listing. So I stopped. It would be a good idea to try adding a blurb to each listing answering common questions again, in case the next buyer will be reading.

[jason_incognito]

I hate to say this, but anybody that buys much here can tell you this.

It is a horrible place to buy.  Congrats on finding a seller, now I want to know did you get what was sold? Was it packed in a way to avoid it's destruction in transit?

When eBay sells dang near everything a person could want, how is it that there are so few buyers with huge feedback numbers? Why is it that a buyer with 8 or 9 buys in a month is the best we can get? And then they drop off after a few months?

The vast majority of my feedback are as a buyer. It's because I'm a collector and many of the things I buy can't be found otherwise. But I need new bedding, why is it that there is no way I'd even consider buying it here?

[goldguy22k]

Thanks Castle - always can count on you for the research and on topic replies!

Seems my experience isn't alone and from the number of replies it appears to be a larger problem than suspected.

[threshold.sales.group]

Fwiw, for context I think it helps to know the manufacturer suggested retail of the item(s) in question? If it's a wholesale item, then what's the full service distributor price?   

Of course there are sloppy ebay sellers, that's bad for all, but what gets lost many times in these sort of discussions is that often the items in question are being shopped and then purchased at a deep discount off regular retail or wholesale. There's no free lunch. If as a buyer folks want to purchase for lower cost than than official distribution channels then that will require doing some digging and putting up with some hassles. Guaranteed. It's just a basic business fact. If the occasional pain in the butt outweighs the chance to lower costs then that buyer should be purchasing from full service sources and paying their price.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@goldguy22k wrote:

Thanks Castle - always can count on you for the research and on topic replies!

Seems my experience isn't alone and from the number of replies it appears to be a larger problem than suspected.

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Thank you, glad to help!  The problem is much larger and as you can see many sellers who buy here are aware of it; some won't buy here anymore, which is sad.  There are others who are totally in denial because it is not in the realm of their experience but that does not mean it is not happening.

Those links were just three threads and don't take into account the many random posts here and there.

[goldguy22k]

Thanks for the reply as you proved the reason for adding the disclaimer! 

[annasunicorns]

^I love ebay for that as a buyer, I admit. You can get amazing prices on occaision. For those kinds of items I ask no questions I just guage its relative worth and buy. If its disappointing, I resell it myself, and take the loss as part of the cost of getting first dibs on a possible unicorn. 🙂

[castlemagicmemories]

Of course there are sloppy ebay sellers, that's bad for all, but what gets lost many times in these sort of discussions is that often the items in question are being shopped and then purchased at a deep discount off regular retail or wholesale. There's no free lunch. If as a buyer folks want to purchase for lower cost than than official distribution channels then that will require doing some digging and putting up with some hassles. Guaranteed. It's just a basic business fact. If the occasional pain in the butt outweighs the chance to lower costs then that buyer should be purchasing from full service sources and paying their price.

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 That item may be sold at a lower price because the seller does not have the overhead that a regular distribution outlet may have, and they may have acquired the item at a deep discount and are passing some of that on to the buyer in hopes of making a sale.

Selling an item at a discount does not absolve the seller of the responsibility of creating an accurate listing, which is for their protection.  The buyer has the MBG and the seller pays return shipping so that should be incentive to provide a good listing even if the price is good.  It shouldn't necesssarily follow that a lower price will mean pot luck.  Some digging may be required but the lower price may be because of condition, or age, and that needs to be disclosed for the seller's protection.

Bottom line, yes, the buyer can buy at the official distribution channels, and that seller can sit on the item because buyers are reluctant to buy even with MBG protection if the listing is sub par.  

[castlemagicmemories]

You have to understand, there are many sellers on here whos main goal is to list as many items as possible, very quickly, in an assembly line style.

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And this may lead to very poor buying experiences.

[terrycanarsky]

But I am just offering insight in hopes a few other sellers might learn from my experience as a buyer. 

Fair enough.  But I would hazard a guess your lengthy procedure is not what the average buyer goes through when they come to eBay to purchase.

I've worked for Terry and have for nearing two decades, though not exclusively eBay sales.  We've sold a LOT on eBay throughout those years.  And in our main category, Business & Industrial, there luckily is a population of buyers who for the most part know exactly what they need, how to ask pertinent questions, etc.   Sometimes we don't know what to put into a description which might be useful to a buyer - and sometimes a potential buyer is gracious enough to help us with learning more about the item.  For the most part, we try to take clear photos and answer questions if more info is needed.

As a buyer on my own account, though, I can tell you it is a whole different ball of wax. Some of the worst:

-  I see the multitude of duplicate listings in which a seller thinks they're being clever to skirt the "no duplicate listing" rule by adding a letter or number to the title.  And those are not all Chinese, either! 

-  Pictures don't match the title/description (wrong part number, mistaken upload, whatever).   Part of my job as a seller actually involves making sure our listing don't suffer from this - and every now and then I miss one in the 8k+ listings we have on eBay.  But geesh.

-  Sellers being deliberately shady with a good title and decent price - but then there's a small print mention that the sale does not include X even though that's exactly what the title says is for sale!  I generally report these guys.  They're not clever, they're thieves.

-  SEO keyword spamming.  OMGs, people, get over it.  I won't even click into a listing which spams keywords regardless of need or want.

-  Overwhelmingly, however, are the complete failures of the eBay Search to return results consistently and accurately.  If I'm looking for a wheel bearing for my mini-van (recent experience), for example, I do not want to see lacy push-up bras or collectible stamps.  No part number or any other parameter in common, just sort of randomly thrown in as a lark, apparently. 

A good seller would be able to sell me something I was looking for if there was a clear photo, a decent price, and an honest transaction.  I do not need eBay's stock photos and a broken catalog.  I don't expect or need flashy titles, blow-by-blow details of the entire history of that item, thirty photos showing every single mote of dust, or any other exceedingly time-consuming and unnecessary extreme. 

Then there are the odd items that I could've sworn I wouldn't find on eBay but do.  Wonderful conversations have been had with those sellers.  THIS is where eBay shines - providing the venue for these people to peddle their wares. 

~M