eBay

goldguy22k · ‎10-22-2018

OK, so I am using what could be considered an inflammatory style in the title, but am looking for rational discussion as I am pointing out issues and places where there could be improvement. There is no "quick fix" solution - just things buyers should do or do better. So offering this up as insight, from a buyer's perspective. So yeah, if you want to look at my feedback or go ahead and make assumptions or attacks, I guess that is your "right." Sigh. But I am just offering insight in hopes a few other sellers might learn from my experience as a buyer.

Recently, I needed to replace an item that I use frequently. So being an ebay seller too, I came here looking to buy. I had in my mind an amount I was willing to pay and searched out recent sales and confirmed I was in the right ball park. Adjusted my amount a bit.

So I entered my search criteria and ebay's algorithm returned 53 items. On closer inspection 19 items (36%! ) were irrelevant. (....and some say there is "throttling?" ) The irrelevant items were items associated with what I wanted but not the exact item. (I used an exact name/info search) So down to 34 listing to consider.

Looking further, about half had prices that were 50% or more higher than the average of recent sales and most of these were BIN with no BO associated. So I looked at the remaining 17 closely. This is where the "fun" begins.

Now what follows is included should anyone wish to understand what a buyer "sees" and experiences.

So the fun is that HALF of the listings were grossly deficient! I am looking at used items and:

seller posts a stock photo of a new item?
sellers posted 1-2 pictures that are blurry and don't show the condition.
sellers have zero or scant description - perhaps relying on the LONG ebay included "catalog" information?
Listing unclear as to what essential items were included.
sellers failing to follow ebay policy of disclosing all flaws, etc.
Almost none reported on the history of the item

It sure appears as though the scant info provided would leave one WIDE opening to claims of NAD since descriptions are weak. Yeah, I know, it doesn't matter in a SNAD case, buyer always wins, but is this a reason to not show the condition or an adequate description? Is this what sellers have defaulted to under the ebay policy? Is this acceptable?

So I ended up sending out 7 emails requesting specific information, additional pictures, etc. I am happy to report that I got 3 replies and those were fast and responsive sellers. {Wish I could have rewarded each of those three with a sale. } But three others - nadda. One seller promised to provide pictures the next day and failed to follow through.

One of these "no reply" sellers had their listings sell for well less than I would have paid. I guess I should have done what most would do, buy cheap and file a SNAD if I was disappointed. But sigh, I have a conscience and just don't work like that.

Oh and there was one seller, with just 3 feedback, who listed scant info and a stock photo. (That in a category known to be trolled by scammer.) Sure looked like a potential scam case waiting to happen.

Then of course I had to go in and look at feedback scores of sellers. One with 95% FB most would have passed by, but it was a low volume seller with a Neg from ONE remorse buyer. Then there was the seller with 1,000s of FB & a rating under 98% and hundreds of Negs for INR & inappropriate behavior (pass).

So in the end, I saw an item that was in great shape but missing a few essential pictures. Got a FAST reply from the seller with extra info and pics. Had a few more email exchanges and ended up buying from a responsive and helpful seller! YEAH! They do exist!

OK, so someone is going to retort - "Hey, you got your item and paid what you want, what is there to complain about!" That is NOT the point of this post.

The point is that in doing what was needed to insure I avoided a "case" (doing the DD noted on these forums) I spent over 3-hours in the buying process! So part of the point is: what other buyer is going to spend that time and effort?

So it is pretty easy to see how disputes arise and how a casual buyer might easily get into trouble. Most of which appears to be avoidable by better listing practices, being responsive to buyers, etc.

Now this is generally my experience when I go looking for used items on ebay. It is time consuming and frustrating and I can see why it might turn off other buyers.

Maybe ebay could create a peer review panel of experts to coach sellers when these kinds of deficiencies occur? But less than stellar selling practices appear to be wide-spread.

I dunno - all fwiw!

OK, now flame away with the personal attacks that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Sigh

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-23-2018

What's the incentive for bad sellers to provide a good selling experience if all they get is a 10% discount on selling fees?

I agree with you, @goldguy22k, I thought getting a sale was the whole point of listing something.

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-23-2018

@yuzuha wrote:
@goldguy22k wrote:
@totoro470 wrote:
Lazy sellers are annoying but you have to think of it from the seller's perspective- is it worth the time to provide a perfect listing? For me personally, I consider my time too valuable to even list items under $8 each unless I have many of them. As the price goes up from there I take more care in my photos and wording in the description. Ebay is a job for a lot of sellers and there's just not enough incentive for you to put a lot of work in most listings. Often times putting more time into something is pointless because the prices are so competitive that you can't increase the price to compensate. Having better photos may give you a slight edge, but take it from me that it's often times easier to just lower your price a little lower than the lowest than to spend an extra 20 minutes taking photos. The funny thing is that when I first started listing a few years ago I actually cared about everything I listed but as time has progressed I've increasingly become more disillusioned with the entire thing. Ebay rates go up, their requirements go up, all while my discount for providing a quality service has been cut in half for no reason. What's the incentive for bad sellers to provide a good selling experience if all they get is a 10% discount on selling fees? On top of that, the amount of favoritism towards developing countries has become more evident with time. I'm personally not quite a slob yet but I can see how others get there after being here long enough.

My point is, every year things get worse for many regular sellers and sometimes that is reflected in the service they provide. We have to provide more product to keep up with the loss in income due to foreign competition and increasing rates/returns. You have to understand that having less time per listing will inevitably lead to low quality over time. I believe if ebay gave more of an incentive and stopped trying to be Amazon the entire site would be a great place to shop. Unfortunately, as time progresses, the site becomes more of a dirt mall than anything.

Hmmm, not being confrontational, but you started off saying it wasn't worth the effort to list items under a certain price level. I agree, But the highlighted text has me scratching my head.

If it takes too much time (i.e. you place a value on your time) to list properly, then that shouldn't be the answer - don't list?
Yeah, I'm baffled by this. If it's not worth the time and effort for the amount you're going to get, why are you even bothering at all? Just donate it.

(Also, who spends 20+ minutes taking photos and why on earth WOULD you? I can easily get 12 good-quality photos in under 5 minutes.)

Perhaps burn out accounts for the thoughts that selling just isn't worth the effort.

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-23-2018

@totoro470 wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
My suggestion: ebay really needs to do is embrace the idea of being a flea market/garage sale. This means, stop punishing people for selling used items and stop pushing things like guaranteed delivery and free returns- things that give large full time ebayers/companies an advantage over small sellers.

That would surely reduce sales greatly, if there is no recourse for inadequate listings. There is no reason that used items cannot be sold successfully here, and many do just that, as they have accurate listings. There was a recent post by someone who has sold here for twenty years~used~with no problems because they describe thoroughly and well. If there is an issue, they state it.

That may work for a flea market where the buyer can see exactly what they are buying, but not online where complete disclosure of condition may not be happening and the buyer doesn't even know it. The MBG helps buyers buy those no returns listings that may never be bought without that.
Yeah, you can still sell used items here but can you really argue that it isn't gradually becoming harder?

With all due respect, the basic tenet of listing~that you provide an accurate description, state all flaws and accurately describe the item's condition has never changed. If this is done, the seller has a greater chance of not having a SNAD, although I know some SNADs may be false.

You could blame buyer's expectations but, just from ebay's standpoint, they are constantly adding requirements that make it more difficult- like free returns, algorithms based on views, promoted listings, and guaranteed delivery. You could even say that ebay is responsible for giving buyers such high expectations. I mean, if a flea market started offering all these amazing services, wouldn't people come to expect them eventually?

I don't see that Ebay is responsible for giving buyers high expectations. I don't consider wanting the item in the condition specified in a somewhat timely fashion to be a high expectation. All of the things you mention~GD, free returns, promoted listings, etc, are the choice of the seller and they are not forced to offer any of them~in spite of the many threads that state Ebay is forcing free returns~which is said because they want TRS. Nothing is forcing them to be TRS, and many buyers don't think it means anything.

Ebay isn't stopping anyone from selling used items, the question is- are they encouraging it or discouraging it based on their policies? You can describe everything in every minute detail and provide tons of photos but remember that I'm also making less money than I did a few years for generally the same items. If anything, this means I need to put less time and effort into my listing, at what point is it going to become more of a hassle than it's worth? Shipping has gone up, fees have gone up, and now buyers expect more from me (thanks to ebay). So yeah, things are getting worse from my perspective and ebay seems to care more about putting ads or suggesting Chinese sellers on my listings.

I understand your dilemma, but putting less effort may mean less sales as buyers hit the back button, but that is your call. If it is so much of hassle, then listing is not the thing to do.

-Many changes are based on a series of several small changes rather than a few large changes. A prime example is ebay's yellow color at the beginning. When ebay introduced a white background everyone got upset and they switched it back to yellow. ebay then slowly transitioned that yellow to white- over a long enough period of time people didn't notice. Ebay won't become exactly mlike Amazon, there is no question though that it is becoming more similar to Amazon- especially when it comes to things like shipping and returns. Honestly, ebay seems to have only been making harmful changes ever since I started listing here, things only seem to get less profitable over time. So yeah, I think it's a bit much to expect sellers to do more work for less profit.

Again, if work isn't put into listings, buyers may hit the back button. Your choice.

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-23-2018

@missjen831 wrote:
@creekcoyote wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@jason_incognito wrote:
I can tell you that it used to be that buying glass I'd get 60% or 70% boxes filled with peanuts. Now it might be 10%......
And that 10% may not be adequate.
I used to pack with a lot of peanuts until the complaints were vocalized that buyers don't want peanuts. They don't want to have to deal with the mess. It is rather a catch 22. If you use peanuts you are villified. If you don't use peanuts, you are a poor packer.
Amen. And you can add in there that you also get villified if you try NOT to be a poor packer & you use the wrong kind of packing peanuts. So.....you just can't win. I'm sticking to clothing & stationary/planners so that all i need is zip block bags and padded mailers.

I've seen where sellers got negs for packing too well...such over packed, took me far too long to actually get through to the item.

ten_o_nine · ‎10-23-2018

Maybe, but should be less than 1%. ebay is responsible for the 99%.

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-23-2018

@lde-94 wrote:
I recently wanted a specific style and brand of shoes.

now I could have went straight to the manufacturer, but I know folks that live next to the outlets can buy previous year stock on super sale and pass the savings onto me here.

I have now purchase the same pair of shoes for different times only to have each pair arrive not as ddescribed.

TWO were listed as new and arrived very used. One was the wrong style and size, and one pair arrived with only one shoe, mangled beyond belief in a large envelope.

I tried to purchase a hoodie, seller listed as new, it arrived with an oil stain.

My husband needed a part for his motorcycle, he searched for 4 days before giving up and buying elsewhere due to bad descriptions, bad feedback and sellers not answering questions.

So it's not just lazy descriptions, it's the deceptive descriptions and careless sellers.

So right there, concerning your shoe purchases and the hoodie, five purchases, all were wrong. 100% SNAD rate there.

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-24-2018

What's the incentive for bad sellers to provide a good selling experience if all they get is a 10% discount on selling fees?

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I thought that would be a sale.

creekcoyote · ‎10-26-2018

@castlemagicmemories wrote:
What's the incentive for bad sellers to provide a good selling experience if all they get is a 10% discount on selling fees?

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I thought that would be a sale.

It would be a great incentive if the seller didn't have to worry about having the item returned at the sellers expense just because the buyer doesn't like it. Or not getting the right item back, etc. and no help from E-bay in actually resolving these issues to the satisfaction of the seller.

COYOTES RULE!!!

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-26-2018

@creekcoyote wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
What's the incentive for bad sellers to provide a good selling experience if all they get is a 10% discount on selling fees?

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I thought that would be a sale.
It would be a great incentive if the seller didn't have to worry about having the item returned at the sellers expense just because the buyer doesn't like it. Or not getting the right item back, etc. and no help from E-bay in actually resolving these issues to the satisfaction of the seller.

That's true~not everyone acts ethically~and I am sorry for all who have had these problems.

Having returned a SNAD item to the seller, only to have him claim it wasn't his item, when it absolutely was, I totally understand how problematic returns can be for either side.