eBay

goldguy22k · ‎10-22-2018

OK, so I am using what could be considered an inflammatory style in the title, but am looking for rational discussion as I am pointing out issues and places where there could be improvement. There is no "quick fix" solution - just things buyers should do or do better. So offering this up as insight, from a buyer's perspective. So yeah, if you want to look at my feedback or go ahead and make assumptions or attacks, I guess that is your "right." Sigh. But I am just offering insight in hopes a few other sellers might learn from my experience as a buyer.

Recently, I needed to replace an item that I use frequently. So being an ebay seller too, I came here looking to buy. I had in my mind an amount I was willing to pay and searched out recent sales and confirmed I was in the right ball park. Adjusted my amount a bit.

So I entered my search criteria and ebay's algorithm returned 53 items. On closer inspection 19 items (36%! ) were irrelevant. (....and some say there is "throttling?" ) The irrelevant items were items associated with what I wanted but not the exact item. (I used an exact name/info search) So down to 34 listing to consider.

Looking further, about half had prices that were 50% or more higher than the average of recent sales and most of these were BIN with no BO associated. So I looked at the remaining 17 closely. This is where the "fun" begins.

Now what follows is included should anyone wish to understand what a buyer "sees" and experiences.

So the fun is that HALF of the listings were grossly deficient! I am looking at used items and:

seller posts a stock photo of a new item?
sellers posted 1-2 pictures that are blurry and don't show the condition.
sellers have zero or scant description - perhaps relying on the LONG ebay included "catalog" information?
Listing unclear as to what essential items were included.
sellers failing to follow ebay policy of disclosing all flaws, etc.
Almost none reported on the history of the item

It sure appears as though the scant info provided would leave one WIDE opening to claims of NAD since descriptions are weak. Yeah, I know, it doesn't matter in a SNAD case, buyer always wins, but is this a reason to not show the condition or an adequate description? Is this what sellers have defaulted to under the ebay policy? Is this acceptable?

So I ended up sending out 7 emails requesting specific information, additional pictures, etc. I am happy to report that I got 3 replies and those were fast and responsive sellers. {Wish I could have rewarded each of those three with a sale. } But three others - nadda. One seller promised to provide pictures the next day and failed to follow through.

One of these "no reply" sellers had their listings sell for well less than I would have paid. I guess I should have done what most would do, buy cheap and file a SNAD if I was disappointed. But sigh, I have a conscience and just don't work like that.

Oh and there was one seller, with just 3 feedback, who listed scant info and a stock photo. (That in a category known to be trolled by scammer.) Sure looked like a potential scam case waiting to happen.

Then of course I had to go in and look at feedback scores of sellers. One with 95% FB most would have passed by, but it was a low volume seller with a Neg from ONE remorse buyer. Then there was the seller with 1,000s of FB & a rating under 98% and hundreds of Negs for INR & inappropriate behavior (pass).

So in the end, I saw an item that was in great shape but missing a few essential pictures. Got a FAST reply from the seller with extra info and pics. Had a few more email exchanges and ended up buying from a responsive and helpful seller! YEAH! They do exist!

OK, so someone is going to retort - "Hey, you got your item and paid what you want, what is there to complain about!" That is NOT the point of this post.

The point is that in doing what was needed to insure I avoided a "case" (doing the DD noted on these forums) I spent over 3-hours in the buying process! So part of the point is: what other buyer is going to spend that time and effort?

So it is pretty easy to see how disputes arise and how a casual buyer might easily get into trouble. Most of which appears to be avoidable by better listing practices, being responsive to buyers, etc.

Now this is generally my experience when I go looking for used items on ebay. It is time consuming and frustrating and I can see why it might turn off other buyers.

Maybe ebay could create a peer review panel of experts to coach sellers when these kinds of deficiencies occur? But less than stellar selling practices appear to be wide-spread.

I dunno - all fwiw!

OK, now flame away with the personal attacks that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Sigh

the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth · ‎10-22-2018

Well, I don't think anyone said ALL sellers were bad. There were two main points made that I agree with.

1) low prices do not justify sloppy listings

2) most buyers do not expect champagne items on a Bud Light budget as someone suggested upthread. Most buyers just want what they were promised in the ad and that's not an unreasonable requirement.

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-22-2018

@fashunu4eeuh wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
“...Selling an item at a discount does not absolve the seller of the responsibility of creating an accurate listing, which is for their protection...”

Point well said.

Thank you!

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-22-2018

@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:
Well, I don't think anyone said ALL sellers were bad. There were two main points made that I agree with.

1) low prices do not justify sloppy listings
2) most buyers do not expect champagne items on a Bud Light budget as someone suggested upthread. Most buyers just want what they were promised in the ad and that's not an unreasonable requirement.

Thank you! I certainly have never said all sellers are bad. BUT there are many that are resulting in legitimate SNADs and hostile customer service, and this can cause ALL sellers to lose sales. Since sales are down for many, while there are other considerations as well, that may also be part of the problem. While there is nothing that good sellers can do to contain this trend, there is always a possibility that one or more of these sellers with questionable listings will come to the Board, out of curiousity or for help with a problem, and it just might foster a realization that listing in an inadequate fashion may cost them money. We see many threads that say, BUT I HAD NO RETURNS, when the MBG overrides that no returns policy for SNAD~no returns does not mean you're stuck with it, sucker! Some sellers may find the thought unacceptable but that does not make it any less true, and there is no reason to reject it or be offended if you aren't part of the problem. Buyers that read here may also be offended by the constant assumptions that the buyer is a scammer~but when there is an issue with a seller, it is just that they made a mistake.

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-22-2018

Ran out of edit time.

This OP posted as a buyer of his bad experiences. He is not the first, and will most likely not be the last. To dismiss what he has said, in spite of what others have said, is certainly anyone's perogative, but consider the fact that while you may not like it, it is happening.

bosmingfarg · ‎10-22-2018

I always find what I need on ebay as a buyer. If I look for cheap toy lots, I can find them. Vintage clothing ? plenty good.

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-22-2018

@timzbiz wrote:
Write to Macy's and see if you get any additional photos.

Most of Macy's listings have more than one picture, and they are by professional photographers.

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-22-2018

@lde-94 wrote:
The op actually miss something that should have been included regarding asking questions.

Many sellers have become so paranoid that if the buyer ask them any question at all they block the buyer, rather than answering and possibly making the sale

Yes, that can and does happen!

goldguy22k · ‎10-22-2018

@lde-94 wrote:
The op actually miss something that should have been included regarding asking questions.

Many sellers have become so paranoid that if the buyer ask them any question at all they block the buyer, rather than answering and possibly making the sale

YOUSA! Seriously? Then I must be blocked by hundreds of sellers as I ask a lot of questions. A pox on me for trying to avoid SNAD cases, doing due diligence and wanting to know what I am buying!!!!

Wish there was a way to block sellers - as I'd have a L-0-N-G list of those who couldn't be bothered responding to polite inquiries. I mean seriously? That is like walking into a store asking a question about a product on the shelf and the associate turning their back on you. Sigh.

In fact, on a lot of items, I ask questions just to gage the seller. Sure looks like this is a key metric in figuring out who are the professional sellers and those "wanna bees," hobby sellers, casual seller and lazy sellers.

With so many less than wonderful experiences, I am always pleased to find good sellers that have great listings, are responsive and friendly/helpful service. What I regret is that often I can't buy from every good seller I run across, as often I only need one item.

So, what I have done in the past is send a note to the seller who was super helpful and thank them for the kindness and good service. While I know it has to be disappointing to not make the sale, I do hope the note of thanks brightens their day a bit. So far most sellers reply with a thanks or you're welcome. I think getting those keeps me going and gives me faith as I wade through the buying process.

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-22-2018

@goldguy22k wrote:
@lde-94 wrote:
The op actually miss something that should have been included regarding asking questions.

Many sellers have become so paranoid that if the buyer ask them any question at all they block the buyer, rather than answering and possibly making the sale

YOUSA! Seriously? Then I must be blocked by hundreds of sellers as I ask a lot of questions. A pox on me for trying to avoid SNAD cases, doing due diligence and wanting to know what I am buying!!!!

Wish there was a way to block sellers - as I'd have a L-0-N-G list of those who couldn't be bothered responding to polite inquiries. I mean seriously? That is like walking into a store asking a question about a product on the shelf and the associate turning their back on you. Sigh.

In fact, on a lot of items, I ask questions just to gage the seller. Sure looks like this is a key metric in figuring out who are the professional sellers and those "wanna bees," hobby sellers, casual seller and lazy sellers.

With so many less than wonderful experiences, I am always pleased to find good sellers that have great listings, are responsive and friendly/helpful service. What I regret is that often I can't buy from every good seller I run across, as often I only need one item.

So, what I have done in the past is send a note to the seller who was super helpful and thank them for the kindness and good service. While I know it has to be disappointing to not make the sale, I do hope the note of thanks brightens their day a bit. So far most sellers reply with a thanks or you're welcome. I think getting those keeps me going and gives me faith as I wade through the buying process.

Well, many are afraid that they questioning buyer may become problematic. I can understand wanting to avoid problems but they may also be avoiding sales~good sales. They simply don't look at it as the listing is lacking and you are doing your buyer's due diligence to avoid a SNAD, which they would have to pay the return shipping for. It's actually to the seller's advantage to have you ask questions~you are taking responsibility~and going out of your way to find out info that may gain that seller a sale. Many buyers just won't ask questions anymore~they just hit the back button.

I've done the same thing~if when I have finally managed to extract a needed bit of info on a listing and it does not fit my purposes, I wll thank them yet again (I always thank them when I present the question) and say I am sorry but it does not fit my purposes and I need whatever.

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-22-2018

@jason_incognito wrote:
@threshold.sales.group wrote:
Fwiw, for context I think it helps to know the manufacturer suggested retail of the item(s) in question? If it's a wholesale item, then what's the full service distributor price?

Of course there are sloppy ebay sellers, that's bad for all, but what gets lost many times in these sort of discussions is that often the items in question are being shopped and then purchased at a deep discount off regular retail or wholesale. There's no free lunch. If as a buyer folks want to purchase for lower cost than than official distribution channels then that will require doing some digging and putting up with some hassles. Guaranteed. It's just a basic business fact. If the occasional pain in the butt outweighs the chance to lower costs then that buyer should be purchasing from full service sources and paying their price.

Funny, but I seldom see deep discounts. I do see listings for close to retail and above...... alot of them.

Plus when you pay "full price" there is often free shipping. On ebay the shipping is often extra and expensive.

@jason_incognito

I recall your comment that you had spoken to hundreds if not thousands of former Ebay buyers who said they no longer buy here because they received junk. This shows that there is a problem.

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-22-2018

@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:
Jeez, I'm not expecting world class service. Walmart level service would be nice. I agree with the OP, there are too many lazy sellers on here. In my category those lazy sellers expect more money than I sell for on my speciality full service website. They throw up a few fuzzy pictures of a dirty item without any kind of description or effort at all.

So from what I'm seeing and I buy a LOT, many Ebay sellers now want to provide thrift store level service but want Neiman Marcus pricing.

Expecting world class service would seem to be the school of thought that if something is wrong, it must be the buyer's fault.

goldguy22k · ‎10-22-2018

@creekcoyote wrote:

They are not allowed to be human and make mistakes that are common in the rest of the retail world. So what happens?
Many of the decent sellers leave or no longer sell much on here. Nor do they buy much anymore. Yes, there are scamming sellers but the good and decent sellers far outweight the bad even under the conditions that they are expected to sell under.

You have some good points there and I'd like to comment further.

First the last part - as far a decent sellers outweighing the bad. I think what I demonstrated with the numbers in my post was that HALF of the sellers had deficient listing and only about HALF of those who had inquires sent to them bothered to reply to those inquiries. Now I have not done that extensive of a study on other buys I have made, but generally those numbers appear to ring true, in my experience (fwiw).

So from this chair or view point I'd respectively disagree that good sellers far outweigh bad sellers. It seems like it is nearly 50-50 these days and thus a larger problem.

So how do we "coach up" the humans around here that wear the tag seller, when the act, er, well, "human?"

I think the discussion could turn to "how to" turn that tide? How do we get more sellers that are struggling to grow and improve?

One thing I think ebay could do, especially in "problem categories" is provide and "example listing" with explanations, that others could use to gage their performance against. Think of that - the capable sellers will hit the mark every time and those that are struggling might not hit a home run, but improve to a triple or a double!

So why wouldn't improving the quality, over all of listing be a better move and a better investment than turning this site into a Sears & Roebuck Catalog?

I dunno, I'm just saying.

goldguy22k · ‎10-22-2018

@yuzuha wrote:
In the meantime, I've taken most of my business over to Amazon because everything I have bought there has come packaged PROPERLY.

This line had me laughing as it is contrary to a personal experience.

Several years ago, I ordered a gallon of an industrial strength cleaner from AZN. It came in an over-sized box with ZERO packaging such that it bounced around & flipped around inside the box. On top of that, the lid was not taped closed.

All-in-all Amazon's packaging was a HazMat situation waiting to happen and a huge insurance claim in the wings. Imagine if one of those UPS carriers had bounced it enough to loosen the lid and then it sat on a top shelf leaking away damaging all of the packages that lay below.

Unknown stuff, leaked all over the place and potentially on the street: me thinks unlabeled Stuff has to be treated as a HazMat.

Shortly after that, I got a survey or inquiry from Amazon on how I liked their service & packaging. I pointed out the lack of secondary containment, untaped caps and lack of internal cushioning/packaging. The next time I got a liquid from Amazon, the lid was taped closed, the gallon jug was in a sealed bag and there was adequate packaging!

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-22-2018

While there are many good sellers here, the ratio of 50/50 is not unrealistic, and as someone mentioned, you just don't know what you are going to get. It's not a question of not knowing how to vet~or not doing buyer's due diligence~you can still wind up in a problematic transaction for many reasons. Saying buyers should just stop buying doesn't help that 50% of sellers who are good~it's making like those buyers are the problem when they are not, or it's their fault when it isn't.

The seller may have had their negs removed and their feedback scrubbed. You can't judge what isn't there.

You may have asked pertinent questions but received flat out wrong answers. Several SNADs I ended up in were because the seller did NOT check the item but just answered it was fine~but it came with damage that i questioned seeing in the listing pics as it was unclear and there was no noted damage in the listing. How do I know they didn't check? When the item was received SNAD, I would mention that I had asked questions pre purchase and been assured the item was fine. More than once it was admitted that they never actually looked at the item. Maybe they hoped the buyer would just accept whatever they sent, or they could just run off the return. Maybe they just didn't care.

The listing itself may have information that is patently wrong. I have received items where the measurements were as much as 6 inches wrong.

There was a thread a few years back by a buyer who lost her MBG coverage. She bought all her Christmas presents on Ebay and 50% were SNAD. She said she would not buy here again. I bought Christmas presents on Ebay and more than 50% came SNAD but I did not file as many cases as she did, so my MBG stayed intact. One was a fiber optic house that was listed as new and shown in and out of the box in pictures. It came with the top of the box ripped off and shoved in with the item. The seller's explanation when asked was that she couldn't get the item back in the box right. So I guess it seemed logical to her to just rip the top off and shove it in there. Makes a nice looking gift.