eBay

manana_cookiekiller · ‎02-19-2020

Hi,

This scam had been around for a long time, it was originated from the Chinese version of ebay called TAOBAO, I guess some buyers in the states are picking it up also .

Basically what they do, is:

1) buy something from you, make fast payment to lower your guard;

2) once they receive the package, they will request a return under " defect/does not match seller description" category, and take it to the ebay customer service no matter what you do/ask unless you refund immediately ---- By ebay policy, the seller will have to accept the return and pay for the return shipping fee;

3) they will keep the item, and return some cheap item of no value back to you --- the scam buyer gets to keep your item as well as a full refund . You the seller loose out on the item, have to pay out of pockets for the shipping fees on both trips.

4) if they know you have proof of what you sent out after taking it to the ebay customer service, they will then purposely break the item before sending it back and claim that's how it was delivered -- seller has to issue full refund ,loose out on shipping fees on both ways, scam buyer looses nothing.

It will then be up to the seller to prove what the scammer mailed back to you is NOT what you sold , and mailed to the scammer buyer. From what I have gathered, only successful cases of proving that is only if you have a continuous video showing the whole process of:

1)you showing the item in the condition mentioned in your listing;

2)you then pack it in front of a us postal service member and send it to the delivery service;

3)the delivery service take that package from you and put in their truck

All those plus when the seller receive the returned item:

4)you receiving the returned package while the mail man hand it to you ( to prove you didn't open the package and put other things inside)

5)you unpack the package and found out it's not the item , or item not in the condition you sent out .

So it will be nearly impossible for the case to be judged in favor of the seller. PS , pictures are not enough to be used as proof.

This is a very low risk scam, even if you have proof of the returned item being different from what you shipped, the scammers can easily argue "o, sorry I had so and so pack and ship it for me, he/she/it must have mixed it up with something else blablabla"

This scam had been circulating around in China for a long time from what I have read. I guess it had finally found it's way to Ebay and hit my little store this past week. Which is really a shame....

These scammers usually target the larger sellers as they are more likely to issue refund without asking questions. But once in a while individual sellers like me would be the victim also, as they know most small sellers don't have the time or the means to fight the case in ebay court .

I had been buying and selling stuff on ebay since 2003, never ran into a scammer till now. Guess I was too naive.... Hopefully my experience would help other small sellers avoid scammers like the one I encountered.

For now though, I think I will try to sell the more valuable things on facebook market place /craigslist etc to avoid being scammed again (hopefully). Have to say I lost quite a bit of faith today....

manana_cookiekiller · ‎02-19-2020

Do I only get to have your advice if I answer that question?If you are interested in knowing the scammer's buyer ID so you can block it, I'm afraid I can't say anything in the public forum, that's gonna put my account in violation of ebay's privacy policies or something like that. I googled for websites to share scammer IDs but it looks like they had all been taken down. And honestly, I'm afraid if I said anything that could reveal the scammer's ID, my other auctions could be a target for scammers' retaliation...
When I made this post, I had come to terms with the facts that I lost money from this, I don't want to revenge or start a witch hunt on them, I was just hoping my case could help other people from being scammed in the future.

corvettestainless · ‎02-19-2020

No, it does not matter to me that much; I just wanted to point out that the items you have listed, with this id, is not something that is typically 'scammed'. Diamonds, Gold, Expensive Designer cloths, handbags, Phones and Some other Electronics are probably the most sought after by scammers. Anything in that list that you cannot afford to 'lose' I would sell locally, cash upon pickup. Any type of electronic payment that can be reversed, including a credit card chargeback, could be susceptible to these folks.

manana_cookiekiller · ‎02-19-2020

Thank you for the advice, I had been looking at the fb market place and craigslist etc, we will see how that works out.
One of the item was worth 5 figures new, I had buy it now price set at about 10% of it's original price, and it was sold at the the starting bid price..... I was hoping to get more traffic with low price but it back fired as it attracted the wrong crowd I guess.

shepar58 · ‎02-20-2020

The scammers on here go after any and everything! Don't let anyone fool you. 10.00 or a 1000.00 someone will try to steal from you. These theives have no self respect they would steal a penny piece of used gum if they thought they could get away with it!

picknparley · ‎02-20-2020

FB Marketplace has it's own scammer problems just like here. In fact, some are falsely citing ebay services to help scam buyers on FB Marketplace. It's a rampant problem on all selling sites.

You do have the option of putting a reserve on your ebay auctions.

You might want to consider starting your auctions real close to what the least you'd take for the item.

You can also list them BIN with immediate payment.

charlesorvillewalters5 · ‎06-01-2020

Ebay is a scammers paradises for sure. You can put you don't take returns but that is worthless. All someone has to do is accuse you of selling a fake or a broken item, or even buy your item and return their same item as yours but theirs is broken and ebay will make you take the hit. they never help or take a hit but make you take the hit. This is why more and more ebay is nothing but a selling platform for junk that is someone complains they don't mind taking a hit on a dollars worth of junk. I have much better luck and help on etsy. A seller can not even leave neg feed back on a crook. A buyer can return a brick to you instead of what you sent and you have to suck it up, but you can not do anything about it. If one is smart they will only sell things under 100 dollars to not get scammed hard. If sellers could leave neg feed back on buyers it could stop some of this. But ebay has made this place a scammers dream. Also you get the kool aid drinkers here that will attack you for complaining about the scammers. Its your fault take the hit and shut up. Stop whining. bla bla bla. Makes me thing the scammers search out complaints on the community and hit them there also to gaslight them.

dhbookds · ‎06-01-2020

catalog mailing version of shoplifting........as said.......been around for a long time.........and now a hazard of on line selling.......

byrd69er · ‎06-01-2020

loose = my x-wife

prettywoman-2012 · ‎06-01-2020

@manana_cookiekiller wrote:
Hi,

This scam had been around for a long time, it was originated from the Chinese version of ebay called TAOBAO, I guess some buyers in the states are picking it up also .

Basically what they do, is:
1) buy something from you, make fast payment to lower your guard;
2) once they receive the package, they will request a return under " defect/does not match seller description" category, and take it to the ebay customer service no matter what you do/ask unless you refund immediately ---- By ebay policy, the seller will have to accept the return and pay for the return shipping fee;
3) they will keep the item, and return some cheap item of no value back to you --- the scam buyer gets to keep your item as well as a full refund . You the seller loose out on the item, have to pay out of pockets for the shipping fees on both trips.
4) if they know you have proof of what you sent out after taking it to the ebay customer service, they will then purposely break the item before sending it back and claim that's how it was delivered -- seller has to issue full refund ,loose out on shipping fees on both ways, scam buyer looses nothing.

It will then be up to the seller to prove what the scammer mailed back to you is NOT what you sold , and mailed to the scammer buyer. From what I have gathered, only successful cases of proving that is only if you have a continuous video showing the whole process of:

1)you showing the item in the condition mentioned in your listing;
2)you then pack it in front of a us postal service member and send it to the delivery service;
3)the delivery service take that package from you and put in their truck

All those plus when the seller receive the returned item:

4)you receiving the returned package while the mail man hand it to you ( to prove you didn't open the package and put other things inside)
5)you unpack the package and found out it's not the item , or item not in the condition you sent out .

So it will be nearly impossible for the case to be judged in favor of the seller. PS , pictures are not enough to be used as proof.

This is a very low risk scam, even if you have proof of the returned item being different from what you shipped, the scammers can easily argue "o, sorry I had so and so pack and ship it for me, he/she/it must have mixed it up with something else blablabla"

This scam had been circulating around in China for a long time from what I have read. I guess it had finally found it's way to Ebay and hit my little store this past week. Which is really a shame....

These scammers usually target the larger sellers as they are more likely to issue refund without asking questions. But once in a while individual sellers like me would be the victim also, as they know most small sellers don't have the time or the means to fight the case in ebay court .

I had been buying and selling stuff on ebay since 2003, never ran into a scammer till now. Guess I was too naive.... Hopefully my experience would help other small sellers avoid scammers like the one I encountered.

For now though, I think I will try to sell the more valuable things on facebook market place /craigslist etc to avoid being scammed again (hopefully). Have to say I lost quite a bit of faith today....

I am truly sorry to hear this happened to you - what a mess! This is one of the (many) reasons why I am leaving eBay come July. This place is so poorly managed, it is surreal. Sellers losing a lot of money due to scam Artists. And eBay provides zero help to most of us, despite having an impeccable record or having been here for decades. Now with Managed Payments and eBay demanding personal information and adding a 12.5% ADDITIONAL charge to the tax portion of what the buyer is paying (atop the payment processing fees), my desire to participate in this marketplace has gone to zilch.

I wish you the best of luck

PW

prettywoman-2012 · ‎06-01-2020

@luxgoods wrote:
This is the reason I will not sell high value items on Ebay. This platform has become a huge hunting ground for scammers. I have been burned twice by scammers when I sold a higher value item. Ebay talks about "seller Protection" which really does not exist. Ebay has created this scammer paradise and really has done nothing to change things. Like you, I would rather look elsewhere to sell my more expensive items.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with every word you wrote. Most eBay sellers will look at our posts in disbelief - until one day, they, too, wake up to one of the many types of fraud that is rampant on this site.

PW🐿

prettywoman-2012 · ‎06-01-2020

@kensgiftshop wrote:
@manana_cookiekiller wrote:
That's why you have to take the video with the usps worker present in the video, both for when you pack and send it out, and when you receive the returned package.

It doesn't matter who you have in the video, they won't take it as any proof.

Additionally, when the Post Office / UPS etc. office is PACKED with customers, who in his sane mind would hold up the line by trying to record a video of carefully closing, then taping a package on the counter - or the other way around, opening a package in front of a clerk? Takes some luck to find the USPS office empty so you are the only customer.

PW🤔🐿

prettywoman-2012 · ‎06-01-2020

@shepar58 wrote:
The scammers on here go after any and everything! Don't let anyone fool you. 10.00 or a 1000.00 someone will try to steal from you. These theives have no self respect they would steal a penny piece of used gum if they thought they could get away with it!

Which is why you need to report any and every case of buyer fraud to the FBI - they have a link for both domestic and international FRAUD and they do go after these crooks. It may not happen immediately, but eventually, they will be caught. As for international scammers: report them ALSO to the Interpol.

PW🐿

prettywoman-2012 · ‎06-01-2020

@shepar58 wrote:
Right! They dont even return the item and get a refund! Ebay promotes the theft and their is nothing we can do about it! I have had several where my item was not returned but still had to give a refund. If not Ebay, then PayPal or chargeback. So sick of the thieves here on Ebay. Been selling on another platform and am getting almost as many sales at 1/3 of the fees I pay here. In the 6 months O have sold there I have not had one false return or out right theft. Have been winding my items down here. Hope to be off here when my store subscription expires Oct! Ebay needs to stop promoting the theft from sellers!

This has been my experience, also - and even if the seller is only forced to issue a shipping label to the buyer on false INAD claim, it is already thievery. eBay should make it far more difficult for buyers to cheat sellers out of their money, IMO.

Interestingly, after hundreds and hundreds of sales on other platforms, I did not have a single return case... whereas here, buyer's remorse (which is fine with me) if often reported as INAD (which is NOT fine with me). No returns for ANY reason, elsewhere, after a decade of selling there, what does this tell you. There is also a much different communication process which actually allows intelligent conversations to take place, and does not literally shove it onto the buyer to open a return case, unless no resolution was reached. eBay very prominently placed that RETURN this item button on the buyer's Purchase History page, effectively DISCOURAGING civilized communication between the two parties. Then it made sure that the buyer can claim false INAD without repercussions.

Yes, we can report buyers for fraudulent claims, but what does that help, once the refund was forced on us, with the nice additional feature of issuing FREE shipping label, too, for the buyer?

As I said earlier, 99% of my buyers here have been awesome! The problem is that 1% who can run havoc in one's business (some are competitors, others have other motivations, like trying to find out your location or having some issues they need help with). That 1% is more than enough on eBay to completely ruin you, financially and otherwise. Which is technically, abuse. But the perhaps worst part of this is when you try to turn to eBay for help and notice the canned responses and zero help offered.

Best of luck to you

PW🐿

dss420 · ‎06-01-2020

I sent Ebay to the PA Attorney General's Office regarding a similar issue. It is now in the hans of the Attorney General and if necessary I will sue the **bleep** out of Ebay and the buyer.

echotech_equipment · ‎06-01-2020

eBay's policy of the buyer is always right and mandatory refunds for items not received have generated an entirely new class of criminal. So far, in the last 60 days, I am out nearly $500. What happens where there are no more sellers? https://frankonfraud.com/fraud-trends/professional-refunders-are-friendly-fraud-hitmen-for-hire/