Return Loopholes

[expertbattery]

We recently have a return open with a buyer that is a seller as well. Knowing eBay's return policy and its loopholes, the buyer opened a return indicatating "Wrong item sent" which would automatically require the seller to provide a return shipping label. The correct return should be "Ordered by mistake" with the buyer covering return shipping for a full refund. The buyer was asked to provide us with photos of the item received and the photos provided clearly shows the correct item. The buyer continued through messaging that the item purchased was not the correct dimensions he needed and the item they purchased was too small. We provide dimensions of the items in the the main photo along with dimensions in the listing description to ensure accuracy. We do not mind covering returns if incorrect items are shipped and we always try to rectify this with our buyers. However, based off of principle, we hold other sellers at a higher standard as we all face the changes eBay makes. Knowing the policies and abusing the policies just rubs us the wrong way. 

[reallynicestamps]

Sellers are going to have to take a deep breath and decide that ALL future refund requests are going to be 'not as described' and that the seller will have to refund.

But.

You don't have to pay for the return.

You can let the buyer keep the item and refund.

Or

You can pay for the return shipping and refund him.

 You can refuse returns. That remains your right.

You cannot refuse refunds. There is no change there.

And if you refuse refunds and the buyer returns the item anyway, you refund.

Like I say, take a deep breath.

This is the 'new normal'.

It's business, not personal.

You  may want to start adding a few pennies to the Virtual Cookie Jar for every sale, to cover the cost of the occasional refund.

The number of pennies will vary depending on the percentage of your failed transactions.

[psalms*22]

---

@reallynicestamps wrote:

Sellers are going to have to take a deep breath and decide that ALL future refund requests are going to be 'not as described' and that the seller will have to refund.

But.

You don't have to pay for the return.

You can let the buyer keep the item and refund.

Or

You can pay for the return shipping and refund him.

 You can refuse returns. That remains your right.

You cannot refuse refunds. There is no change there.

And if you refuse refunds and the buyer returns the item anyway, you refund.

Like I say, take a deep breath.

This is the 'new normal'.

It's business, not personal.

You  may want to start adding a few pennies to the Virtual Cookie Jar for every sale, to cover the cost of the occasional refund.

The number of pennies will vary depending on the percentage of your failed transactions.

---

Been seeing this baloney everywhere - In my humble opinion and though there may be a modicum of truth to the post, what I see is advice thats simply telling people to take it and like it - No offense, but It reads like an intercom pill time call from "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" - It's like there is an attempted brainwashing going on by all the posts that I see just like the one I am replying to - and they all hinge on that same quote we've all been seeing or hearing for some time.... You all know it.... "Its the cost of doing business online".

Hmmmm...Well what about the cost of doing business for the Venue Owner?? - Those that create and perpetuate the policies/problems we see that leads to the unfair, disregard the op is going through - I ask again!

WHAT ABOUT THE COST OF DOING BUSINESS  FOR THE VENUE OPERATOR?!?!?

They pour all their energy into creating ways to take less and less responsibility for thier policies and the marketplace problems that come from them and shove them off on their customers - tell me what company ever stuck around for the long term with a mode of operation like that?

Someone will always suffer for the problems either created or ignored on this venue - And by the current mode of owner operation it will be the customer...YES THE PAYING CUSTOMER will always be the one to suffer here, while the venue owners turn a blind eye and pocket more money on the methods they created to take take less responsibility.

All the while the site continues to degrade - turning into a glitch ridden money pit, falling apart at the seams - the only ingenuity I can see is the way they come up with new ideas to pull money out of our back pockets while we are not looking. You might think they could, at least, take some of that money they are pocketing to fix the the site - But no -  Its like every other day we see some new fantastic glitch or useless update that just boggles the mind - No what we actually see is more fee increases and less reason...

So when will the Venue Owners actually start practicing what they preach?...

And OP its OK to be upset over this and to try to take steps to protect yourself and fight if you feel you should take a stand - We were scammed about 2 years ago and since then, we have fought and taken steps to protect ourselves and we have not been scammed since(though some have tried) - and that is because WE DID NOT JUST ROLLOVER!

[bigdeals.etc]

Yup, I agree and continue to still be annoyed at this thinking. I have already, and will continue to raise prices to cover for these "costs of doing business." The only thing I hope is that every seller also wise up and do the same. We can't allow ebay to brainwash us to "keep prices low" and continue to provide over the top customer service like free returns. Otherwise it'll continue to be a race to the bottom until all sellers go broke and quit.

[gracieallen01]

The one that gets me is the, "It's just business - it's nothing personal".

Of course, it's just business, when it happens to someone else.

In my opinion, the site is successfully morphing to the ebay ideal, by sellers adapting to the program, one hoop at a time.

[ted_200]

---

@expertbattery wrote:

We recently have a return open with a buyer that is a seller as well. Knowing eBay's return policy and its loopholes, the buyer opened a return indicatating "Wrong item sent" which would automatically require the seller to provide a return shipping label. The correct return should be "Ordered by mistake" with the buyer covering return shipping for a full refund. The buyer was asked to provide us with photos of the item received and the photos provided clearly shows the correct item. The buyer continued through messaging that the item purchased was not the correct dimensions he needed and the item they purchased was too small. We provide dimensions of the items in the the main photo along with dimensions in the listing description to ensure accuracy. We do not mind covering returns if incorrect items are shipped and we always try to rectify this with our buyers. However, based off of principle, we hold other sellers at a higher standard as we all face the changes eBay makes. Knowing the policies and abusing the policies just rubs us the wrong way. 

---

I assume you know this because they're buying and selling on the same ID?  That is pretty much the baseline profile of my typical bad buyer.  Maybe 5% of all my buyers, and half my headaches.   

They know the way the system works, they'll get a free return label,  and as a seller they know there is no way for you to win a SNAD claim. 

As an added bonus, you'll get a mark counted on your Selling Metrics for a SNAD, and if you go too far beyond your "peer benchmark", they're going to add on another 4% to whatever FVF % you're paying now (9.15% FVF will become 13.15%).  If they're selling the same items they bought from you, you're a competitor, and running your FVF up can give them a competitive advantage over you.

[expertbattery]

Thank you for your input. Yes, the buyer mentioned to us that they were a seller. It just irks me when they rub it in knowing that we are unable to do anything about it. This was the buyer's message: 

"You are taking things way too personal and people like you make e-commerce is unpleasant. If a buyer is misled or information is not enough to make the right decision, the seller should cooperate not insist and insist on things just to avoid losing couple bucks. I will never buy from you again because there are hundreds of other seller that appreciate honesty and don’t keep insisting on minor issues just to argue for no point. I sell items very expensive and have some returns too. Its normal."

I agree with the buyer. If insufficient information is provided, the seller should be responsible for the return. However, our listing 142479215370 includes all of the dimensions of the item along with parts that the item replaces. Dimensions are provided in the photo and the listing description to ensure that there are no mistakes made.  Again we do not mind returns. We understand that some items may be defective upon arrival and will cover all return costs/send buyers replacements or refunds (which ever they prefer). We also do not mind buyers returning items within our return window for a full refund and sometimes extend that return window. However, when a SNAD is opened and the buyer clearly shows that they received the correct item, it should be their responsibility to return the item at their cost. This is not Amazon Prime, it's eBay. We will provide a full refund once the item is returned new and unused. "The cost of doing business" is not an explaination as to why abuse of the policy should always fly under the radar. 

Thanks for the support. 

[luckythewinner]

---

We were scammed about 2 years ago and since then, we have fought and taken steps to protect ourselves and we have not been scammed since(though some have tried) - and that is because WE DID NOT JUST ROLLOVER!

---

So it sounds like you are the perfect person to offer different advice to the OP. You have taken steps to protect yourself, and have succeeded in preventing all subsequent scams.

Maybe it would be more helpful to share that advice with the OP and explain the steps you took, rather than just criticizing everyone else who tried to offer advice.

[eddy92009]

So, a completely new Seller loophole exploited by China sellers:

1. I purchased and paid for a product.
2. Seller ships the wrong product from China, where shipping is subsidized by government.
3. When wrong product is received by me, I contact seller to indicate wrong item sent.
4. Seller immediately offers wrong product for a lower price and says they'll ship the correct one next time.
5. I didn't need the wrong product & request they resolve at their cost.
6. Seller goes quiet knowing I'll have to pay shipping back to China for approximately $11 in shipping (not worth it, IMO).

Ebay continues to rule these disputes in favor of the seller, cause the loophole is legal in Ebay's opinion.  BE WARY OF BUYING FROM EBAY!!  CLASSIC BAIT & SWITCH!! 

No tricks like old tricks.  It might cost a few more $$, but I'm sticking with Amazon.

[dhbookds]

---

@eddy92009 wrote:

So, a completely new Seller loophole exploited by China sellers:

1. I purchased and paid for a product.
2. Seller ships the wrong product from China, where shipping is subsidized by government.
3. When wrong product is received by me, I contact seller to indicate wrong item sent.
4. Seller immediately offers wrong product for a lower price and says they'll ship the correct one next time.
5. I didn't need the wrong product & request they resolve at their cost.
6. Seller goes quiet knowing I'll have to pay shipping back to China for approximately $11 in shipping (not worth it, IMO).

Ebay continues to rule these disputes in favor of the seller, cause the loophole is legal in Ebay's opinion.  BE WARY OF BUYING FROM EBAY!!  CLASSIC BAIT & SWITCH!! 

No tricks like old tricks.  It might cost a few more $$, but I'm sticking with Amazon.

---

If it's the wrong item and you file a Snad claim........you don't have to pay for return shipping........

[sam9876]

"Seller goes quiet knowing I'll have to pay shipping back to China for approximately $11 in shipping (not worth it, IMO)."

The seller is required to pay for return shipping in a SNAD case.

[smileytown18]

My sympathies. not fun

[gracieallen01]

How does the seller in China send a return label?

Is it like a US seller sending money to Europe for an International return?

[sam9876]

A Chinese seller would be required to Send money to pay for the return postage.

[gracieallen01]

Has that ever actually happened?