Removed item "offensive" double-standard

[chrisfab45]

Hi,

I've been an eBay member for about 2 decades, in good standing.  I mostly buy, on eBay, but sometimes I sell items.  I recently listed a very old, vintage matchbook that most-accurately can be categorized as; 'Black Americana'.  The matchbook was an advertisement for a no-longer-existing restaurant. 

I didn't create this matchbook.  Whoever did, is -now, long-gone.

On the matchbook's front cover, there was a drawing of an African male's face, with an exaggerated facial feature.  The matchsticks, inside of the matchbook, had drawings of African males' faces. 

I placed the matchbook onto eBay, as an auction.

The auction took-off -fast, with multiple bids, within just a few days.

This past day, however; eBay removed that matchbook listing, claiming that the listing violated an eBay policy, regarding offensive, racist items, along with items that perpetuate stereotypes.

As racist-looking as that matchbook may be perceived, that matchbook is -still, a part of American History.  What is eBay doing, then, passing moral judgment onto me by removing my listing for the reasons that they stated, which insinuate that my intent was to perpetuate racism, or stereotypes, and that the intent of the bidders, was racism? 

Whatever happened to; 'If we don't learn from history, we're bound to repeat it'? 

If that statement is true, then why is history being erased?

I'm an Italian Catholic.  Maybe I'm "offended" by 'Mafia' movie memorabilia, that eBay allows to be sold on their site.  I could say that those items are perpetuating a stereotype of Italians being Mafia mobsters. 

What about the 'My Buddy Jesus' items that eBay allows to be sold on their site?  My being Catholic, I'm offended by that. 

eBay also allows Atheist tee-shirts to be sold on their site, which mock people of faith.  I'm offended by that.

Does eBay want to go down this road?  It's a slippery slope, because there will always be 'someone' who is offended by 'something', regardless of how many items eBay tries to ban.

In my opinion, eBay, you've folded like a house of cards, caving-in to political pressure.  'That' offends me.  Editing of free speech offends me. 

Erasing history offends me.  Double standards offend me.

Do you care?  Apparently, no.

[oldwestgold]

Yet we do not hear a peep about the Chinese that were brought over during the California Gold Rush period. Girls as young as 10 were sold into being sex slaves and the elders and males were sold to slave in the goldfields. I love how Californians ignore this part of their dark history.

[oldwestgold]

Could you define "racist imagery"? That's wide-open for debate and personal interpretation. Two women holding hands walking down the road could be offensive, etc. 

[bonjourami]

"Yet we do not hear a peep about the Chinese that were brought over during the California Gold Rush period. Girls as young as 10 were sold into being sex slaves and the elders and males were sold to slave in the goldfields. I love how Californians ignore this part of their dark history."

Not sure what that has to do with selling for profit an offensive item that ridicules,and stereotypes a facial feature of a minority on matchsticks..but ok.

[1tuna]

racist imagery is pretty easy to look for if you know how.I have been in the watch business a long time and know the clock people also.there has been a thriving business using cheap old windup alarm clocks with zeroxed watermelon faces on them.Its just manufactured stuff meant to decieve and cash in at the same time.Most of it is just fantasy items that were never made but are retrofits with new/made to look old paper dials.

people take a junker $5 big ben and paste on some racial imagery,everyone loses when this happens

[bonjourami]

Yes..its called anything to make a buck.

[funkyfreshmike.2013]

Ebay's site, Ebay's rules.

There's nothing we can do.

I remember a time going to parties and telling all types of ethnic jokes. I made sure to offend every person at the table. Everyone laughed their heads off!  No one was offended. the good ole days! Now i keep my mouth shut and tell my boomer jokes.

If you're offended by anything you see on the site you should report it, but i get what you're saying. I don't report anything as i'm not offended by anything...

[luckythewinner]

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@oldwestgold wrote:

Could you define "racist imagery"? That's wide-open for debate and personal interpretation.

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eBay's definition  is clearly not up for debate or personal interpretation.

They are not obligated to debate you, or to pay attention to your personal interpretation.

If you want a website that honors your personal interpretation of what is offensive, you are free to start one.

[luckythewinner]

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@funkyfreshmike.2013 wrote:

Now i keep my mouth shut and tell my boomer jokes.

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As a boomer, I am offended by that 🙂

[carolynnq]

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@chrisfab45 wrote:

...eBay, your listing policy is just thinly-veiled virtue-signaling, in my opinion, but I know that I'm talking to a wall.

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It is. I had a postcard from the 1930s listed that had a photo of Franco and Hitler talking to each other on the front. I knew there were issues with listing Nazi items so I read and reread all of the rules for what was acceptable and what was not. You could list books, magazines, etc. with photos of Hitler as long as they didn't glorify Hitler.

The postcard was put out by some anti-fascist league. On the back, were instructions to mail the postcard to your US congressman requesting that the US not fund Franco. My title clearly listed that it was anti-fascist. It was listed for a couple of weeks. Then the Charlottesville demonstrations happened and it was taken down.

There's your virtue signaling.

I complained about this on the powersellers board and an eBay rep said postcard like mine would be no longer allowed. Someone then asked him about a comic book that had a cover with a cartoon superhero punching Hitler in the face and, unbelievingly, the eBay rep said that shouldn't be listed.

[donsdetour]

well back to all of this.

It is eBays site and they can an will restrict items.  Politics of course play into this.  If organised resitance it can and will run of purchasers. This I can understand ebays position.

That said any item can and will offend some one. Should we get rid of everything??

Were to start and were to end??

There is and has always been the problem with banning items that may be offensive.

[lilbama911]

Even if I spoon fed you all the reasons why Jim Crow Laws,  Black Americana, Black Memorabilia, Black Face Collectibles, Black Art or whatever its called, represents the dehumanization and disenfranchising of the American Negro in America, and is thus racist material, you would not believe me.

As you commented, and I quote, "I placed the matchbook onto eBay, as an auction.  The auction took-off -fast, with multiple bids, within just a few days".

Therefore, do you think a person should profit from racist and offensive material that dehumanized a group of people?

[dbfolks166mt]

Have to 100% agree with gracieallen01 on this one. While I never saw the match book and I am assuming neither did anyone else, those that chose to form an opinion based on no visual evidence have a hollow argument. To one person it is offensive to another it is art.  There is NOTHING and I mean NOTHING that does not offend somebody and/or some organization. Everybody has and is entitled to an opinion. There are postings for books and movies on eBay, Huckleberry Finn, Gone With the Wind that people find offensive. There are listings for Natzi WW II materials and artifacts that a LOT of people find offensive. The whole art world offends some segment of the population with every picture or painting produced. Animal traps, furs and animal parts offend PETA, the list is endless. If eBay took down every post that offended somebody there would be NOTHING listed on the site. 

     Racism, sexism, genderism flows both ways and has since the advent of time. Anyone who thinks otherwise is blinded by their own self centered view. 

[bonjourami]

We have the ops description of the matchbook, is that not enough for you? A hollow argument? Really?

'On the matchbook's front cover, there was a drawing of an African male's face, with an exaggerated facial feature.  The matchsticks, inside of the matchbook, had drawings of African males' faces. "

[dbfolks166mt]

Your looking at a small picture if you are narrowing this to just black Americans which in itself is a bias towards Americans in general. Bottom line this is human nature you may want to read a paper called Destruction and Creation written by John Boyd in the 1970's. It opens with the following. 

Studies of human behavior reveal that the actions we undertake as individuals are closely related to survival, more importantly, survival on our own terms. Naturally, such a notion implies that we should be able to act
relatively free or independent of any debilitating external influences—otherwise that very survival might be in jeopardy. In viewing the instinct for survival in this manner we imply that a basic aim or goal, as individuals, is to
improve our capacity for independent action. The degree to which we cooperate, or compete, with others is driven by the need to satisfy this basic goal. If we believe that it is not possible to satisfy it alone, without help
from others, history shows us that we will agree to constraints upon our independent action—in order to collectively pool skills and talents in the form of nations, corporations, labor unions, mafias, etc. —so that obstacles standing in the way of the basic goal can either be removed or overcome. On the other hand, if the group cannot or does not attempt to overcome obstacles deemed important to many (or possibly any) of its individual members, the group must risk losing these alienated members. Under these circumstances, the
alienated members may dissolve their relationship and remain independent, form a group of their own, or join another collective body in order to improve their capacity for independent action.
    In a real world of limited resources and skills, individuals and groups form, dissolve and reform their cooperative or competitive postures in a continuous struggle to remove or overcome physical and social environmental obstacles.;................

[dbfolks166mt]

As others have mentioned "offensive" is in the eyes of the beholder.