Removed item "offensive" double-standard

[chrisfab45]

Hi,

I've been an eBay member for about 2 decades, in good standing.  I mostly buy, on eBay, but sometimes I sell items.  I recently listed a very old, vintage matchbook that most-accurately can be categorized as; 'Black Americana'.  The matchbook was an advertisement for a no-longer-existing restaurant. 

I didn't create this matchbook.  Whoever did, is -now, long-gone.

On the matchbook's front cover, there was a drawing of an African male's face, with an exaggerated facial feature.  The matchsticks, inside of the matchbook, had drawings of African males' faces. 

I placed the matchbook onto eBay, as an auction.

The auction took-off -fast, with multiple bids, within just a few days.

This past day, however; eBay removed that matchbook listing, claiming that the listing violated an eBay policy, regarding offensive, racist items, along with items that perpetuate stereotypes.

As racist-looking as that matchbook may be perceived, that matchbook is -still, a part of American History.  What is eBay doing, then, passing moral judgment onto me by removing my listing for the reasons that they stated, which insinuate that my intent was to perpetuate racism, or stereotypes, and that the intent of the bidders, was racism? 

Whatever happened to; 'If we don't learn from history, we're bound to repeat it'? 

If that statement is true, then why is history being erased?

I'm an Italian Catholic.  Maybe I'm "offended" by 'Mafia' movie memorabilia, that eBay allows to be sold on their site.  I could say that those items are perpetuating a stereotype of Italians being Mafia mobsters. 

What about the 'My Buddy Jesus' items that eBay allows to be sold on their site?  My being Catholic, I'm offended by that. 

eBay also allows Atheist tee-shirts to be sold on their site, which mock people of faith.  I'm offended by that.

Does eBay want to go down this road?  It's a slippery slope, because there will always be 'someone' who is offended by 'something', regardless of how many items eBay tries to ban.

In my opinion, eBay, you've folded like a house of cards, caving-in to political pressure.  'That' offends me.  Editing of free speech offends me. 

Erasing history offends me.  Double standards offend me.

Do you care?  Apparently, no.

[chrisfab45]

Just for the record; I was a first responder to the WTC, on 9/11/01.  I tried saving people, regardless of their race or religion, and I was almost killed, doing so. 

I ended up with 9/11-related PTSD and 9/11-related cancer. 

So much for my racist intent with my listing.

...eBay, your listing policy is just thinly-veiled virtue-signaling, in my opinion, but I know that I'm talking to a wall.

[pburn]

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@chrisfab45 wrote:

On the matchbook's front cover, there was a drawing of an African male's face, with an exaggerated facial feature.  The matchsticks, inside of the matchbook, had drawings of African males' faces. 

Erasing history offends me.

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Erasing history offends me, too, but eBay not allowing sellers to list items that mock and degrade and dehumanize a segment of America's population that is striving to achieve some sense of equality and respect and find a voice in a country after experiencing two hundred years of the kind of humiliation depicted on that matchbook and those matches you aren't allowed to sell can hardly be considered "erasing history."

This whole "erasing history" straw man is an insult to all of us, IMO. You want to sell an autobiography of Malcom X or Martin Luther King, Jr., have at it. But the kind of item you describe? That's not history, that's trash. Throw it away.

P.S. "Free speech" applies to government suppression of speech, not a corporation's.

[chrisfab45]

If erasing history is a straw man, please tell that to Holocaust museums.  I doubt that they think their collections of Nazi memorabilia are 'trash'.  Instead, it's looked at as being an important lesson.

That matchbook is part of a lesson.  Back when it was made, nothing about it was seen as being wrong.  It shows younger generations; 'Look at what can happen.' 

If younger generations are ignorant about history, because Confederate statues are being toppled over, etc., then how are they going to be able prevent bad things -that occurred in the past, from happening, again?   Knowledge is power.

[pburn]

I stated I do not believe in erasing history: my point was that eBay not allowing you to sell a racially offensive matchbook does not even come close to qualifying as "erasing history." If you can't discern the difference between the Holocaust Museum and eBay not letting sellers list matchbooks with offensive negative stereotypes of black Americans on them, I'm afraid I can't help you. 

Unless you plan to accompany that matchbook with some sort of treatise aimed at educating the younger generations on the evils of dehumanizing and marginalizing an entire segment of the population, your argument is pretty hollow. I'm about 99.9% sure your intention in listing that item on eBay was not to teach younger generations "Look what can happen." 

And, again, if you can't understand that venerating Confederate military officers with statues in the town square--many of which were erected in the late 19th century when Jim Crow laws were being passed and during the 1950s--might have less to do with preserving history and more to do with intimidating members of the civil rights movement, then you and I have learned a different history. 

As a 9/11 first responder, what would your reaction be to erecting a statue of every terrorist involved in that horror in a memorial park in NYC? Would that be teaching the younger generation "look what can happen?" Would you support that as an expression of "[being] able [to] prevent bad things -that occurred in the past, from happening, again?" Would having statues of those terrorists on the lawn in front of the Pentagon teach the younger generation something? How about calendars with a different terrorist's face on each month? What lesson could the younger generation draw from that? Or maybe on the backs of playing cards?

Sometimes we don't see the damage these symbols can do to someone else until we bring that right home and see what damage could be done to us. For black Americans, it might be statues of Confederate military officers or matchbooks with exaggerated black human faces on them. For you, it might be statues of terrorists or a wall calendar. For me? Well, I'd have my vulnerabilities as well.

[ma-647837]

There was an announcement recently, Offensive Item Policy. If the policy was so offensive, why not just put it down?

[coolections]

Where have you been for the last year or so ? Riots, looting, tearing down statues of U.S. history across the country, removing Aunt Jemima syrup labels, banning confederate flags, renaming football teams, kneeling for the flag etc. The list goes on and on. Ebay must follow what many people believe to be offensive weather true or not. Don't take it personally as everyone is stuck in this situation.

[gracieallen01]

***** General Reply *****

I sincerely wish that even ONE person could name ONE thing that would NOT be offensive to someone, somewhere - let alone to a group of people, somewhere. 

'Offensive' is promoted - 'Tolerance' is demoted.

[pburn]

@gracieallen01 

Yes, you're right. Everyone is offended by something. 

• Fat jokes.
• Blonde jokes.
• Erotic art.
• Nudity in films.
• Spitting on the sidewalk.
• Public displays of affection.
• Swearing.
• Music lyrics.
• Twerking.
• Wearing stripes and plaids together.
• Animal cruelty.
• Global warming.

Add whatever you want to that list.

Do you really think that the systemic racism that has been in play in this country for decade after decade is just someone being offended by something? Do you really think black Americans just feel insulted or have had their feelings hurt? Do you think that's what the civil rights movement has been and is about? Someone being "offended?" You think that's what this is all about?

Oh, my goodness. There's a lot of work to do.

[gracieallen01]

@pburn 

Now, did I specify a particular subject?   Is race any more important than nationalism or religion or education or animals or sex or living without fear of being burned out by somebody that wants their way - and you're in it?

I seem to notice, at almost every turn of the road, that when one group - any group - obtains 'equality', or just their demands, they seem to feel they are better than others, as they are the 'winner', so to speak. 

[pburn]

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@gracieallen01 wrote:

I seem to notice, at almost every turn of the road, that when one group - any group - obtains 'equality', or just their demands, they seem to feel they are better than others, as they are the 'winner', so to speak. 

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So you're suggesting black Americans--since that's the topic up for discussion--should not "obtain equality" because they'll feel better than "others"--and by that I assume you mean whites? Is that what your comment means?

I'd say you're sailing pretty close to the wind with that one.

[powell-memorabilia]

I get it - there is absolutely a double-standard.  However, that double standard isn't eBay's doing - the eBay policies are a reflection of broader community standards.  So, if you don't like the eBay policy, blame it on all of us.  Personally, I'd be careful to not sell anything that is purposefully offensive, but that is just me.  No, I don't like eBay dictating what is offensive and what isn't.  

[corvettestainless]

I think we just have to revert back to 'it's their playground, they own the sand and make the rules'.

It's a business, an autocratic one as is most businesses, so it really don't matter what anyone's "opinion" is about what they do and do not allow to be sold. 

Besides, I too am Italian Catholic, family from NY and some were in the mob. I like mob movies, so please leave them right where I can find them when I want one. Thanks for your patronage. 

We will now take you back to our regularly scheduled programming.........

[gracieallen01]

@pburn 

No, if I were suggesting anything, I would suggest that with equality, it isn't only having things and rights, but also responsibilites.

And, that goes for ANY cause.

[pburn]

I think it's pretty clear from your posted comments where you stand.