Refund failed - apparently new issue with issuing Ebay refunds FYI!

[kakorsm]

I just had a harrowing few hours because I tried to issue a refund to a buyer and couldn't! I had to contact Paypal and Ebay customer service to get it straightened out and I'm appalled at what's going on here.

So I tried to do the cancellation and refund automatically through Ebay like I always do, no issues. I find out later "refund failed," no explanation. I tried to issue the refund through PayPal to see if that would work, it said I had to add money to my wallet rather than use my bank balance (which I do for everything, no issue). I contacted Paypal support and they said Ebay had recently changed something so that you can't issue refunds through them using bank accounts, because of a scam issue. That made sense, so I tried to contact Ebay customer support chat to confirm if this was true. I got a very unhelpful and hard to understand response, which included this:

"Well just want to inform you that we are not tied with PayPal and we do not chacnge policies for the refund process, and actually we do not have any access on your payment we are just market place but for payments and refunds, it will be PayPal who will handle this concerns as you can see on Ebay site that the cancelation was done but for the refunds, it will be PayPal."

That seemed to say the exact opposite, and that it was PayPal's responsibility to issue the refund, though would not say what PayPal said wasn't true. So I contacted PayPal support again to figure out what was going on.

PayPal was AMAZING! They gave me a clear answer:

"In November, eBay changed the how sales tax was collected on sales. Previously they would charge the buyer through a separate transaction which led to a lot of confusion for buyers. They then changed it, to where the sales tax comes through with the payment to the seller, then they pull the amount of sales tax collected. When this change was made it caused the change with how a refund can be issued to balance only."

Why, I ask, will Ebay not say this, or anything even close to this, if only to inform me what I need to do and what I need to do in the future???

Anyway, the problem here is that it takes 3-5 business days to transfer money from your bank account to your Paypal wallet. This is just barely if not outside Ebay's window to issue a refund to a buyer (and I probably already lost a couple days not realizing my refund had failed). So unless you happen to have money in your Paypal balance at all times - who does? - or basically at the right time to issue the refund, you're screwed. I told Paypal about this issue, and they very helpfully issued a temporary credit so that I could refund the buyer (and they would take back the money out of my account in a week's time). Then the wonderful associate took the time to answer a few more questions I had, including if it was possible to "keep" money in my PayPal wallet for Ebay refunds, since this is apparently going to be a thing. Unfortunately it's not, because if you have any sort of recurring payment set up (like a subscription), it will use your Paypal balance first, then bank, and you can't change that. So I guess Paypal is a bit at fault there, but that at least makes sense. You can, however, go in and set your preferred payment method to bank first, balance second, so there's a better chance of having the money available if you need to issue a refund, so I did that.

This is a big problem, though, Ebay! Sellers basically just have to hope they happen to have enough money in their PayPal balance to cover the refund, within the 5 day timeframe they have to issue it. There's no way to "insure," or keep some money for that purpose. I don't understand the intricacies of the taxes that made this change apparently necessary for Ebay, but something needs to change. The obvious thing would be to extend the refund window to acomodate the time it takes to go into Paypal and transfer money from your bank. I don't see any other way of reliably getting money into your Wallet, except to ask a friend to send you the money, but I don't think that's always instantly available either, although in my experience it is - that's kind of annoying you can get money transferred to you instantly but you have to wait a few days to get your OWN money from the bank - and who wants to do that every time? It's completely unacceptable the way it is currently. I as a seller want to do the right thing, but am physically prevented from doing it. That's not right. Thoughts, everyone? Way to make Ebay take notice?

[dhbookds]

! Sellers basically just have to hope they happen to have enough money in their PayPal balance to cover the refund, within the 5 day timeframe they have to issue it. There's no way to "insure," or keep some money for that purpose.

Sure there is a way:  just keep enough $$$ in the paypal account to cover refunds.......

[kakorsm]

I explained in the post that's impossible if you have any sort of subscription or recurring bill through Paypal, which a lot of people do, because it will always use your balance first and there's no way to change that.

For example if you have any sort of app you pay monthly or something for, that's a recurring payment through Paypal. 

[1tuna]

I am not sure what the difference is with a wallet and a paypal account,it does not matter to me.I do not like to let my paypal balance go below 800,it has nothing to do with automatic subscriptions,it has everything to do with having enough money in your paypal account.

This problem is not new,its been around since last year.It cropped up when all the state tax stuff was getting people upset.Basically it just boils down to them keeping the 2.9 percent fee and thats that..we will all have to make adjustments this year.It can be a pain learning new ways to get tripped up with a simple refund.I am sure you will be able to handle it smoothly.The paypal agent did you a nice favor with advancing a credit,so in the end it has worked out

[dhbookds]

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@kakorsm wrote:

I explained in the post that's impossible if you have any sort of subscription or recurring bill through Paypal, which a lot of people do, because it will always use your balance first and there's no way to change that.

For example if you have any sort of app you pay monthly or something for, that's a recurring payment through Paypal. 

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Sorry, I don't understand......So what prevents you from keeping enough for both in the account?

[luckythewinner]

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@kakorsm wrote:

This is a big problem, though, Ebay! Sellers basically just have to hope they happen to have enough money in their PayPal balance to cover the refund

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This is not a problem for sellers who keep a balance in their PayPal account,  the  same way a store keeps a balance in the cash register. There is no "hope" involved when it comes to my PayPal account. 

[ahermitforhire]

Sounds like you deal with a lot more returns than most of us if you keep money around PayPal just to deal with that.

Personally, I prefer having my money in an interest earning FDIC insured bank account instead of in PayPal.

[vrie39]

This is another reason why I used to keep a pretty sizable balance in my paypal account, even long before the changes you speak of I never had a problem issuing refunds but those folks who instantly transfer their money out would always have to refill their balance some kind of way... And it can take days to transfer the money back to paypal and in that time the buyer might escalate and then the seller gets a defect plus a negative paypal balance and maybe some sort of overdraft fee, no... No, thank you. 

Easier to keep the money in paypal until I am 100% sure the sale is free and clear of all returns and such.

[luckythewinner]

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@ahermitforhire wrote:

Sounds like you deal with a lot more returns than most of us if you keep money around PayPal just to deal with that. Personally, I prefer having my money in an interest earning FDIC insured bank account instead of in PayPal.

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Your assumption could not be further from the truth. I haven't had a return in three years. And the only refunds I have made over that period are a couple of lost packages.

But the fact that I do not have any returns does not stop me from taking the prudent step of keeping a small float in my PayPal account to cover my monthly eBay invoices and the possibility of a refund.

And since my average sale is in the $5 - $25 range, an extra $50 or $100 is all it takes.

[kakorsm]

I would have to go through every single thing I have a subscription to or a recurring payment on, figure out when it would be taken out (sometimes they're not at regular dates) and make sure I have enough money at that time to cover that AND add more money on the off chance I have to refund for a buyer-requested cancellation or a lost package. That's ridiculous.

[kakorsm]

What's annoying is I didn't hear about this at all, Ebay obviously didn't send any sort of notification of this change, or buried it in fine print. Obviously this is the first time I've had a cancellation since this change happened, so it's not an issue of it happening a lot, just when it does, I don't have a balance. It's never been necessary before because once you add your bank, it just goes straight in and out. I respect what you're saying but I don't want to tie up $100 in my paypal, which is what I'd need to cover emergencies and MAYBE all the "recurring" payments I have that used to just come out of my bank account, but would come out of my Wallet if I had money sitting in it. This wouldn't be a problem if Ebay just changed the number of days they require you to issue the refund in. 5 days is not enough time to talk to the buyer and get the transfer from your bank done and refunded, esp if there's a non-business day in there. Honestly 7 or 8 would probably be fine!

[slippinjimmy]

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@ahermitforhire wrote:

Sounds like you deal with a lot more returns than most of us if you keep money around PayPal just to deal with that.

Personally, I prefer having my money in an interest earning FDIC insured bank account instead of in PayPal.

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Your highest priced item currently is $15, looks like your average sale value is about $20 except for the rare one that is higher priced.

How much interest would you lose by keeping $20 - $30 in your PayPal account at all times?

[chapeau-noir]

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@slippinjimmy wrote:

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@ahermitforhire wrote:

Sounds like you deal with a lot more returns than most of us if you keep money around PayPal just to deal with that.

Personally, I prefer having my money in an interest earning FDIC insured bank account instead of in PayPal.

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Your highest priced item currently is $15, looks like your average sale value is about $20 except for the rare one that is higher priced.

How much interest would you lose by keeping $20 - $30 in your PayPal account at all times?

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Particularly at the 0.05% - 0.6% they're earning right now.  😭  

[mam98031]

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@kakorsm wrote:
What's annoying is I didn't hear about this at all, Ebay obviously didn't send any sort of notification of this change, or buried it in fine print. Obviously this is the first time I've had a cancellation since this change happened, so it's not an issue of it happening a lot, just when it does, I don't have a balance. It's never been necessary before because once you add your bank, it just goes straight in and out. I respect what you're saying but I don't want to tie up $100 in my paypal, which is what I'd need to cover emergencies and MAYBE all the "recurring" payments I have that used to just come out of my bank account, but would come out of my Wallet if I had money sitting in it. This wouldn't be a problem if Ebay just changed the number of days they require you to issue the refund in. 5 days is not enough time to talk to the buyer and get the transfer from your bank done and refunded, esp if there's a non-business day in there. Honestly 7 or 8 would probably be fine!

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Ebay didn't send out anything on this because it wasn't Ebay that has the issue, your problem is with PP.  Ebay had nothing to do with it.  If you don't have enough money in your PP account to cover a refund you are trying to process it goes to pending until the money from your bank transfers in to cover it.  That is all about PP and has nothing to do with Ebay no matter what PP told you.

You should be able to cut the time down that it takes PP to pull from your checking account.  Go to your account settings and make sure you have your bank account confirmed.  It it isn't, get it confirmed and it can shorten this funding window.

As to the sales tax.  That is a completely separate subject and has nothing to do with if you had the money in your PP account to fund a refund to your buyer.

[cynthealee2]

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@kakorsm wrote:
I would have to go through every single thing I have a subscription to or a recurring payment on, figure out when it would be taken out (sometimes they're not at regular dates) and make sure I have enough money at that time to cover that AND add more money on the off chance I have to refund for a buyer-requested cancellation or a lost package. That's ridiculous.

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OR

You could and SHOULD have had separate PayPal accounts ... One for Business and one for personal.