Really frustrated with all the fake navajo jewelry that's flooding the place.

[handbanino]

I've seen discussions on here about this already where usually the answer ends up being "oh well what can you do but try to report them". Why end it there? It's really a serious issue and something needs to be done. People are getting scammed out of $100s of dollars for items that are obviously fake and not only is it wrong on that level but it is flooding the market and taking away from the authentic items that are listed.

Not sure what the buyers end up doing but I'm sure in a couple of years (maybe weeks, doesn't take long for China junk to fall apart) they will end up noticing in some way and equate Ebay to a junk/scamfest and never come back. Or just walk around make everyone else think native jewelry is gross and cheap.

For example look up squash blossom necklace and there are tons of them selling/sold where users never even show a mark, mention how they know its sterling, or what leads them to claim it is Navajo or even old pawn which are all obviously fradulent. Especially when they have like 20 that all look the same and for some reason don't happen to have proper resources to back any of it up. 

At the same time you might see links right on the same page to a China seller selling almost the same exact thing but carefully tiptoe around sterling, or navajo (navajo style), for like $40. Yet the US seller has theirs bid up to $400 with days left. I've found one seller doing this with occasional purchases of bulk genuine turquoise cabochons in their purchase history now and again obviously as a half ***ed cover to help pass it off.

I just really can't stand it. And its so brazen that I think we can do something on our part if Ebay itself is unable to.

[emerald40]

I understand eexactly what you are saying.

The jewelry categories are a mess.  I was past page 100 going lowest first in the natural diamond category, and all but maybe 3 listings were fake.  And this was hitting US only.

At least now buyers have protections against unscupulous sellers and will be able to get their money back.

The ones I worry about are those that do not realize their item is fake until much later when they try to sell it.

I have reported until my finger was stiff, and nothing ever happens.  So I just scroll on past. 

Ebay has strong policies in place about Native American jewelry.  Problem is they do not enforce it.

[18704d]

I think part of this is the buyer's fault.

There wouldn't be such obvious listings, if buyers didn't want to (knowingly?) buy these types of items.

Generally speaking,

Lynn

[adkhighker]

One of the worst things about fakes, and also reproductions, is the extent to which they hurt the market for the real stuff.

Ethically wise, fakes are the worst because they are meant to fake buyers into buying something with the idea that it's real, when it's nothing but a fake. They are made with the intention of deceiving people into paying a significant amount of money for something that's practically worthless. 

Then there are reproductions. Reproductions aren't made to deceive because they are advertised for just what they are, cheap copies of something that's hard to find or of cheaply made replicas of something that's expensive.  Over countless decades, reproductions have been responsible for absolutely killing the value of many categories of quality antiques and other high value items as well. For so many buyers, it lead to the mindset of 'Why buy the real thing when you can have something that looks just like it for next to nothing?' That in turn leads to the price of the real thing dropping so low that it's hardly worth a seller's time in searching to find it, let alone trying to get anything for it once you do find it. IMO, reproductions, expecially those from overseas, are responsible more than anything else for devaluing the antiques market to the point where it's been at for at least the last decade or so.

[fsdfasdf-0]

Believe it or not there do exist people who enjoy purchasing fake jewelry at steep discount prices, they know it's fake and at times I wear some myself because nobody else knows it's fake and who cares... Bling is bling, whether it's made of glass or diamonds, all the same to me.

The only time a buyer will be disappointed is when they were expecting the real thing, however on ebay they are protected by liberal return policies and all they must do in most cases is return it for a full refund.

Last but not least...

Perhaps original is in fact overpriced and overrated, I realize in some cases it is handcrafted and real jewels are used but there sure seems to be a lot of hocus pocus and abracadabra surrounding the Emperor's New Clothes. And you may not feel this way  butin many cases the original is just as cheaply made with the manufacturer cutting just as many corners so the question that's begging to be asked is why should I pay $5 for a 20 cent trinket?

[luckythewinner]

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@handbanino wrote:

I've seen discussions on here about this already where usually the answer ends up being "oh well what can you do but try to report them". Why end it there? It's really a serious issue and something needs to be done.

---

Instead of asking why other sellers on this board have not come up with a solution, why don't you as a seller on this board offer your solution? 

The reason the answer always ends up the same is because there is no good solution available. 

[adkhighker]

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@luckythewinner wrote:

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@handbanino wrote:

I've seen discussions on here about this already where usually the answer ends up being "oh well what can you do but try to report them". Why end it there? It's really a serious issue and something needs to be done.

---

Instead of asking why other sellers on this board have not come up with a solution, why don't you as a seller on this board offer your solution? 

The reason the answer always ends up the same is because there is no good solution available. 

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I interpreted the OP as someone coming here with hopes of finding a solution to an important issue, not coming here because they had a solution to offer. 

[tholo5111]

Perhaps original is in fact overpriced and overrated, I realize in some cases it is handcrafted and real jewels are used but there sure seems to be a lot of hocus pocus and abracadabra surrounding the Emperor's New Clothes. And you may not feel this way butin many cases the original is just as cheaply made with the manufacturer cutting just as many corners so the question that's begging to be asked is why should I pay $5 for a 20 cent trinket?
___________

Obviously you've never seen good Navajo jewelry and don't understand how it's made or what it's made of.

No two pieces look alike, it's hand crafted and it's not just a matter of slapping few rocks in a premade setting. A bracelet can take a month or more to make, a squash blossom necklace can take a years.

The cheap knock off **bleep** had hurt thousands of talented artisans. The conditions on the Navajo Reservation are 3rd world. These folks scrimp and save to get the materials to produce their pieces in the hopes that someone will buy it. One decent sale can mean the difference between having electricity for a year or using candles.

We see the pieces selling for hundreds or thousands of dollars, but the artists only see a fraction of that.

The solution I've found is to travel to the Southwest and buy directly, that way I know what I'm buying is genuine, and the money goes to support the artists.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@18704d wrote:

I think part of this is the buyer's fault.

There wouldn't be such obvious listings, if buyers didn't want to (knowingly?) buy these types of items.

Generally speaking,

Lynn

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With all due respect, Lynn, I really can't put the blame on this on the buyers.  They didn't force sellers to offer fake goods.  Granted, if no one bought them, they might go away, but as you say, many may not be aware that they are buying a fake.  They might just see a good price, or whatever.  It's not always the buyer's fault.

[handbanino]

I wholeheartedly here. The difference in look ere is just so night and day . I guess these fakes can be described as a representation of the real thing in the same way you can say Charlie Brown represents a human being but really it is a complete insult to the Natives. A real piece of old pawn is fascinating and even before I knew the slightest thing about jewelry I could clearly tell that a skilled craftsman worked for hours toiling and creating every millimeter of my treasured lighter holder.

In the OP I was fully aware that I didn't really mention that the fakes ultimately steal from these artists who already have so little and are already treated so poorly. Also as previously mentioned it devalues previously created art circulation in the antique trade.

[handbanino]

Correct. I'm not exactly sure where to turn with all of this and was hoping we could share some ideas and possibly get something off the ground that would actually be effective.

[femmefan1946]

I wonder if a change in the type of Report might help?

Instead of reporting as faked jewelry, reporting as not being First Nations/Native American products.

Moving it from a type of report that is difficult to prove and overloaded (plated rather than sterling silver/ CZ rather than diamond, etc) to something more sensitive like protection of copyright?

I'm not saying this very well. Am I making any sense?

[jennieaa]

femmefan,

I was about to suggest the same thing.

I remember there used to be someone on the boards well versed in the Native American Act (I think it was called).

But I thing the Navajo nation has to be the one to do the take down.