mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
Sold a camera, and within an hour after sale got paid and message that asked to send to different address.
1. Called eBay and was told do not ship to requested address, and didn't. Was also told be careful SCAM? but was also told account looked good! but to take pictures of item boxed.
Sometimes buyers do this and in ebay as long as you have an email inside of Ebay from the buyer asking for the address change you are fine with Ebay. But the same does not hold true for PP. One of the qualifications for Seller Protection in PP is you MUST ship to the address on the PP payment.
Oh and I don't know why a representative from Ebay would ever tell you to take pics of the item boxed, as it would do you no good with Ebay if a claim was filed. ZERO help.
2. Took pictures of item being boxed, and had witness's watch. Got documentation that item was sent proper, requested signature and then shipped.
That means nothing to Ebay. Signature confirmation is a good idea when dealing with expensive items.
3. days later got email from eBay item delivered, then got email saying thanks fast delivery. Sounds good but gets crazy now. couple of hours later got notice saying case open over item not received, or missing, or something??/ later case opened with PayPal as not received, instead got a rock??????
Are you saying the buyer opened an INR in Ebay and a SNAD in PP? We will need clarification on this before any of us would be able to assist you as these are two completely different things. It can't be both ways. If he said he got a rock, then it isn't an item not received case, it is significantly not as described.
I have not personally hear of PP allowing a case to be opening in PP when there is an active case opened in Ebay. But the first thing you should do is CALL EBAY and report this. Then call PP and report the issue. Tell them you have an INR in Ebay and a SNAD in PP.
PayPal almost refunded, but in the meantime i called post office and found that the buyer signed for package, returned two hours or so later and filed a claim that he got wood and rocks for item. Contacted Buyer and let him now i had spoken to post office about this and asked when he notified Post Office?
That is more than enough to get the Ebay Claim closed in your favor, but you still need to report this buyer.
As for PP that should be may or may not resolve the issue depending on what type of claim he actually opened in PP as I'm unclear if it was actually an INR or a SNAD.
His statement in return email was he picked up package and opened in paring lot of post office, but instead of going back in to show this he went for breakfast and returned an hour or so latter. (See I told you it was getting crazy)
DON'T engage the buyer. That is only going to cause more trouble. Just call Ebay and get the case closed as you can prove delivery. It really is quite simple.
4. within the next few days eBay denied his claim, and PayPal denied his claim. Buyer got my phone number and called me saying he was going to win on this, that he received paper, wood and rocks. I asked for him to show me what he got, but he stated the post office kept it all??? I asked him why the time delay, and his answer was don’t know, had to think and ate breakfast then went back to open a claim at Post office. Now there is more but just trying to keep it short to see if anyone else has had a crazy one like this.
STOP it. Do Not engage this guy. Just inform him the matter is closed and move on. Be polite and professional, but you are only going to create problems for yourself by continuing to engage this guy. It is over, leave him alone.
5. After all this i get an email from him saying thanks for refund (Which I had not sent) and all was good, He sent me the forms where he filed for the insurance to replace the transaction. But included the fact his Dementia and Alzheimer’s had kicked in and had the wrong amount requested on claim>>>
You lost me on that one.
A few weeks later I now get notice that his bank was making a charge back and that is out of the control of PayPal, but they were and are fighting for me. I was also told if bank did chargeback than there was nothing i could do and it was not covered under Buyer Protection.
This is NOT true. Present the same evidence you did for the original claims. Show delivery and signature acceptance. As long as you followed the rules of PP for Seller protection, you should be covered.
6. So now i am looking at the strong possibility that not only do I lose my camera, they will give the money back because it was a charge card. and if he happens to win the insurance claim, would get paid by post office????
I wouldn't worry about the insurance claim but do worry about the chargeback. However I would make sure that the information you log into the PP resolution center for the chargeback has the information that he filed an insurance claim too. In fact I would make sure everything was noted. The Ebay INR, PP INR, Insurance claim and now this chargeback. The buyer is trying every way they can to get this for free. He is working very hard at it too. Dang he is persistant.
WOIW this has been a crazy ride, he even called our office and said if I didn’t give back the money, that he would have someone visit me and I would regret that!
Was that in an Ebay email? If it was, you may be able to get some attention on that. Let me know.
PayPal is still trying to fight off the bank, but PayPal said bank is claiming not as described or broke or missing items.
You have got to make sure that PP relays to the bank all the attempts and different stories this guy has told. You have a comment field in the resolution center. USe it and get all this stuff documented in there. Then call PP and talk with someone. Go over everything again. The bank needs to know all this information.
because of the bank request item is not covered under Buyer or seller protection.
It was never covered under Ebay buyer or seller protection, but you are dealing with PP and YES there is seller protection IF you followed the rules.
Now even though eBay and PayPal have denied this and not given back money that if the bank does not honor the fact he did sign for it, and both have denied, the bank has ultimate control. I could be out the Item, and loose the money, where he stands the chance to keep the camera, get back the money he paid and if by chance the Post Office settles could get an amount equal to what he paid...
Then you need to make sure the bank has ALL the information about ALL the things this buyer has attempted in order to get his money back and how often the story has changed.
It looks like no matter how much protection you think you have the bank has more that anyone has and in the end the seller always looses..
Not true. Unless you don't give them all the information.
@savingwings wrote:you are right,sorry, upset, and mad... I just ranted... will see if I cn fix it, and looks like some wonderfull personb as attempted that for me.. Thanks
After I posted this, my wife and I talked. She also said in retail and even in her law practice that credit cards were hard to handle when someone reverses charges. Aerican Express being the worst. So I guess it is aproblem in many areas not just eBay oir PayPal
She is somewhat right. But you need to remember that CCCs do NOT always rule for their customer. If CCCs did that on a regular basis, various businesses would start refusing to take those cards. Just because you have a valid CC does not mean you can use it anywhere you want. The various establishments have the right to accept or not accept certain cards. So if CCCs consistantly ruled in favor of their customers no matter what, certain companies may start refusing to take those cards if they get hit too many times.
@savingwings wrote:Thank you for the replay. Yes, I have been talking to PayPal as they are dealing with Bank and trying to be on my side. Yes, I believe they have documented all to the bank. As for the pictures taken at time of shipping, and an affidavit from an attorney, a legal assistant, and another worker sent to PayPal and forwarded to bank. I talked to PayPal rep in the claims department yesterday, and he told me it was good that I provided the information. He said that when the bank first started the reversal they did not give a reason code, but later called it Not As Described. I called my Banker and asked him how this works and found his help disturbing and again helpful. Banker said it is policy at Chase Bank to help customer as best they can regardless, So when they hear the Name eBay or PayPal, the bank will 99% of the time send reason code to merchant as SNAD or just Not as described and stay with reversal. The banker also said we "The Bank" do not require the card holder to return merchandise unless it is over $2500.00 and a couple of other restrictions he mentioned. He said he knows that by using Not as Described they just reverse in favor of card holder... He also agreed AMEX is the worst, they seldom if ever loose. Now he did say this , that my customer stated he received wood, rock, paper? so as He (the banker) put it, sounds like he got the camera, and is just using the ploy of "I didn’t get what I ordered" (His Opinion) HIS LAST COMMENT WAS A SIMPLE ONE, The bank will probably follow through with reversal, as they know you only have one option and that is court! Bank outweighs decision of PayPal at all times, and he said as a Banker we are here to help our customer, and keep him as a customer, if the customer does not have a valid reason to reverse, then we are to assist him or her find one!..... His words! Last Point. Talked with Police investigator and what he said, was that he saw the two emails come from two different sources, but yet tied into this situation, he also noted the different email account from buyer, which did not go through the eBay mail account. His Comment was "He is either smart, or forgets what account he is using" BUT he agreed it was out of the ordinary
PLEASE remember, PARAGRAPHS are your FRIEND. And it is so much easier for everyone else to read. I typically won't even read a post like this as it drives my eyes nuts not to mention my brain. LOL
I'm not convinced that all of that is completely true as I've won chargebacks before.
If a CCC frequently practices allowing a customer to have a 100% refund on a product they received and keep the product too, then they would be wide open for a law suit for facilitating the FINANCIAL FRAUD using a FEDERAL AGENCY [USPS] as part of the fraudulent act. USPS is a federal agency and Mail Fraud is a FEDERAL offence.
Personally I think you need to go into this with your eyes wide open and your mind wide open. Consider what others tell you, but be on a mission to make sure all evidence is presented so that everyone can make an informed decision.
Don't depend on PP to "tell" you they have all the information. Make sure YOU have logged it onto the claim in the resolution center and that you have attached any documentation you have to the claim in the resolution center. Do NOT go off what others tell you that they have or don't have. YOU need to make sure it is in the claim.
