04-04-2022 02:48 PM - last edited on 04-05-2022 04:54 PM by kh-gary
Greetings all!
If you clicked on this post you probably already know the title to be true of the VeRO program but I wanted to share a little experience with you all & let others sound off on how broken this system is & how it inevitably will help destroy eBay’s secondary seller market.
Over a year ago I purchased several sealed cases of Subway branded employee apparel from a large national wholesale company. These items were hats, bandanas, aprons etc sold in bulk quantities of like 72, 144,480 etc. All new in manufacturers boxes initially meant for Subway locations across the country but apparently liquidated during the last few years when Subway closed many locations for one reason or another. Anyways, I bought them outright & have the receipts. If you searched eBay now for “Subway uniforms” you’d see many listings containing these exact items.
Last week out of the blue I get a VeRO notification stating all four of my listings offering these items had been removed & claimed as “fake or counterfeit” by the rights owner. They completely skipped a listing containing the hats (I pulled it quickly after seeing the others, so I could investigate). I earned a 3 day listing ban due to one other VeRO complaint from a few months ago on some name brand glasses that were reported AFTER they were already sold (makes a lot of sense right?).I had a lot of new inventory to list this weekend so this ban heated me royally especially since I know the items are not fake & have the cases with purchase orders on them from the manufacturer.
I go the advised route & email the rights owner as suggested by eBay knowing full well the ban will be lifted before they reply, if they reply at all. To my surprise I get a reply Monday morning from a representative of Corsearch, the company who filed the claim on Subway’s behalf & who advertised to be an industry leader in IP knowledge and protection. The email to them & from them is attached with the reps statement here. Notice that they do not back their claim of “fake or counterfeit” but instead choose to lean on Subway’s own policy stating they do not “allow” for the sale of restaurant supplies. Therefore the claim submitted against the legitimacy of my listing items is downright false & was filed with malicious intent to remove legal & permitted items from the eBay marketplace.
Apparently, this Corsearch company likes to play fast & loose with supposed IP rights because they are unaware or don’t care that legally you can pretty much sale whatever you want if you purchased it legally. Doesn’t matter what the brand thinks about grey market sales.
I’ve shared all the emails with the vero department at eBay & have requested they remove the record of the filing against my account since it was made in bad faith & under false pretenses. Additionally, I’m tempted to re post the items removed with the first few photos being the rulings of the upper court cases involving the rights of private parties to sell branded goods without the consent of the rights owner just to make a point.
Anyways, I’m still mad that this thing can be done in 2022 & eBay not assist in any way at all as long as they feel like they are not in legal jeopardy of being sued (they are though). Would love to see a class action on behalf of all of us sellers who have lost time, money, & had to pull inventory because of this.
Rant over, any thoughts?
Solved! Go to Best Answer
04-05-2022 01:34 PM
I'm well aware of the definition of feebay's willful ignorance of counterfeit silver and gold. Corporate greed. And fleeced buyers have no recourse when they eventually learn they paid hundreds or thousands for junk. C'est La Vie!
04-05-2022 01:54 PM
The "first sale" doctrine may not come into play in some cases; and, over the course of time (especially with the advent of the internet) it may not even be entirely applicable under certain circumstances.
The VERO case in which I was directly involved on eBay concerned the estate of a well-known author (now deceased): I had stumbled across an unauthorized collection of the author's early short stories, which I then had listed on eBay. Shortly thereafter, eBay had notified me that my listing had been taken down, due to a VERO complaint by the author's estate. Even though I could have stated the "first sale" doctrine, I also realized that my financial pockets were NEVER going to be as deep as those of the author's estate, and I chose caution instead.
I gave the book to my son, and told him to store it carefully as a rare valuable.
04-05-2022 01:57 PM
Probably the final update on this thread from
me as I’m nearing my wits end with eBay’s VeRO department. I’ve received THREE separate emails in response to my message containing the emails from the third party reporting firm Corsearch showing that they admitted to reporting the items not because they were “fake or counterfeit” as alleged but because Subway doesn’t allow the sale of “restaurant supplies”. I explained that this isn’t Subway’s site, Subway also has no power to restrict what is sold by people who purchased it legally. I have the receipts.
three separate eBay VeRO employees have emailed me the same canned garbage stating “we don’t have any further information”…..”we are in no position to adjudicate”….” We cannot remove the mark on the account without a direct message from the reporting company retracting their claim.”
Yet another example of how being a client on eBay means Jack squat when it comes down to it. They choose to lie to you instead of look at the information in front of them objectively. Luckily this issue only costed me three days spanning a weekend of no new listings over some low value items, but the larger point is that we sellers are being fleeced by the company we are paying & they are okay with it.
04-05-2022 02:07 PM
Interesting. First sale is the first stop, next week have the handful of Supreme Court cases regarding the rights of private sellers in the grey market & in regards to the rights you have to sell your personal items without interference from the original retailer or rights holder. I have no concern in my claim if this being a bogus claim being allowed by eBay simply because they are going to shift blame to their clients at every possible opportunity without a second of thought as to whether there even is any liability.
You’re better than I am regarding your estate fund & I would have sought to sell it elsewhere if that was the case. It’s getting cheaper to host your own auction site nowadays & in my home state you don’t even need an auctioneer license to do so if it is online only! Definitely looking into that if this keeps up. My pockets are not deep but I’m also not scared of legal action & the cost necessary to stand up to what are misguided practices. I pay to use a service & I agree to all the multitude of policies & regulations. Too many to have to worry about arbitrary actions by third parties dictating how I make money even further on here.
04-05-2022 02:08 PM
Only problem with your theory is that how do you know that Subway doesn't have ownership rights to its employee uniforms. With good inventory control it would know that either the products your listed were either counterfeit or stolen.
04-05-2022 04:59 PM
IF it did then id suspect you wouldn’t be able to find them in such mass quantities on here right now. Not too mention the company that I bought them from (large national wholesaler & liquidator with over 40 warehouse locations im the US) wouldnt have sold them at public auction to the general public. Many of the people selling them from the southeast got them from the same domestic wholesaler that I did btw. I’m not here to entertain hypotheticals though. The situation is clear given the facts obtained. I was targeted by a firm on subway’s behalf because they are misinformed to believe that they can regulate the private sale of items bearing their logo that they no longer own or are in legal possession of. I don’t care about their internal polices. Im not standing on Subway’s property or under their authority as an employee.
04-05-2022 06:07 PM
@tristartreasures wrote:Anyways, I’m still mad that this thing can be done in 2022 & eBay not assist in any way at all as long as they feel like they are not in legal jeopardy of being sued (they are though). Would love to see a class action on behalf of all of us sellers who have lost time, money, & had to pull inventory because of this.
Rant over, any thoughts?
eBay is always in jeopardy of being sued - but they are not in jeopardy of losing. You will not win a case against eBay for complying with OCILLA.
You will need to sue Subway if you want to stand a chance of winning. But you'll want to make sure that whoever sold you those uniforms had the legal right to do so.
04-05-2022 11:20 PM
" We had a Starbucks close recently and a representative came to make sure all merchandise was destroyed while the person witnessed. Do what you have to do though."
Sooooooooooooooooo...no Starbucks mugs can be sold here now?
04-05-2022 11:59 PM
Uhm, that may not be as malicious as it is ignorant or uneducated...
However these people do need to get their act together.
Would be nice to find a good, relatively inexpensive attorney...
What I mean by relatively inexpensive is say 500-1500 dollars or so...
Per incident, of course.
To "handle" some of these cases.
04-06-2022 12:34 AM
There gose the franchise collectibles neighborhood..
04-06-2022 01:59 AM
@tristartreasures wrote:I was targeted by a firm on subway’s behalf because they believe that they can regulate the private sale of items bearing their logo that they no longer own or are in legal possession of.
You are very wrong. They own the logo. Hopefully if you don't stop they will not sue you.
04-06-2022 02:01 AM
@moondogblues wrote:" We had a Starbucks close recently and a representative came to make sure all merchandise was destroyed while the person witnessed. Do what you have to do though."
@moondogblues Sooooooooooooooooo...no Starbucks mugs can be sold here now?
If they decide they do not want then sold here, then yes, they will inform Ebay to take them down through the vero program.
04-06-2022 05:10 AM
Good point.
04-08-2022 01:04 PM
I just meant if there is a page the company fills out I don't know if Uniform policy is an option but it may very well be a legal reason to take the item off Ebay. Like I only have so many options when starting a return for instance. The company stated why it was taken down when asked by the seller but couldn't click that specific option stating that when filing with Ebay Vero.
04-08-2022 01:46 PM
@coolections wrote:
@moondogblues wrote:" We had a Starbucks close recently and a representative came to make sure all merchandise was destroyed while the person witnessed. Do what you have to do though."
@moondogblues Sooooooooooooooooo...no Starbucks mugs can be sold here now?
If they decide they do not want then sold here, then yes, they will inform Ebay to take them down through the vero program.
Perhaps, but it is my understanding that the Vero program is not for companies that don't want an item sold here. If they specifically told ebay that was the reason, I don't know if they would actually take down the product. They could of course lie about the reason.