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Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

Greetings all!

 

If you clicked on this post you probably already know the title to be true of the VeRO program but I wanted to share a little experience with you all & let others sound off on how broken this system is & how it inevitably will help destroy eBay’s secondary seller market. 

Over a year ago I purchased several sealed cases of Subway branded employee apparel from a large national wholesale company. These items were hats, bandanas, aprons etc sold in bulk quantities of like 72, 144,480 etc. All new in manufacturers boxes initially meant for Subway locations across the country but apparently liquidated during the last few years when Subway closed many locations for one reason or another. Anyways, I bought them outright & have the receipts. If you searched eBay now for “Subway uniforms” you’d see many listings containing these exact items. 

Last week out of the blue I get a VeRO notification stating all four of my listings offering these items had been removed & claimed as “fake or counterfeit” by the rights owner. They completely skipped a listing containing the hats (I pulled it quickly after seeing the others, so I could investigate). I earned a 3 day listing ban due to one other VeRO complaint from a few months ago on some name brand glasses that were reported AFTER they were already sold (makes a lot of sense right?).I had a lot of new inventory to list this weekend so this ban heated me royally especially since I know the items are not fake & have the cases with purchase orders on them from the manufacturer. 

I go the advised route & email the rights owner as suggested by eBay knowing full well the ban will be lifted before they reply, if they reply at all. To my surprise I get a reply Monday morning from a representative of Corsearch, the company who filed the claim on Subway’s behalf & who advertised to be an industry leader in IP knowledge and protection. The email to them & from them is attached with the reps statement here. Notice that they do not back their claim of “fake or counterfeit” but instead choose to lean on Subway’s own policy stating they do not “allow” for the sale of restaurant supplies. Therefore the claim submitted against the legitimacy of my listing items is downright false & was filed with malicious intent to remove legal & permitted items from the eBay marketplace.

Apparently, this Corsearch company likes to play fast & loose with supposed IP rights because they are unaware or don’t care that legally you can pretty much sale whatever you want if you purchased it legally. Doesn’t matter what the brand thinks about grey market sales. 

I’ve shared all the emails with the vero department at eBay & have requested they remove the record of the filing against my account since it was made in bad faith & under false pretenses. Additionally, I’m tempted to re post the items removed with the first few photos being the rulings of the upper court cases involving the rights of private parties to sell branded goods without the consent of the rights owner just to make a point. 

Anyways, I’m still mad that this thing can be done in 2022 & eBay not assist in any way at all as long as they feel like they are not in legal jeopardy of being sued (they are though). Would love to see a class action on behalf of all of us sellers who have lost time, money, & had to pull inventory because of this.

 

Rant over, any thoughts?

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Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

They claimed they are counterfeit but admit they only did that to get them removed. You could (and should) sue Corsearch for defamation. 

They can call you a thief, counterfeiter, or anything else they want to you, BUT, where they screwed up is making that claim to a 3rd party (especially when they know they have no proof) that is also a company you regularly do business with (eBay) and they deliberately defamed your name to get something they were not entitled to (removable of your listings). This tarnished your reputation in the eyes of the company you do business with (eBay), and that will stay on your ebay record which can hurt/hinder future earnings potential.

Find yourself a good attorney and nail their tails to the wall.

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Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

They claimed they are counterfeit but admit they only did that to get them removed. You could (and should) sue Corsearch for defamation. 

They can call you a thief, counterfeiter, or anything else they want to you, BUT, where they screwed up is making that claim to a 3rd party (especially when they know they have no proof) that is also a company you regularly do business with (eBay) and they deliberately defamed your name to get something they were not entitled to (removable of your listings). This tarnished your reputation in the eyes of the company you do business with (eBay), and that will stay on your ebay record which can hurt/hinder future earnings potential.

Find yourself a good attorney and nail their tails to the wall.

Message 2 of 60
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Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

Exactly! I’d honestly throw money at it if there were a class action situation but as a one person small business I can’t afford to burn 5-6 figures on a protracted civil case even if I know they will have to settle because they are wrong. My real beef is with eBay for throwing sellers to the sharks like this & trying to stay out of it themselves. If you create a system that is easy to abuse & provide no safeguards you are just as liable imho. 

Message 3 of 60
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Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

Check out Tabberone's website because she has been known to go after companies that misuse DMCA and bully small sellers. 

 

She has a hall of shame that names companies that unlawfully abuse the law.  She can advise you on the steps to take against the abuser. 

 

http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/CopyrightLaw/FirstSaleDoctrine/FirstSale.shtml

 

albertabrightalberta
Volunteer Community Mentor

Message 4 of 60
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Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

I realize this is easier said than done but you may find an attorney that will take it and take their fee after settlement. Or, you could really irk them and go via the small claims route. Not a lot of money to be had through small claims but it doesn't cost much to file and numerous courts are now doing it online so you may not have to go to their state.

Message 5 of 60
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Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

Now you are going "old school"! I haven't heard Tabberone's name come up in years. And to the OP, yes, this is good advice.

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Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

If you want to pursue this, the cheapest first step it to just have your attorney send a letter to the VeRO member, making sure he also sends a copy to ebay's legal department.  This alone often is enough to back down an abusing bully.

 

To go further, this is something you can file in your local federal court for a reasonable fee.  This makes them come to you.  Plus in federal court the loser pays all costs and up to trebled damages.  Few abusing VeRO members will risk that and will back down immediately, even to the point of paying an out of court settlement.  Once ebay puts your winning outcome in your file, they leave you alone.

 

Of course VeRO members count on no one going this far, especially to sell but a few items.  But if it is your livelihood then it is worth pursuing.  You may even find a public advocate group with legal services to help you.

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Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously


@rfmtm wrote:

If you want to pursue this, the cheapest first step it to just have your attorney send a letter to the VeRO member, making sure he also sends a copy to ebay's legal department.  This alone often is enough to back down an abusing bully.

 

To go further, this is something you can file in your local federal court for a reasonable fee.  This makes them come to you.  Plus in federal court the loser pays all costs and up to trebled damages.  Few abusing VeRO members will risk that and will back down immediately, even to the point of paying an out of court settlement.  Once ebay puts your winning outcome in your file, they leave you alone.

 

Of course VeRO members count on no one going this far, especially to sell but a few items.  But if it is your livelihood then it is worth pursuing.  You may even find a public advocate group with legal services to help you.


"Letters" don't work, you need to file an official counter-notice against the entity who filed the Notice Of Copyright Infringement.

 

I wish people would stop using the term "Vero Member", ANYONE can file an NOCI against eBay they do not need to be a Vero member.

 

 

For info on counter notices and all things related to the DMCA check out the Copyright Alliance website:

 

https://copyrightalliance.org/education/copyright-law-explained/the-digital-millennium-copyright-act...

 

The link is specific to the counter notice process.

 

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Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

I don't believe for a minute that Subway would allow anyone to sell their merchandise. People could pretend to be a Subway restaurant and mislead Subway's brand. Subway should sue for anyone for any loss they were to occur by anyone buying such items IMO. We had a Starbucks close recently and a representative came to make sure all merchandise was destroyed while the person witnessed. Do what you have to do though.

Message 9 of 60
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Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

Feebay wilfully allows obvious counterfeit goods from china and russia, etc. Fake silver and gold US coins and bullion, for example. They are obviously big money makers for feebay, and big money losers for the poor suckers being fleeced, with feebay's help. Ironic, isn't it? Good luck with your battle.

Message 10 of 60
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Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

Nobody needs "proof" it's a well know fact that hundreds of thousands of false take down notices are sent out every day.

 

There is a lot of data out there related to the MILLIONS of infringement notices Google receives every day. Plenty of "funny" stories about IP owners sending out take down orders for things THEY themselves posted.

 

Classic example would be some of the big film studios sending NOCI's to Google (YouTube) for movie previews THEY posted to THEIR own YouTube accounts!

Message 11 of 60
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Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

@seconhandrosie 

Do you have any idea how many listings daily get removed. Please don't mislead people into conspiracies. Ebay does not willfully allow counterfeits.  There are so many people who list things daily that need to be removed Ebay cannot possibly keep up with every one.

Message 12 of 60
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Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously


@seconhandrosie wrote:

Feebay wilfully allows


You mean like how police WILFULLY allows speeders.....

 

Or gas stations WILFULLY allow armed robbery....

 

Or the IRS WILFULLY allows tax evasion.... (there might be a nugget of truth to that one?)

 

Or the local grocery store WILFULLY allows shoplifting....

 

eBay spends millions attempting to keep the site free of fake merchandise (listed BY sellers), if they spent multiple BILLIONS there would still be stuff listed (BY sellers) that should not be.

 

slippinjimmy_0-1649115652287.png

 

Message 13 of 60
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Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

You don’t get the point of the conversation here. eBay makes money off of us sellers (I have thousands of items for sale) they charge us for the privilege then let third parties ( the brands ) dictate how the site is used by those of us paying for the privilege to sell here. There are no checks & balances. That’s a problem. 

Message 14 of 60
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Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously


@coolections wrote:

I don't believe for a minute that Subway would allow anyone to sell their merchandise. People could pretend to be a Subway restaurant and mislead Subway's brand. Subway should sue for anyone for any loss they were to occur by anyone buying such items IMO. We had a Starbucks close recently and a representative came to make sure all merchandise was destroyed while the person witnessed. Do what you have to do though.


Yep, I used to work for a store chain that ended up going belly-up. When we closed, we had to destroy all of the brand-name packaging, etc. We weren't allowed to take any of it home or give it away.

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