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Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

Greetings all!

 

If you clicked on this post you probably already know the title to be true of the VeRO program but I wanted to share a little experience with you all & let others sound off on how broken this system is & how it inevitably will help destroy eBay’s secondary seller market. 

Over a year ago I purchased several sealed cases of Subway branded employee apparel from a large national wholesale company. These items were hats, bandanas, aprons etc sold in bulk quantities of like 72, 144,480 etc. All new in manufacturers boxes initially meant for Subway locations across the country but apparently liquidated during the last few years when Subway closed many locations for one reason or another. Anyways, I bought them outright & have the receipts. If you searched eBay now for “Subway uniforms” you’d see many listings containing these exact items. 

Last week out of the blue I get a VeRO notification stating all four of my listings offering these items had been removed & claimed as “fake or counterfeit” by the rights owner. They completely skipped a listing containing the hats (I pulled it quickly after seeing the others, so I could investigate). I earned a 3 day listing ban due to one other VeRO complaint from a few months ago on some name brand glasses that were reported AFTER they were already sold (makes a lot of sense right?).I had a lot of new inventory to list this weekend so this ban heated me royally especially since I know the items are not fake & have the cases with purchase orders on them from the manufacturer. 

I go the advised route & email the rights owner as suggested by eBay knowing full well the ban will be lifted before they reply, if they reply at all. To my surprise I get a reply Monday morning from a representative of Corsearch, the company who filed the claim on Subway’s behalf & who advertised to be an industry leader in IP knowledge and protection. The email to them & from them is attached with the reps statement here. Notice that they do not back their claim of “fake or counterfeit” but instead choose to lean on Subway’s own policy stating they do not “allow” for the sale of restaurant supplies. Therefore the claim submitted against the legitimacy of my listing items is downright false & was filed with malicious intent to remove legal & permitted items from the eBay marketplace.

Apparently, this Corsearch company likes to play fast & loose with supposed IP rights because they are unaware or don’t care that legally you can pretty much sale whatever you want if you purchased it legally. Doesn’t matter what the brand thinks about grey market sales. 

I’ve shared all the emails with the vero department at eBay & have requested they remove the record of the filing against my account since it was made in bad faith & under false pretenses. Additionally, I’m tempted to re post the items removed with the first few photos being the rulings of the upper court cases involving the rights of private parties to sell branded goods without the consent of the rights owner just to make a point. 

Anyways, I’m still mad that this thing can be done in 2022 & eBay not assist in any way at all as long as they feel like they are not in legal jeopardy of being sued (they are though). Would love to see a class action on behalf of all of us sellers who have lost time, money, & had to pull inventory because of this.

 

Rant over, any thoughts?

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59 REPLIES 59

Re: Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

Hello all.

 

Another update to the never ending saga that is the s storm of the VeRO program. Over a month after the original issue with these listings & after I removed several listings of the same items that were not flagged by the company originally I received an email saying my account was again suspended for 3 days due to the violation & the item referenced was one of the subways apparel items I had personally deleted on April 2nd. Of course I immediately called eBay & told them & they were able to remove the suspension (something they have told me they are “unable” to do many items). They said the item was deleted on April 2nd but somehow still able to be reported by the company. Further proof that  this program is broken. Also proof that eBay lied about not being able to interfere with the original filing even though I provided proof of purchase, original manufacturer information & other data to counter the filing that the listings were “counterfeit” & the company emailed me saying they reported it because “Subway’s policy is they don’t allow the selling of their branded items”. A policy that CANNOT be enforced on a third party’s website especially if the items are not owned by subway. 

Anyways, subway is garbage & their sandwiches are cardboard. Still waiting to haul off about 400lbs of new apparel to the dump.  

Message 46 of 60
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Re: Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

Is there not some SW stores that could use a deal on your items for their employees?   Have you tried listing elsewhere?  

Message 47 of 60
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Re: Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

I considered it but thought it would be super weird to roll up & ask the manager if they would put me in touch with their franchise owner because I could sell them some employee gear really cheap lol I don’t have any money invested in this stuff because luckily I sold enough before it was attacked to cover the costs. Funny enough there are hundreds of examples of the same things on here now still & some sellers have been selling them for over a year with hundreds of units moved on individual listings.

 

Just hate wasting things, but everybody should keep that in mind then next time they think about eating at Subway. 

Message 48 of 60
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Re: Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

Here is an update to my most recent “phantom item being reported” issue. 

 

ebay was able to remove the violation & reinstate my account listing privileges after I emailed the VeRO dept & explained the issue. HOWEVER, they acted like they were doing me a service & it was somehow my fault it was able to be reported even though it wasn’t listed or on their site in any capacity further. Statement from representative is below. Rights holders can access & find items that have been ended and deleted (mine was deleted on April 2nd) by sellers & submit them for a VeRO violation. eBay thinks it’s appropriate to ask you to contact VeRO & have the item scrubbed to protect yourself from arbitrary attack from outside parties? Total bull$hit. 

 

 

“Please understand as well that non active listings can also be visible to the Rights Owner and can be reported, you will therefore need to delete them completely or request for us to delete them completely with no consequence on your account. In the future we might not be able to remove the violation if you keep ended infringing items on your account.”

Message 49 of 60
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Re: Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

So you end listings before a problem arises and they can still penalize you for non-active listings.  Totally outrageous.

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Re: Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

I agree with your posting. VeRO program has Flaws in it that need to be addressed by Ebay. Case in point, I sell primarily military challenge coins. When I first started 17 years ago, these coins were mostly made in South Korea. Over the years, however, China got involved and started making them, very cheap and in mass quantities. They dont have the same regulations as the US, so they do as they please. I get it, but what bothers me is that if an American company, be it small or large, has these coins made in China, and has it "pattened" as there product and signs up for VeRO and sends it to Ebay, then China makes thousands more, puts them on Ebay and someone like me comes along and purchase some, then sells them, how in the name of Haiti am I supposed to know that the coins have a copyright on them? There is no way because there are thousands upon thousands of these made. The problem is that Ebay does not care. If a VeRO owner claims it is their product it gets removed and I get penalized. Of course if you write to the owners, Ebay says they can allow it to be reinstated. I dont want it reinstated, I just want to not be penalized. Its not fair to me. Remove it and move on. I have 100% postive feedbacks with over 55000 feedbacks. So I am doing something right and making Ebay a lot of money.

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Re: Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously


 

They said the item was deleted on April 2nd but somehow still able to be reported by the company. Further proof that  this program is broken.

 

If that listing was visible on eBay's site in any way, eBay is required to remove it or be subject to liability for the infringement if there is one. 

 

The OCILLA is about all intellectual property, not just eBay listings. So some of the requirements may seem unnecessary in the specific context of eBay, but that does not mean they do not apply. I have no doubt eBay's legal team told them to comply with the letter of the provision so they are not caught by a technicality.

 

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Re: Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously


@tristartreasures wrote:

everybody should keep that in mind then next time they think about eating at Subway. 


I don't think I will change my eating habits based on third-hand reports of a dispute over the ownership and disposal of surplus restaurant uniforms 😀

 

 

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Re: Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

It would be interesting to see this brought to a court case. The defamation is more easy to prove when a corporation (Subway/Corsearch) defames a competitor. First you would have to show a loss of wages/profit due to the suspension, along with what ever grief the defamation caused.

 

It has been successfully tried that items like Amway can be resold by a third party (I buy from the Amway rep and sell at a garage sale), The same is true of a licensed product (I buy a Disney toy at Target).

 

The question would be did Subway have a special contract with that wholesale company; limiting who they could sell to (i.e. only Subway franchise owners).  Subway would be compelled to give you a copy of that contract agreement.  If this was a breech of their contract, the  wholesale co. illegally sold the merchandise to you and you purchased illegal goods (that would be covered under VERO). You would have to sue the wholesale company.

 

If it was found (in court) that the wholesale co was not in breech of contract to sell to you, and you legally purchased the items; then you could and should sue Subway (or offer to sell all the items to them at a profit).

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Re: Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

I agree completely, it is actually ridiculous for eBay to even exist if we are constantly getting items removed for VeRO, how can it be a "re-selling" website if we can't "re-sell"??? Literally makes no sense. I also got a VeRO on an item AFTER it was sold...stupid! I also just had another item removed and the company is NOWHERE on the VeRO list! eBay does not update the VeRO list apparently nor do they care about the First Sale Doctrine. So again I do not see the point of eBay even existing. I even saw someone got listings pulled due to VeRO on handmade items because of the brand of cloth that was used!!! So it seems no matter what you do it is wrong somehow. 

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Re: Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

this folks. arm yourself with this site!

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Re: Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

it really does not matter.  subway or any other company will go after the small company over the bigger company. let me give you an example.     a bunch of fake otterbox ended up at bin stores.    so Amazon sold them to the bin store over destroying them threw liquidation.     resellers bought them and then sold them online, got vero violates, reported the stores to otterbox.     the company then went after the small bin stores over Amazon, who should of been sued.     the companies do not want to mess with the people with money, only those who do not have money to fight back.  i know of bin stores know that will just throw eveyone away over putting them in the store.  But the have no recourse, as they purchased them threw amazon legally.  

 

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Re: Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

there is also many every day who get taken down for things that are not counterfeits.   Ebay does not protect sellers who have evidence, and many companies do use vero to stop competition.   it is not a conspiracie.  i have had a book taken down, after purchase. when i asked for proof they sent a picture that was not the book i mailed to the investigator.  when i confronted them with the real picture, they stopped communicating with me. so sorry there are people who get paid to take things down and they do it without any care of facts or truth.

 

Message 58 of 60
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Re: Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

yes ebay is obligated to take down a claim of ownership, but but but ebay is not obligated to have such hash penalties that hit fast and hard.      that is where ebay can be held liable by the sellers.   i had a 3 day suspension one time for a bad complaint.  i got the complaint overturned,   complaint taken off my record, but still lost 3 days of sale and ebay would give no refund for the suspension.  so that is where ebay is liable. IMO

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Re: Proof that the VeRO program is used maliciously

Hi everyone,

Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread HERE if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.

Thank you for understanding.

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