Poll: strict rules for listings with variations

[traut-gmx]

Hi all,

what's your experience with listings that contain variations?

I feel that this is one of the most abused and thus useless choices that sellers have.

The typical malpractice is: Create a listing with variations to select from. Have some more expensive choices, but do include at least ONE item which is much cheaper, although it's somethin perfectly different than named within the title - e.g. a small piece of accessory.

This does manipulate the search, to show this auction with a very low price, although the item which people are looking for is much more expensive.

Even worse, ebay does not show the full range of prices, but many times the lowest price ONLY.
And ebay does not offer any option NOT to show listings with variations.

In former times, the rules where more strict that variations may list items of comparable characteristics only, but not perfectly different items:

ebay sell: listing variations What wouldn't be considered a multi-variation listing?

Nowadays I to not find these limits any more:

ebay sell: Creating listings with variations The prices of your items can vary...

Because of this frequent abuse, I'd welcome a poll:

[  ] 1. ebay must not permit variation listings with very different characteristics

[  ] 2. ebay should create an option to exclude variation listings

[  ] 3. variation listings must have the SAME price for each item. A price range of ±10% could be tolerable

(is there any other choice to create a poll nowadays, instead of using the reply button?)

Thanks for an active participation within this poll!

[traut-gmx]

Am I buying the wrong way?

Whenever I do select and buy from a variation list, I immediately will be moved to the purchase logout.

If I want to buy more, I can go back - or I can go to a very different item and buy this, too, then ask for a total cost of delivery.

Maybe the process is easier for the seller if multiple items are bought all together - but in fact I'm not even aware of this option and never could use it up to now. Or I did not mind, since delivery was free anyway.

For me, it's better not to have a variation list at all, instead of the common abuse of varations.

If ebay would enforce, that only likewise items are allowed (which was their rule before), we could be glad about your smart handling. But ebay ignored this problem, for years. 

I suggested several choices. I guess you could live with several of them.

[lovtaco0]

@traut-gmx Instead of clicking buy-it-now click add-to-cart. Once you're done go to the shopping cart and pay for everything at once.

[traut-gmx]

ah, thanks - add to cart is the obvious solution.

[ted_200]

I totally understand the frustration for the situation you're talking about.  I've also experienced that when looking for motorcycle helmets.  The chinese seller listed a goggle strap for a couple bucks in there which "price/shipping" forced them to the top...click on the listing, helmets are $89-$119.  However, there are legitimate reasons for variable pricing in multi-variant listings.  I use these alot (as I mentioned in an earlier post), for shade variations.  Some shades are in higher demand than others.  I may list 12 shades in my multi-variant listing.  The price range will not be more than a few dollars between them, however, I do not want to list them all at the same price as I can make more on some than others.  I'm not trying to "bait and switch", just give my buyers the shades available for the same product with the most competitive price available for each.  My buyers see all shades in one listing, and I don't have to create 12 separate listings with listing fees for each.  Unfortunately, there isn't a one size fits all rule to this issue.  

I completely agree with and understand what you're saying.  An example I've used before is selling sheets in twin, full, queen, and king. 

But there is just no automated way to figure out if what the seller is doing is legitimate, or is abusing the format. 

And if twin sheets are $39 but king sheets are $89, I'm not sure having the $39 price in there is helpful to the shopper of king sheets anyhow, even though it's not a scam / search manipulation attempt in any way, it's just a problem with eBay's search and product presentation.  I don't want to see any prices for twin size sheets.  So even when it's legitimate, this method of selling produces a bad buying experience.

And if I'm searching for queen sheets, the price is maybe somewhere between $69 and $79, but I can't see any price for any of them without about 6 or 8 clicks and opening every single listing. 

The only way to tell the helmet listings with a goggle strap you mentioned from the shades listings you mentioned is for a human being with a brain to open the listing and evaluate what is going on.  eBay isn't going to do that for 10,000,000 listings, so they won't be able to fix the abuse problem.  And no one wants to open a listing to determine what the actual price is anyhow.  If you've got 3 price points for shade, write 3 listings with variations at that price.  Listings are pretty much free here anyhow. 

[ted_200]

No one complains about such legit variations. That's actually what they are made for.

I just did.  If I want to see King sheets, I don't want to see prices for Twin sheets. 

Use variations to sell different colors/patterns of King sheets at an identifiable price, write another listing for the Twin sheets.  That is usable for buyers.  Putting all the pink sheets in different sizes and prices into the same listing is not usable for buyers. 

[ted_200]

The decision tree options for reporting listings with bogus variations don’t exactly match the offense. I think I finally found one for search manipulation?

Users would have to report millions of listings, and as you suggest, the form is so bad most of the time the end eBay recipient won't even know why you reported it.  It is search manipulation.  The site is too big... and too commercial... buyers aren't going to make a career of reporting listings as an answer to eBay'd dysfunctional multi-variation listing format. 

Still, I highly doubt such listings or sellers will be removed. A struggling new seller who unknowingly violates a rule will get suspended or even banned. A mega-seller cash cow who purposefully violates many rules, will not. 

This is correct.  There are far too many to report, sellers with Account Managers will escape sanction, and people mad about seeing twin sheet pricing when they're looking for king sheets will report listings too. 

The problem isn't entirely with Chinese sellers abusing this good idea, the problem is that the idea wasn't very good to start with and the Chinese sellers have predictably found a way to exploit it. 

[traut-gmx]

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@ted_200wrote:

The problem isn't entirely with Chinese sellers abusing this good idea, the problem is that the idea wasn't very good to start with and the Chinese sellers have predictably found a way to exploit it. 

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Exactly. Reporting is not a solution. It's the principle which has to be altered.

[Anonymous]

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@dhbookds wrote:

@Anonymous

Glad to hear that it's recognized as a problem and being looked at....

This may not seem to apply, but I think it does, in a larger way.   There is no way to "report" a seller as such and I think there should be....  We can only report specific listings....  Now whether whoever checks those listings has time to actually check the rest of the seller listings which may have the same violation, I don't know.   The few reports I've done and followed to what may have been a takedown, don't seem to indicated anything other than attention to the specific listings.  If a seller has 100's/1000's of listings obviously no one can/will report them all.    At the same time, there is often a violation going on in the squibb in the store header with phone #'s, off ebay web information, and/or bitter diatribes about ebay in general.  No way to report those, that I know of.  Some poor guy recently  reported one seller 3 times on the board, which were taken down because of naming/shaming, but he was right......the seller had multiple violations........and he was totally frustrated he couldn't figure out how to report him.  Trying to "keep" Ebay clean is not an easy task, but one in which some members would participate in.........IF there was an easy way........

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Hi @dhbookds, when reporting a listing of a seller's, this also will contribute to a review of their account behavior. We encourage reporting any concerns you run across, but also proactively review the site for concerns and take appropriate action.

[traut-gmx]

I'd like to report the sellers of the 1382 items from the 400 auctions on

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=&_udhi=2&LH_BIN=1&_nkw=magneti...

That's just the tip of the tip of the tip of this iceberg

Please explain HOW to report this abuse?

The closest thing is

> Category: Listing practices

>> Reason: Search and Browse Manipulation

>>> Detailed Reason: other?

ebay does not even offer a proper category for reporting it!?

Does ebay consider this as abuse at all? Where is it named on

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-policies/search-browse-manipulation-policy?id=4243 or anywhere else?

I quoted listing rules before - but I'm afraid that ebay themselves do consider this practice even less as a violation than before. 

So I did report the top five offers. How many reports do you think I could manage in five minutes? do you actually think that reporting is a solution for this problem? What do you think will happen after I reported these 5 of millions?

No, reporting is not a solution. It's the concept itself which is flawed and which requires a change.

[lookng2015]

I particularly like (sarcasm font) the MV listings where the .99 cent item (which shows up under search) is for a "random bonus gift" which is ALWAYS OOS and yes it IS the Chinese sellers that do this.

[chrysylys]

I maintain the pharse 'have done nothing' until I see a change on the site viewable to us all.

[ted_200]

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@chrysylyswrote:

I maintain the pharse 'have done nothing' until I see a change on the site viewable to us all.

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I've observed eBay is often run as if it were the government... who considers establishing a blue ribbon panel or commissioning a study "doing something".  Just like politicians, eBay is going to have a hard time accepting a real fix, because that's also going to impact very many big sellers, who are using the format "correctly". 

The problem is that the eBay search and other presentation functionalities aren't able to display the correct price for the correct item - it shows twin bed sheet prices to buyers looking to buy king bed sheets, as well as the 99¢ socks price on the $25 shoe listings.  That's going to be really complicated to fix.  The only practical solution that can be implemented relatively quickly - and actually work - is to limit the listings to a single price.

[chrysylys]

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@ted_200wrote:

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The only practical solution that can be implemented relatively quickly - and actually work - is to limit the listings to a single price.

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Which was one of the proposals.  One listing; one price.

But in order for that to work, ALL existing MV listings will have to end.  That means a full moratorium on ALL MV listings for at least 60 days.  The option needs to be removed entirely from the site long enough to allow all relists and GTC listings to expire.

Once that happens, gradually re-introduce a new version with limits as to price and variation type allowed.  Bring it into a few categories at a time, maybe even only a few sellers at first to monitor how it is being used and tweak the system a bit more.

See?  No committee needed.

[traut-gmx]

sounds good to me...

[luxe_beauty_4_less]

I'm fine with a restriction on price variance.  Say, 15% variance from the median price of the MV listing.  Anything greater than 15% (arbitrary number) is not allowed.  I'm not sure what the arbitrary number needs to be, but some variance should be allowed.  That, of course, is just my opinion based on the way I use MV listings.