Opening a new account without a ss number

[chariot_badges]

My next door neighbor was hanging in my garage the other day, watching me wrap and pack ... he asked me a question about eBay policies and I honestly didn't know.  So I came here because I just bet there's somebody here (probly more than one) that knows the answer.

He is a foreign national (French, but a good guy anyway).   Here legally.   He does not have a SS number and, for some reason, doesn't want one.  Wants to sell on eBay on an individual.  He has a few things that may have some value.  

I don't think that eBay will allow him to open an individual account with an EIN.  
I contacted chat assist and they said he'd need to do the W8 route.  

So, how does THAT work.  The W8 application gives you a temp ss number?  Do I file that with eBay, or IRS? or both?   

[maxine*j]

---

@mam98031 wrote:

...  Clearly your friend has been upfront with the US Government, applied and received and EIN so they can report their income...

As to the W8, if Ebay needs it, they will ask your friend for it.  It is just a form, nothing more.

---

How do you know the "friend" has an EIN?  OP did not say that.

A W-8 allows exempts the holder from certain tax withholdinhgs, because it is a declaration / confirmation that one is NOT a U.S. taxpayer.

-

[soh.maryl]

Respectfully, I don't believe I mentioned EINs or TINs in my post.  I don't even know what those are.

My concern mainly was that the OP seems to be wanting t make that person's issues his problem.

And I cautioned that that's not a good idea.  

[soh.maryl]

Thank you.  I don't even know what an EIN or a TIN would be.

If this person is wanting to sell on eBay, won't he need a bank account?

And won't having a bank account require an SS#? 

[soh.maryl]

My suggestion that the OP proceed cautiously and let the friend/neighbor work on his own requirements to sell here appears to have been met with a lot of spurious remarks to me.

So no one else here thinks this is a situation where the OP should be careful? What about the fact that the OP asks what steps he should take (presumably to help the neighbor/friend)? 

[maxine*j]

---

@mam98031 wrote:

...  I'm simply not sure where some of these posts are coming from...

---

In my case, they are coming from years of experience in this area.  

No one should jeopardize his immigration / visa status to sell stuff on eBay.  I do  not know OP's friend's status, so I can advise only what I did in my first post -- consult an immigration attorney -- and otherwise try to explain work authorization in general terms to those unfamiliar with it.

-

[maxine*j]

---

@soh.maryl wrote:

Respectfully, I don't believe I mentioned EINs or TINs in my post.  I don't even know what those are.

My concern mainly was that the OP seems to be wanting t make that person's issues his problem.

And I cautioned that that's not a good idea.  

---

Understood.  Sorry if some reply of mine made it seem otherwise.  I absolutely agree with your concern -- and that is on behalf of both OP and  his friend.

-

[maxine*j]

---

@soh.maryl wrote:

My suggestion that the OP proceed cautiously and let the friend/neighbor work on his own requirements to sell here appears to have been met with a lot of spurious remarks to me.

So no one else here thinks this is a situation where the OP should be careful? What about the fact that the OP asks what steps he should take (presumably to help the neighbor/friend)? 

---

If any of the remarks were mine, they were unintended and  I apologize, because I agree with you.

[lacemaker3]

eBay CS told the OP that the person from France, without an SSN, would need to provide a form W-8 BEN, which is used to provide information relating to some types of US-source income that is received by individuals who are not US citizens or permanent residents. It is not used for businesses.

Form W-8 BEN has places to fill in either an SSN or an ITIN (individual tax ID number, for individuals who do not qualify for an SSN), and a foreign tax ID number. There is no place to fill in an EIN (employer ID number, for businesses). Since this form is for individuals receiving income, not businesses, you can't use an EIN on this form instead of an SSN or ITIN.

All of these tax ID numbers may be optional, depending on the situation and/or type of US-source income being received. People who are not US citizens or permanent residents are subject to 30% withholding on some types of US-source income, including many types that are not related to employment, such as interest income, dividends, royalties, rent, etc. Form W-8 BEN is used to gather the required information for this.

Le vendeur français might be better advised to follow the advice here, from @reallynicestamps, and register for managed payments with their French identification, address and bank account. They should definitely consult an international tax lawyer who is familiar with the US/France tax treaty to understand all the ramifications. There could be more implications than just the relative tax rates. This could include whether or not the individual is required to have an SSN or ITIN and file a US tax return, or not.

[reallynicestamps]

With a few exceptions (students for example), a resident alien would have the right to work in the USA, but for tax reasons may prefer to be registered in their home country.

[mam98031]

---

@maxine*j wrote:

---

@mam98031 wrote:

---

---

@soh.maryl 

OMG, do you know how many people legitimately use EINs and TINs.  There is not a darn thing wrong with the OPs friend to run everything under their EIN.  And just so you know, it also means the OP's friend is claiming their income here in the USA.  I say the person is acting responsibly not trying to be underhanded.

---

---

@mam98031 wrote:

---

@soh.maryl wrote:

His not wanting an SS # leads me to think that you should not get involved here.  "Do I file that with eBay, or IRS? or both?"

None of the above.  

---

@soh.maryl 

OMG, do you know how many people legitimately use EINs and TINs.  There is not a darn thing wrong with the OPs friend to run everything under their EIN.  And just so you know, it also means the OP's friend is claiming their income here in the USA.  I say the person is acting responsibly not trying to be underhanded.

---

True.  But whether or not a foreign national residing in the U.S. will be issued an EIN or a TIN depends upon that person's immigration / visa status. 

One must be in a status that allows one to work and that work, must in turn, meet guidelines and restrictions.  

Those on non-immigrant visas must obtain an EAD card, and must present other documents, to obtain a SSN or an EIN is that person's visa status allows employment.

It puts the cart before the horse to think about getting an SSN, EIN, or TIN before having work authorization in accordance with immigration / visa status.

We have no idea what OP's "friend's" status is, so we have no idea if he can obtain work authorization and, in turn, obtain as SSN, EIN, or TIN.

Lawful presence in the U.S. does not grant the right to work.  Only those in certain immigration / visa statuses may work.  Being here legally is only one requirement.

This is my wheelhouse.-

---

OK, then why the issue.  The OP said their friend has an EIN.  "We have no idea what OP's "friend's" status is..."  True other than the OP said their friend was here legally and has an EIN.  I'm just going with the info we have, not assuming the OP doesn't know what they are sharing about their friend.

[mam98031]

---

@maxine*j wrote:

---

@mam98031 wrote:

---

@maxine*j wrote:

---

@soh.maryl wrote:

His not wanting an SS # leads me to think that you should not get involved here.  "Do I file that with eBay, or IRS? or both?"

None of the above.  

---

Yep.  If is in an immigration / visa status that allows him to work, he can obtain an SSN rather easily. 

And one needs an SSN to get a W-8, by the way.

-

---

The OP said the friend is here legally.  Seems some are really jumping to conclusions here.

To have an EIN, means the friend contacted IRS and filled out all the appropriate paperwork.

---

You are jumping to conclusions if you think that anyone who is in the country legally is allowed to work.  That is not at all the case.  Being here legally is only one criteria to be met in order to obtain work authorization. 

Many, many immigration / visa statuses do not permit work of any kind.  Others allow work with certain restrictions.  Some allow work of any kind, no restrictions.  Lawful presence alone does not mean one has work authorization.

---

Good points.  I assumed that if the IRS issued them an EIN that they were able to work in the US.  I certainly could be mistaken.

[mam98031]

---

@soh.maryl wrote:

Thank you.  I don't even know what an EIN or a TIN would be.

If this person is wanting to sell on eBay, won't he need a bank account?

And won't having a bank account require an SS#? 

---

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/apply-for-an-employer-identification-n...

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/taxpayer-identification-numbers-tin

[lacemaker3]

OP did not say that their friend had an EIN. It was mentioned in a hypothetical statement: "I don't think that eBay will allow him to open an individual account with an EIN." and OP is correct. You can't open an eBay account with just an EIN, and I believe it should be a business account if you enter one. Otherwise, eBay has used the individual's SSN number on their 1099-K, instead of the EIN. To correct that, the account had to be changed to a business account.

Withe a business account, you can use an EIN so that the income is reported in the business' name and EIN number. However, eBay still requires you to provide the names and SSN/ITIN numbers for each of the business's owners or beneficiaries.

A person does not have to be a citizen or permanent resident to live legally in the USA, as long as they have a valid entry visa, if it is required for their country of citizenship. Many come to the USA on work visas of one kind or another, and bring their family members, who receive visas that allow them to stay and live in the USA, but do not grant the right to work here. They are considered non-resident aliens, and are living in the USA legally as long as their visa is valid. Citizens of some countries, Canada for example, do not require a visa to live in the USA, but they do require a visa (or permanent resident status) if they want to work here.

You assumed that having an EIN meant that an individual would be allowed to work freely in the USA, which is not correct. Having an EIN does not give one the unlimited right to work in the USA. If some of the business' income is being paid to a non-resident (meaning anyone who is not a citizen or permanent resident of the USA), that is one of the reasons why the business would require an EIN:  to "Withhold taxes on income paid to non-resident aliens". Unless the business' primary industry is in retail, I don't know if it would be valid to use it for a retail business on eBay. They would have to consult an international tax lawyer to find out.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/employer-identification-number.asp

[deltilogical]

Why doesn't he do what all the other noncitizens do - find someone else's SSN to use - every town has a bum district now that sells this stuff -  or get one off the dark web.    

[lacemaker3]

---

@deltilogical wrote:

Why doesn't he do what all the other noncitizens do - find someone else's SSN to use - every town has a bum district now that sells this stuff -  or get one off the dark web.    

---

That is insulting, disrespectful and incorrect. Most immigrants, 77%, are living in the USA lawfully.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/08/20/key-findings-about-u-s-immigrants/ft_2020-08-20_i...