eBay

sbattle · ‎07-13-2017

Just adding my voice as yet another cautionary tale for other sellers.

I sold a purse for $19 with free shipping. It was new with tags attached, but had very minor scuffs from storage, which I noted.

Buyer received package then claimed purse had other problems that I had not disclosed. Naïvely, I was surprised because I am a careful and responsible seller, and had examined the bag carefully before posting it.

I requested photos of the problems from the buyer; she claimed not to have a camera capable of capturing them. This seemed a bit fishy to me, but to be accommodating, I accepted the return through eBay anyway, and had Ebay email her a return label to be paid by me.

She then claimed to be having problems printing the label. She asked me to help, and I tried, but could not figure out a way to assist her or to send a second label.

Ebay then contacted me to tell me to provide her with a label. This initiated a very frustrating round of emails between me and Ebay, where I explained that I had already provided a label, etc etc. Each eBay response came from a new person who seemed not to understand the situation or to even be reading my emails. Meanwhile, as I reported to eBay during these exchanges, each time I try to pull up the case details, I got an error message.

Then, without responding to my last message at all nor requiring the buyer to return the item, eBay refunded the full purchase price to the buyer, and debited my PayPal account. So I'm out both the item and the money.

I posted this item responsibly, was responsive and helpful to the buyer even though her behavior was questionable, and tried repeatedly at some length to get Ebay to understand and help. At this point I have no idea what I could have done to avoid being shafted this way.

Ebay offered the option of calling them to appeal, but at this point I have already spent more time on an inexpensive item than it's worth, and have no confidence that talking to Ebay would lead to anything other than additional frustration.

Thank goodness I only lost $19. I'm done selling here though. If Ebay can do this to me on this item, they can do it to me on anything I list.

I've had friends tell me that Ebay is unfair to sellers, but I did not fully appreciate how true that is until now.

theheadphonecompany · ‎07-20-2017

As a rule of thumb i NEVER ask eBay to get involved - why should I unless forced? What does eBay know (about anything) beyond "refund the buyer". Its like an automiton, a robot - it only knows 1 thing and it repeats it ad nauseum.

Besides which, eBay doesnt actually SELL anything and most of thier employees DONT have a background in selling in etail, retail, wholesale - most brass are lawyers to boot.

I had this exact case, where the buyer played this game of "i cant print the label".

Ok go to a library and print it there, go to your church and print it there, go to your girlfriends house and print it there, get in your car and go to Staples - buy some toner and then GO HOME AND PRINT IT.

But eBay did a "magic Trinton" onme and extended the 5 days to 12. The case should have been closed in my favor there and then, but no. To make the buyer happy, we extend the time(s) that are written in eBay rules - just to damage the seller.

It seems that on eBay, buyers have ZERO responsibilities - since eBay needs their money DESPERATELY.

At the end I got threatened by CS "do it or get a strike" and so I did. But it only cemented the bad taste in my mouth for eBay and how it treats its sellers (like dirt or worse).

I seem to get all the bad ones. I was forced to take back an item "because its not as described - WRONG COLOR". OK ... the company ONLY makes it in 3 colors - which one did you get? I got NONE of the 3! DUH! can you say the buyer is lieing? Well you cant to eBay CS or eBay managers - but its simply MORE then obvious.

Ive got ALOT of these stories - where eBay simply lies to make its point - or maybe as we know now - its a HIDDEN rule created to punish sellers.

Its just so sad that eBay would do this to the very people who help it become a force in ecommerce!

As an aside - I was just offered a few different kinds of smartwatches (top 3 usual brands) - and I AM SCARED OUT OF MY WITS to post them on eBay? Why? Severe lack of "Seller Protection" (I believe in Kaiser Soze before I believe in "seller protection" ... great job there that my "partner" is doing for me.

mam98031 · ‎07-20-2017

I don't know what to tell you.

If it is clear in the Request for a return that the buyer wants to return something for buyer's remorse or if after asking a few questions it becomes crystal clear that it is buyer's remorse, I don't necessarily take the return. Depends on the situation as I take each one of my cases on its own merits. I do not make assumptions at all. I must admit, most times I do allow the buyer to return the item, but the buyer pays for return shipping and I do not refund the original shipping. Most buyers are reasonable people and this does not typically raise a problem for me. How you approach a buyer is extremely important as well, but I'm sure you know this.

It is very rare for me to have a Request escalated to a claim, then of course Ebay may force the return and make me pay for the shipping. But so far I've been successful in avoiding that. I'm sorry you haven't faired so well in these matters. I hope the future is better.

I must say this stuff about the label is annoying and unfair to the seller IMHO.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

bubbleman2010 · ‎07-20-2017

Mam so you have no problem paying ebay for a anchor store,but due to their mobile friendly policy your items are being hidden from potential buyers? and they haven't bothered to send you any type of notification about your listings being hidden?

theheadphonecompany · ‎07-20-2017

Well # 1 - I went NO RETURNS along time ago - FOR ME - it cuts out %75 of the issues with returns.

I get buyers that argue with the product packaging labels. Sir/Maam the back of the machine is "gold dot pattern", says so ON THE BOX (and not in my handwritting) AND on the distributors website.

"but I got it and its SILVER"

Like the case where the buyer seems to get an item that was never made - its EXACTLY these things and eBays attitudes towards them that need to change.

I RARELY get "normal returns" since %95+ of my customers are fantastic people who only want what they were promised in the time frame that it was promised in (we ship same day and most items are priority mail).

Its those bad apples - the ones eBay INSISTS on using (like here) as a yard stick to create new rules or bend/break them - just to prove what exactly?

I PROMISE you - that if eBay actually STOOD BY THIER SELLERS and didnt treat them like criminals (when the facts are clear as day) - it would go ALONG way to making everything on eBay better. Its just that eBay ONLY KNOWS ONE THING - refund the buyer, its all your fault so you pay for the shipping, we may or may not abide by the rules (for returns), and we may or may not give you a strike AND/OR hide your listings..... (funny how out of 50 states - 25 or so never seem to buy anything from me - and its been since 1998 .... funny.

springs_2013 · ‎07-20-2017

@advan.ltd3 wrote:
This happens all the time. Had a foreigner purchase 5 headphones and claimed they were filthy and broken and wanted a refund but not return the product. It is still on the returns list (he won't send them back) and my PayPal account has been debited the full amount pending receipt. So, with the fees and the horrible scams that are floating around it makes selling a real unpleasant experience. The number of scammers is escalating because word is out all they have to do is claim defective, damaged, or wrong item sent and ebay will give them their money back without any proof that this is true.

There's another scam that happens on eBay. A buyer buys an item to replace the exact broken item they have. Once the buyer receives it, they open a case or e-mail the seller the item is arrived broken. When seller ask for pictures, they will get a picture of the item they already have that's broken. If a seller ask for the item back, they will just send the old broken item and keep your good item. Sad but true.

mam98031 · ‎07-20-2017

@bubbleman2010

Mam so you have no problem paying ebay for a anchor store,but due to their mobile friendly policy your items are being hidden from potential buyers?

I said absolutely NOTHING about this.

and they haven't bothered to send you any type of notification about your listings being hidden?

Nor did I say anything about this either.

I get it, you are upset. But don't try to say I've said something I haven't just to try and further whatever point you are trying to make.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

gramophone-georg · ‎07-20-2017

@mam98031 wrote:
@bubbleman2010

Mam so you have no problem paying ebay for a anchor store,but due to their mobile friendly policy your items are being hidden from potential buyers?
I said absolutely NOTHING about this.

and they haven't bothered to send you any type of notification about your listings being hidden?
Nor did I say anything about this either.

I get it, you are upset. But don't try to say I've said something I haven't just to try and further whatever point you are trying to make.

Where did he say you said it? He asked if you were OK with it.

Chaos is NOT an "industry standard".

d-k_treasures · ‎07-21-2017

@sg51 wrote:
I will reiterate something I mentioned in a previous post - this has been our process for years and if anything discussed here has come as a surprise, it is a likely indication of how infrequently this issue arises for our sellers.

If you'd like to create deranged, hostile behavior, use this forumla:
1. Create a draconian punishment. Permaban after a very small number of felony convictions.
2. Make the definition of the felony something which allows for good sellers to randomly get hit out of the blue, while trying to do their best, and thinking they are following the rules.

Here's an example.

While the specifics of how a situation where a label unable to be used is not outlined, it is clearly stated that a seller has to provide return shipping costs when the item does not match the listing description.

Ok. Let's see how clear it is:

If a buyer asks us to step in and help with a return request, either because you didn't respond to a return request by the deadline or you and the buyer can't reach an agreement, we review the request and come to a decision. If we find in favor of the buyer, we refund the buyer directly and recover the amount of the refund from you. That amount includes the cost of the item plus the original cost of shipping. We either ask PayPal to remove the refund amount from your PayPal account, place the amount on your seller invoice or charge your payment method on file. We let you know when we're seeking reimbursement.

So seller agrees to accept the return, and has responded. But wait. Buyer reports that he can't print the label. Please, Trinton. Put yourself in the shoes of a seller who has just this much information. He knows he's likely to be permabanned if he goes wrong here.

How exactly is seller expected to be able to have any idea about what he needs to do, and by when?

What you've done is put a cautious, responsible seller into a position where the only logical choice is a refund with no return required. That will fix the problem safely. That's the ONLY way to guarantee avoiding harsh punishment.

And you've put a naive seller who just trusts "if I'm a good seller, I'll be fine" in great danger. Because that seller sure doesn't see in that policy where he's expected to send cash to buyer by some unknown date. And that good seller could very well tell buyer to take it up with ebay. BOOM

And what happens if a seller sends money for a label that supposedly the buyer can't print, and the seller gets back the return with that label actually used?

_____________________________
"Nothing is obvious to the oblivious"

ittybitnot · ‎07-21-2017

And what happens if a seller sends money for a label that supposedly the buyer can't print, and the seller gets back the return with that label actually used?

Let me guess....

The result will likely be the same as when a seller is required to "send money" for a return that never happens.

CS:

Sorry there is nothing we can do.

Part of doing business on the net.

We treat you like a business, therefore you should expect these losses once in a while.

mam98031 · ‎07-21-2017

@d-k_treasures

And what happens if a seller sends money for a label that supposedly the buyer can't print, and the seller gets back the return with that label actually used?

I asked that vary question earlier in the thread. The answer was we could report it to Ebay, but beyond that, you can guess how that would turn out!!

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

kh-ornesh · ‎07-21-2017

Hello everyone,

This thread is getting a bit heated and off-topic. Please remember that it’s fine to disagree with others, but discussion should always remain courteous and respectful and on-topic.

Thank you for your cooperation.

*eponymous* · ‎07-22-2017

As for your other point regarding policies not directly stated on the site, I can clarify that the vast majority of our policies are not publicly stated

eBay is entitled by the UA to make final decisions in cases. No further justification is needed.

Sellers don't object to eBay issuing courtesy refunds, the terms for which are also unpublished.

Returns are a minuscule part of selling, in any event.

Authorizing a return is a final decision for the seller. No appeal is winnable once a seller has authorized a return.

If eBay gave the OP a courtesy refund, that was their decision to make.

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one’s courage. ~ Anais Nin

jesusrocks3339 · ‎07-22-2017

Interesting read, I am still not sure what happened. The pics of the purse seem a little sketchy to me. I can see scuffs but really? Is is that hard to take pics of scuffs?

What was the mystery defect of the purse? Why was eBay asking for you to send another label? Without that I got nuthin' but speculation.

I too often end up wasting the most time on unimportant nonsense. If an item is not worth going to bat for let it go. But you can't have it both ways. The lesson that keeps on givin'....

mam98031 · ‎07-22-2017

@jesusrocks3339

Why was eBay asking for you to send another label? Without that I got nuthin' but speculation.

Because the buyer stated they could not access and/or print the label.

I too often end up wasting the most time on unimportant nonsense. If an item is not worth going to bat for let it go. But you can't have it both ways. The lesson that keeps on givin'....

The seller agreed to the return of the item. The OP isn't trying to get out of that. All this is about the buyer being unable to print or access the label sent by the seller. So the seller already understands the point you bring up, but that isn't the OPs issue.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999