Newer seller, First return request..

[tradecollections91]

Hey everyone, I just thought I'd reach out here to see it others have encountered a situation like mine.. I had listed some vintage collectables for a high dollar amount, almost 5 fingers. The buyer first messaged me to see if I'd trade outside eBay which I told him no, eBay only for a secure protected platform. He then tried to bribe me into taking PayPal explaining the fees were cheaper and I'd make more avoiding fees. At this point, I just thought, okay he's trying to scam me, let me ignore. He then offered a very reasonable offer and I accepted via eBay, figured I was safe. I next day aired and required signature, everything arrived perfectly (he sent me pictures) but he followed up with a return request saying they were not authentic and was pretty aggressive from the get go. I tried to talk to him about what he thought wasn't authentic about them and it seemed I proved him wrong so he went on to saying, my photos were fake and I was scamming. I then became a little attitudey back and asking for more photos of where some unique marks were on my items he received since he already showed he recieved and those photos looked perfect and also cause I knew the new photos I asked him to take would match my listing photos, to again prove him wrong and catch him in a lie with his new change of story of my photos were fake. He got even madder at this point and said well "I called a MAJOR company owner" in less than 6hrs of having and "he confirmed they were fake." I obviously knew this was a fib but still said okay, well if I could get proof of that convo to confirm, that'd be great. He then again, responding nasty demanding his money back or he'd leave a bad feedback. I did offer him a percentage back and for him to keep the items but he declined.. and please note I did NOT list returns were accepted on this item because it's a vintage high dollar item. Anyways.. I've opened a case with EBay now but no response yet.. Should I be worried? A person like this can't possible win and keep my items and money and I'd hope ebay wouldn't force a return, I know he would return an empty box. This is where I really hope these disputes are not automated and there is a real professional that can easily see this is buyer abuse. Also, what can I do to avoid this in the future. Thank you all so much! 

[dryophelia]

@tradecollections91 

Short answer, these cases are settled by bots in favour of the buyer.  

As soon as a potential buyer starts veering off of your listing-wanting something not listed, different shipping, pay how they want… it’s time to add them to your Blocked Bidder List. 
This would never happen to me because my business plan can not afford to list anything over $150, maybe $200. The loss is too great. I can’t imagine listing something for thousands of dollars. 
Your low feedback can give scammers the idea you are inexperienced so they try lots of angles to free you if your item and the money. Unfortunately, it seems they were right. 

[caldreamer]

Obviously, this person was out to scam from the beginning.   You should have blocked them BEFORE they purchased item.  

EBAY Money Back Guarantee (supersedes "no returns" policy) allows customer to claim "not as described" (you are forced to refund purchase price) plus shipping BOTH ways.   EBAY does NOT require customers to prove their claims.   EBAY only looks at return tracking# (not what is inside the box).    EBAY always rules in favor of buyer.

Any customers can "reverse credit card payment" (keep item and your money).   Never sell more than you are "willing to lose".

Sorry this happened to you!    Scammers target new sellers and people who sell "high value" items.   Unfortunately, there is no way to protect against scammers.

[tdumonde2014]

Give buyers the impression that you know what you're doing. You're asking $20k for this comic, even though one sold for $240.00 two months ago. Buyers look for sellers who are possibly out of their element.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/384409781923?hash=item59809bc6a3:g:~tYAAOSwLgxhUS67

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Beetlejuice-in-the-Neitherworld-1-CGC-9-8-HIGH-GRADE-Harvey-Comic-KEY-1s...

[dariudaudery_0]

Hmmm all i can say is don't start selling from such a high value. When you do sell something and you have no experience on eBay scammers are more likely to flock to you than someone who has 100+ feedback. 

You can only go ahead and accept the return, let buyer know that if different item or item not in the same condition is returned you will be filing fraud with post office and take legal action. 

While this scares few oppurtonistic scammers it won't save you most of the time. 

Once item is returned and if its the same item all you can do is refund the money and go on with your life.

If different item is returned you will need to file fraud with post office and possibly take legal action since item is of high value.

While most scammers are working on electronics category some will go into collectibles or will simply attempt to get something for free when they had all the intention to buy either way.

[candd205]

Too bad you filed the case yourself. That is going to cost you $20 if he wins (and he will probably win) , plus the entire cost of the item and shipping refunded to him, and he might wind up keeping the item too. You should have waited to allow the buyer to file the case, he might not have filed it. You 2 might have come to a compromise. Too late now. For an item this expensive, probably the only thing for you to do now is ride out the return process. Then if you lose you can take the person to court, maybe even get on TV on People's Court. I have seen eBay issues on court TV before. Video-tape yourself opening the package back from him with a witness. That won't work for your eBay claim, but it probably will work on People's Court on TV. Good luck.

[downunder-61]

The buyer first messaged me to see if I'd trade outside eBay which I told him no, eBay only for a secure protected platform. He then tried to bribe me into taking PayPal explaining the fees were cheaper and I'd make more avoiding fees. At this point, I just thought, okay he's trying to scam me, let me ignore. He then offered a very reasonable offer and I accepted via eBay,

I can't beleive you considered for a second that this buyer was going to be an honest buyer.

If this was not enough to suggest your would face the problems you are now having, then I apologise but I am having trouble sympathising with your situation.

What to do next time - BLOCK any buyer who attempts to take you off site and report them to eBay 

[soh.maryl]

One of the most important things you need to learn here as a seller:  You seem to believe that stating returns aren't accepted will protect you from a return and refund.

eBay's Money Back Guarantee trumps your "no returns" policy every single time.  All the buyer has to do is open an item not as described case and you will be sending return postage or label and refunding when you receive the item back.

If you believe otherwise, then it's time for you to re-read that MBG so you know what you're up against.

[fm2000]

Selling something here that is worth almost 10 grand as an individual is crazy. You can't sell things online you can't afford to lose. At nearly 10 grand, the odds of being scammed are high. Especially if you are a new seller. And high end designer brand items are even worse, they are a huge target for scams.

If anyone ever tries that "sell it off eBay" stuff, block and report them. This guy had danger written all over him. If someone sends you suspicious, annoying, or weird messages (like asking for a big discount because the item is their sick child's favorite color), block and don't sell to them. Even if they are not a scammer, they could be a lunatic which will cause you trouble later.

Anything you sell online can be stolen. Via a case with eBay, or by a credit card chargeback (lose all your money, your item and pay a $20 fee to add insult to injury.) If they don't win with eBay (rare they don't), they virtually never lose a chargeback.

[vintagecraze50]

You should have blocked this person and reported them to Ebay from the start for trying to get you to do a transaction off ebay. This had scam written all over it from the start.

[vintagecraze50]

How do you avoid this in the future? Do not sell these ultra expensive items on here with virtually no feedback as a new seller. You are prey to these scammers on here.

[vintagecraze50]

The only thing that can happen here is that if you do not dispute a chargeback they will be instructed to return the item. That is you best course of action. You may or may not get this this back if this person IS a scammer. 

[vintagecraze50]

There is only  thing that might help you here is the messages that this person sent you regarding making the deal off ebay. Ebay hates that becuase they would make zero money on the sale of this item, and it is totally against te rules for buyers do do this on here. That is your only chance here, and because  these scammers can use a credit card as a weapon they can chargeback these items, and it is then out of ebay’s Control. Learn a good lesson here from this.

[dbfolks166mt]

     Most of the responses have already provided lesson information. I am not sure what kind of case you opened with eBay as the seller. Could you elaborate more on that? One of two things is probably going to happen here. 

1. The buyer will open a INAD case through eBay and you will have to make a decision on how to address that. Suggest you accept the return and offer a full refund upon receipt of the returned item. You may in fact, as you stated, get back an empty box. If you receive the item back take it to a local police station when you open it and get witness confirmation of the contents of the returned package it may be the only chance you have of providing any type of proof if the buyer returns an empty box. Your other options are limited and will either force the buyer into asking eBay to step in or will cost you the item up front. EBay is going to side with the buyer 99.9% of the time and if they step in not only will they refund the buyer but they will allow them to keep the item and they will retain their fees. 

2. The buyer will simply ignore the eBay process and file a chargeback directly with their CC Company or bank. This takes eBay out of the picture since the decision is entirely in the hands of the CC Company or bank. Once again in 99.9999% of the cases, marginally worse than eBay, the CC Company is going to rule in favor of the buyer and fully refund. However, the CC Company is not worried about logistics and is not going to force the buyer to return the item. In addition eBay will retain their fees and if you contest the chargeback there is a good probability that you will also be charged a $20 processing fee. 

     If things go bad, which I suspect they will, and you do not get the item back you can file police reports with the buyers local police department as well as with USPS, if the box comes back empty, and the FBI cyber crimes division. What you can do as far as legal options depends on the final outcome of this mess. 

Despite the current case you still have a 5 figure comic listed for sale. You may want to reconsider whether you want that listing to be active. 

[gracieallen01]

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@tradecollections91 wrote:

Anyways.. I've opened a case with EBay now but no response yet.. Should I be worried? (YES, very worried.)  A person like this can't possible win and keep my items and money  (Yes they can.  This is ebay and they have no money on the table) and I'd hope ebay wouldn't force a return, (No, ebay won't force a return.  They don't care if it is returned and you say, by putting in 'No Returns', that you don't want it back) I know he would return an empty box. Well, you might get an old magazine)  This is where I really hope these disputes are not automated (Sorry, they are) and there is a real professional (you could pray that there is a real person - a professional is really pushing it) that can easily see this is buyer abuse (but, don't hold your breath).  Also, what can I do to avoid this in the future. Thank you all so much!

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Well, there isn't a whole lot of good news for you on this.  Hard lesson to learn and an expensive one.  There is nothing on ebay that someone can't steal.