11-21-2023 01:45 AM - edited 11-21-2023 01:46 AM
I've read so many horror stories about chargebacks on these boards.
I was under the impression that for a buyer it would be a piece of cake, but apparently not.
I bought 5 pairs of safety glasses from a online vendor.
I paid with PayPal.
These fragile glasses were shipped in a Priority Mail padded envelope.
They arrived totally crushed but the glasses appeared to be ok.
However two of the five glasses were opened.
Not just opened but the original packaging was missing.
Totally useless to me for re-sale.
I reached out to the vendor and was ignored.
Only when I filed a NAD dispute with paypal did they answer me.
All I wanted was to return the two glasses (at my expense) for a refund.
I didn't think that was unreasonable.
They told me NO because their ten day return window had passed.
I then escalated my paypal claim to a chargeback.
I thought to myself if there ever was a "slam dunk" for a chargeback, this was it.
Two weeks later I was notified by paypal that I lost the dispute.
Maybe doing a chargeback as a customer isn't so easy after all.
11-21-2023 08:34 AM - edited 11-21-2023 08:34 AM
@inhawaii wrote:
Only when I filed a NAD dispute with paypal did they answer me.
All I wanted was to return the two glasses (at my expense) for a refund.
I didn't think that was unreasonable.
They told me NO because their ten day return window had passed.
It sounds as though this was handled by PayPal as a return rather than a NAD dispute. I suspect that if you were planning on returning the whole kit and kaboodle as NAD, you would have been successful with your dispute.
Did you indicate the same intentions to return a partial shipment when you filed a chargeback with your card issuer?
11-21-2023 08:44 AM
You bring up a good point @marnotom! . PayPal allows you the opportunity to file a dispute for a partial $ amount. Did you file for the full amount or a partial based on 2 items being not as described @inhawaii ?
If you filed for partial then I stick to what I said above about the vendor's return policy being the reason you didn't win. If you can't show you tried to resolve this within the vendor's return window, that works against you.
11-21-2023 09:18 AM
The easy and fast way is to go online with your banking institution and dispute the purchase with your debit or credit card. It's all about how one does a credit card chargeback.
11-21-2023 09:24 AM
I'm not sure how PayPal or Adyen for that matter deal with CB's internally as they both are merchant account providers and aggregate processors. I can tell you when we were with EMS Systems as our merchant account provider Wells Fargo was our processor. Wells Fargo did the dispute mitigation as they are independent of the buyer bank card, account provider and our bank. This is why when we'd a charge back it was instantly $75 gone no matter the charge amount, $1, wouldn't matter. That was $25 to EMS Systems, $25 to Wells Fargo and $25 fee from our bank (Chase) for the pleasure of reserving the $1 from our account. We used processing software called PC Charge, lease, $1400 annually thereabouts and come pre-configured, that is to say, locked to the providers like a Cellphone might be locked to TMobile.
After some years we switched to Card Service International who is both a merchant account provider and an aggregate processor. Those units at CSI completely independent of each other. CSI had a web interface albeit we bought processing software outright called IC Verify and used that. However when a dispute of charge occur we could respond via the Web Interface .vs. snail mail and that save us $25 or more. That is to say, with EMS/Wells back in the day they only allowed snail mail arbitration.
So say, you're circumstance and we were the seller. Initially as I said, it cost us $75 instantly. We respond to the chargeback written, that's another $25. You the consumer respond to our written defense lets say, we in writing respond to that, another $25 fee. Card Service's web interface allowed us to manage disputes without that continual $25 fee everytime we respond.
Now with PayPal when they came unto the scene Card Service warned us because PP was fronted by the Deutsche Bank as I recall, based in Germany. That means they governed under differing laws that Card Service albeit Visa/MC have rules, no matter where. Discover and American Express were not options at PP at least at startup as those entities did not agree to terms apparently. We processed all four and obviously have to apply to become a merchant accepting them, Amex is by far the most difficult. Amex as a consumer card entity is also the most protective of their customers by far. If you recall back in the day Amex used to advertise on TV shopping all over the world w/ max protection.
All that said and done one can only assume that Adyen or PayPal CB units are also independent of the rest of the operations as independent arbitration needs be there. It is what it is but the question comes to bare about "Is there a better way for eBay as a company and what might that look like?"
Clearly eBay is and has made strides in that direction towards certain types of high risk merchandise with authentication services. When you consider scope of all merchandise, well, thats insanity and it still really doesn't address many problems. eBay can authenticate a Coach purse but when the customer gets it and claims in smooshed and damaged in transit, welp... Problems. There really doesn't exist a 100% way to properly protect sellers and buyers, thats a big problem here at eBay IMHO.
I'm 150% sure eBay has considered numerous mechanisms whereby better safety for transacting partners has been discussed but no matter how one looks at it, each comes with its own set of aggregated problems. Likely why the company sticks with feedback, simplicity that covers broadband scope.
Now folks be they sellers or buyers who have poor experiences care say, "eBay doesn't care about sellers", "Buyer: eBay only cares about their sellers." Reality be neither statement is true or factual, eBay cares about both, they have to. Its the balancing act that is a truly formidable challenge and literally there is no company in online transacting that has done this better than eBay, not a one. Of course when one's victim be that buyer or seller it sure wont feel that way but that doesn't change the reality.
11-21-2023 09:30 AM
I think you answered my question.
The O.P. did not buy the glasses on eBay. Is that correct?
I was wondering why they opened a case with PayPal and not through eBay.
11-21-2023 10:15 AM
@lacemaker3 wrote:
Perhaps you should have opened the chargeback with your credit card company directly, instead of with PayPal. (I didn't know that you could do a chargeback through PayPal, TBH.)
Can you still do that? Open another chargeback, and let your CC make the final decision?
I always figured that the CC was the final arbiter, after PayPal.
I can't speak for inhawaii but as for me I used my Paypal debit card to make the original purchase so Paypal was the right avenue to use for the charge back. There was neither a CC company nor my bank involved.
11-21-2023 10:16 AM
Line 3 of original post, "i bought from a online vendor"
I believe that indicates not EBay
11-21-2023 10:22 AM
OP sourced the items from the company that makes them in order to resell on eBay @sextons-sweet-deals . This is about inventory sourcing which is probably why this was posted on the selling board, not the buying board.
11-21-2023 10:51 AM
Adding another middleman - PayPal on a credit card transaction is not likely to help you when there is a dispute.
It adds delay to the process, and adds another set of rules.
I know lots of Ebayers are used to using PayPal to pay, but it may not be to their benefit when things go wrong.
11-21-2023 11:31 AM
I have to agree to another eBay post of: The race for most helpful Authors is on!!
11-21-2023 11:36 AM
What buying board?
Seems this post has nothing to do with an eBay transaction at all, so why is it even posted?
11-21-2023 12:03 PM
Doing a chargeback IS easy, you did not do a "chargeback" you opened a return claim for damaged in transit via PayPal.
If you had made a purchase from eBay and made the same type of payment claim but did not do it until more than 30 days after delivery the result would have been exactly the same.
If you had done a REAL chargeback the outcome would have been different. If you used existing funds in your PayPal account or a transfer from your bank account you wouldn't even be able to do a "chargeback".
This is why smart buyers, no matter where they shop always use a credit card for payment as that is the only way to ensure full protection.
11-21-2023 12:03 PM
Am I the only one who's now thoroughly confused about what's going on here? I thought the term "chargeback" referred to charge disputes made through a credit card issuer, but it looks as though some posters are referring to a "PayPal chargeback." All I know for sure is that @inhawaii went through two steps in order to make the return/get a partial refund.
My recollection of when I went through the PayPal buyer protection process years ago was that the buyer first files a dispute with PayPal which gives the seller and the buyer some time to work things out on their own. If that goes nowhere, then the dispute can be escalated to a claim where PayPal acts as an intermediary between the two parties. It's now sounding like this is what happened here, and @inhawaii has not filed an actual chargeback with their credit card issuer.
Has the term "chargeback" broadened in scope since my INR claim made through PayPal many years ago?
11-21-2023 12:27 PM
@sextons-sweet-deals wrote:What buying board?
Seems this post has nothing to do with an eBay transaction at all, so why is it even posted?
I thought I would post about my chargeback experience on this board that has lots of posts about chargebacks. Sorry if it offended you in any way. Feel free to...
A) Ignore it
B) Report it
C) Complain about it
11-21-2023 12:29 PM
@marnotom! wrote:Has the term "chargeback" broadened in scope since my INR claim made through PayPal many years ago?
No it hasn't! The word chargeback is misused here almost as much as the inability to correctly refer to buyers as buyers and sellers as sellers.
In the world of payments the word "chargeback" specifically refers to a dispute via a claim with the credit card company that issued the card used by a buyer.