Like New

[katzrul15]

Just curious - as a Seller, when you classify an item you are listing for sale, what does "Like New" mean to you?

What would make you not call it "Like New"?

[oneblindcat]

"I'd rather under-promise and over-deliver."

This right here! I believe that most sellers under-describe their items.

I don't know how many times I've left feedback that includes the phrase "Better than described" or "Much better than described".

Sellers who do this are pretty damned impressive, they also seem to be the ones who  pack the best and ship the quickest. Just my experience.

[katzrul15]

Great advice!

Lol at 20th century = 2000 and above.  🙃

I do not use Like New and am trying to understand those who do and how it applies.

I will often call something "previously enjoyed" and state it is still in VG condition.  If appears totally unused (like NOS), I might use EUC.  I don't use words like "mint", etc.  Too many issues!!

[ted_holland4pn4 · Accepted solution]

Grading any item is so subjective, and there are many standards to go by.  I use Goldmine standards for recorded media:

360001566193-How-To-Grade-Items

For vinyl, I don't use "Like New."  I will use Near Mint (NM) instead, but there are so few records I've ever come across that are NM, let alone M(int.)  Vinyl is so variable in terms of what you get right out of a sealed package.  I've seen vinyl right out of the shrink wrap with pressing artifacts, fingerprints, hairline scratches and mold release compounds all over it such that I'd grade it no better than VG.  For NM under my grading, it has to have:  NO defects at all on the outer cardboard sleeve (one minuscule corner ding might be OK if noted in defects,) no defects or wrinkles on the inner sleeve, never-been-touched inlay (or handled with white gloves,) and certainly no artifacts or visible imperfections on the vinyl, period.  The glossiness of the record should nearly blind you, the label is perfectly on-center with a pretty spindle hole, the record is pressed perfectly in round, there is not even a slight warp or bump (the tonearm should stay completely still while tracking,) and so on.  Preferably, it's never had a stylus dragged through it.  I've seen only about 4-5 examples of this high of a grade of vinyl in my lifetime and I've been spinning since I was very young.  Most vinyl that I see, even straight out of the shrink wrap, is typically VG+.

CDs are a little easier.  NM means no imperfections on the disc, period, no scuffs on the jewel case, the booklet has never been removed or touched (or has no imperfections or fingerprints.). Most CDs right out of the shrink wrap do meet NM condition, but few used discs I come across meet this standard, most are, as with vinyl, VG+.  Those I've opened but never played, I will list as NM as long as the booklet and case are perfect.

eBay says, for Movies & TV, Music, Video Games:

• Like new: The item looks as if it were just taken out of shrink wrap. It has no visible wear, and all facets of the item are flawless and intact. See the seller's listing for full details and a description of any imperfections.

To me, that means not even the outer case, even though replaceable, has any marks on it whatsoever, so unless it was just removed from the shrink wrap, I don't use this condition due to the words "all facets," and "flawless."

Then, things get crazy for other categories, like stamps, coins, books all have their own set of grading standards.

[katzrul15]

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@ted_holland4pn4 wrote:

Grading any item is so subjective, and there are many standards to go by.  I use Goldmine standards for recorded media:

360001566193-How-To-Grade-Items

For vinyl, I don't use "Like New."  I will use Near Mint (NM) instead, but there are so few records I've ever come across that are NM, let alone M(int.)  Vinyl is so variable in terms of what you get right out of a sealed package.  I've seen vinyl right out of the shrink wrap with pressing artifacts, fingerprints, hairline scratches and mold release compounds all over it such that I'd grade it no better than VG.  For NM under my grading, it has to have:  NO defects at all on the outer cardboard sleeve (one minuscule corner ding might be OK if noted in defects,) no defects or wrinkles on the inner sleeve, never-been-touched inlay (or handled with white gloves,) and certainly no artifacts or visible imperfections on the vinyl, period.  The glossiness of the record should nearly blind you, the label is perfectly on-center with a pretty spindle hole, the record is pressed perfectly in round, there is not even a slight warp or bump (the tonearm should stay completely still while tracking,) and so on.  Preferably, it's never had a stylus dragged through it.  I've seen only about 4-5 examples of this high of a grade of vinyl in my lifetime and I've been spinning since I was very young.  Most vinyl that I see, even straight out of the shrink wrap, is typically VG+.

CDs are a little easier.  NM means no imperfections on the disc, period, no scuffs on the jewel case, the booklet has never been removed or touched (or has no imperfections or fingerprints.). Most CDs right out of the shrink wrap do meet NM condition, but few used discs I come across meet this standard, most are, as with vinyl, VG+.  Those I've opened but never played, I will list as NM as long as the booklet and case are perfect.

eBay says, for Movies & TV, Music, Video Games:

• Like new: The item looks as if it were just taken out of shrink wrap. It has no visible wear, and all facets of the item are flawless and intact. See the seller's listing for full details and a description of any imperfections.

To me, that means not even the outer case, even though replaceable, has any marks on it whatsoever, so unless it was just removed from the shrink wrap, I don't use this condition due to the words "all facets," and "flawless."

Then, things get crazy for other categories, like stamps, coins, books all have their own set of grading standards.

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This is really insightful, especially your link!

Appreciate you sharing your expertise.  Don not sell in your area(s) but many reading this likely do.

Thanks!!!!

[bigdeals.etc]

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@silverstatetreasureboxes wrote:

@katzrul15 

Haven't read all the posts which I'm sure they are all great, but I like the word " gently used". I find the younger collectors gravitate toward that term better. I also refrain from using the term " 20th century" as again, the younger crowd believes it to mean year 2000 and above!

     I try to place the year if possible but if I cannot narrow it down exactly, I use circa 1950s or mid century.

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“Brand used” haha

[rasma5060]

There is  a  difficulty  in understanding  🤔

[ted_holland4pn4]

A lawyer maybe, but actually, I think you are out to truly please your customers.  Buyers are never happy if something is aggressively graded, but grade something conservatively and you get feedback like, "Item was in better condition than described!"  It goes far worse in the other scenario, from negative feedback to requests for full or partial refunds.  Even when I conservatively grade a record, my eyes, lighting, soundstage, turntable, tonearm, cartridge & stylus combination, amp, speakers, everything, are guaranteed to be different from the buyer's.  A $5,000 cartridge/stylus combo is going to sound much different than a $500.00 setup.  A lower-end direct drive turntable with a ceramic cartridge may be what the buyer has.  Even if auditioned on absolutely identical equipment, a stylus that has, say, 50 hours on it will likely sound different than one with more than 1,000 hours on it.  New speakers not yet broken in will sound different than those with many hours on them, and on...

For example, recently, I play graded a record before listing it, and it tracked perfectly on my setup with no errors.  When buyer played it, they reported mistracking on the very first track.  Mistracking is OK only in Fair, Poor, and Acceptable grades of records.  Most consumers, including myself, will not buy anything lower than VG, and that's only if it's a rare item.  Myself, I typically pass on anything lower than VG+.

[katzrul15]

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@ted_holland4pn4 wrote:

A lawyer maybe, but actually, I think you are out to truly please your customers.  Buyers are never happy if something is aggressively graded, but grade something conservatively and you get feedback like, "Item was in better condition than described!"  It goes far worse in the other scenario, from negative feedback to requests for full or partial refunds.  Even when I conservatively grade a record, my eyes, lighting, soundstage, turntable, tonearm, cartridge & stylus combination, amp, speakers, everything, are guaranteed to be different from the buyer's.  A $5,000 cartridge/stylus combo is going to sound much different than a $500.00 setup.  A lower-end direct drive turntable with a ceramic cartridge may be what the buyer has.  Even if auditioned on absolutely identical equipment, a stylus that has, say, 50 hours on it will likely sound different than one with more than 1,000 hours on it.  New speakers not yet broken in will sound different than those with many hours on them, and on...

For example, recently, I play graded a record before listing it, and it tracked perfectly on my setup with no errors.  When buyer played it, they reported mistracking on the very first track.  Mistracking is OK only in Fair, Poor, and Acceptable grades of records.  Most consumers, including myself, will not buy anything lower than VG, and that's only if it's a rare item.  Myself, I typically pass on anything lower than VG+.

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This is illuminating.............and I thought the categories we sell in were tedious at times!  lol

Great info, so glad I do not sell what you do!

[sextons-sweet-deals]

I don't think "like new" is an option on selecting condition when listing, but if you state "like new" or "mint" in description, then it is best to provide all details and photos possible in listing. 

I would also state "ask questions" before bidding or buying in listing. 

[ted_holland4pn4]

Like New condition is allowed only in the following selling categories:

• Books & Magazines
• Movies & TV, Music, Video Games

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/listings/creating-managing-listings/item-conditions-category?id=47...

[katzrul15]

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@ted_holland4pn4 wrote:

Like New condition is allowed only in the following selling categories:

• Books & Magazines
• Movies & TV, Music, Video Games

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/listings/creating-managing-listings/item-conditions-category?id=47...

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Yes, thank you.  Unfortunately, it is being used in about every category evidently.  And thus, the on-going issues with Sellers likely setting the wrong expectations of a Buyer, potential SNAD, etc.

Thanks - your posts have been really helpful, detailed and illuminating!

[rasma5060]

👍 👍

[amricons]

We had a long talk with eBay about using subjective terms like mint, perfect, or ie "like new" or even colors as  red can look different to different people but use  object terms such as a date  ie or facts. Not that buyers need any excuse to return an item but making subjective terms in " item specifics" makes it easier for on the border buyers to return things as there is no such thing as a "perfect item" or as eBay states in one item specific check off box.  ie: new = perfect, as so eBay would have sellers state as in the description box.     Or is red really,  ruby, pink glow orange, rosy, rosy peach etc , etc. or so a buyer may say your dress color not red when they want to return the darn thing which not only is the wrong color but not even a size 8.  Even more mysterious is when is a size 8 is not a size 8 or when is " is" not "is" as the man says in that famous case oh so long ago. 

Even on topic, there seems to be no single agreement, as it is a subjective specific and depends on a myriad of things and POV's.  Where oh where are those remove buttons.