It happened again - something wrong with item - but no return requested

[holubko]

I sell an item. Get message from buyer that something is wrong with item. Tell buyer to request refund and send item back. Then nothing happens.

So there are buyers out there that probably send a "something is wrong" note for every item that they buy.  Hoping that sometimes they will just get a full refund, and get the item for free.

I'm sure that Ebay can scan their data for buyers that actually file returns, and suspend those that file too many and abuse the system.

But does Ebay scan their messaging system for buyers that keep sending out these type of notes, just fishing for refunds ?

[jason_incognito]

No joke. 

I have a mattress pad I bought in May of 2017 that was a double instead of a queen. The packaging says a double, but the store had placed one of those coloful "queen" stickers on the bag. 

It sat in my trunk until right before Christmas when I finally took it out and it has been sitting here waiting for me to make a trip to drop off at Goodwill ever since. I just never go by that store.

[castlemagicmemories]

You're assuming these are not legitimate claims.  Many feel there is no such thing as a legitimate SNAD, EVEN when the damage corresponds to damage that was questioned in the listing pictures, and the buyer was told there was NO damage (seller didn't look at the item to check it). If a seller misrepresents something, it is a mistake.  When that buyer emails about that mistake, the buyer is a scammer.

I'm not saying that some buyers MAY unethically be seeking a partial refund when they shouldn't be.  BUT they may indeed be LEGITIMATE SNADS, in spite of the fact that the seller may not want to deal with that or consider it.

There is a VERY high incidence of legitimate SNADS.  Of my last four purchases, three came not as described.  

Many sellers fight every return tooth and nail, even if they take returns, and forget about legitimate SNADS.  Strings of abusive, hostile, accusatory, profanity laced emails may ensue designed to intimidate the buyer into abandoning the return.  This is a double edged sword, though~sellers won the battle but lost the war as honest buyers may have fled the site (sales are down)

This is a thread by well known, knowledgable sellers (and buyers) who detailed the high incidence of their purchases that came as a legitimate SNAD and the abusive, hostile, accusatory, and often profanity laced string of messages that ensued.  Truly horrible customer service.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/I-m-beginning-to-see-what-buyers-contend-with/m-p/27854770

I recall a thread by a buyer who bought all her Christmas presents on Ebay one year.  So many came not as described, that she lost her MBG coverage due to cases filed.  She said she would never buy Christmas presents on Ebay again.  Given the info on the above thread, it is very easy to realize that that could indeed happen and that the buyer may not have been a scammer, but the loss of significant purchases would affect all who she might have purchased from, let alone from all the friends and relatives she may have told about all the not as described items and horrible treatment.

Not every buyer is a scammer,  and not every SNAD is a false SNAD.

Perhaps consider if items listed are being inspected thoroughtly and an accurate and thorough description is being provided so the buyer can make an informed buying decision, without any surprises post sale.  

[castlemagicmemories]

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@ed8108 wrote:

Does opening a request, followed by a failure to return, most always suggest fraudulent intent & improper motivation by the buyer ?

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IMO, no.  Many just don't want to deal with the hassle of returning something.

Many buyers just want their widget.

Not every buyer is a scammer.

And regarding my previous post, three of my last four purchases came not as described~no cases filed, I can live with it.  BUT the point is should a buyer have to?  Should they put in that situation where they have to decide what to do?  Or have to weigh a return when their only mistake was to buy at all?  It is said, if it is good enough to keep, it is good enough to pay full price for.  BUT that does not consider the fact that the buyer did not get the item in the condition that was described and specified.  

[castlemagicmemories]

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@jason_incognito wrote:

I'm just amazed at sellers who know nothing about what they're selling........ sellers that buy used dvds at goodwill....... Sellers that didn't test their stuff before sending it, and if they did don't know what to look for..... jumping strait to calling the buyer a scammer when the buyer tries to watch the dvd and it doesn't work.

Sellers that never had the power cord getting upset when their buyer tells them the 50cent garage sale find is a dud and they want their $400 back that they paid for it.....

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Wish I could give you a bouquet of helpfuls for that...no, a truckload!

[castlemagicmemories]

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@ed8108 wrote:

Does opening a request, followed by a failure to return, most always suggest fraudulent intent & improper motivation by the buyer ?

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The buyer may just decide to live with the damage; they bought the item because they wanted it.  BUT they shouldn't have to settle.  Item should be in the condition specified.  

[castlemagicmemories]

Many sellers come to the Board irate because "they opened a case without contacting me first".  Yes, Ebay suggests they contact the seller first, but many buyers know that may just lead to the aforementioned strings of abusive messages, so they go right to opening a case~seller pays return shipping~ and they may also consider that the response would be return for refund anyway.  For those that have had bad experiences from contacting the seller, it removes the angst.  

[castlemagicmemories]

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@ed8108 wrote:

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@jason_incognito wrote:

You don't have to be dishonest.

There is something called "life" and it happens to most of us.

Some days going to the effort of returning something off eBay isn't a priority.  Many people, especially those using mobile, don't have ready access to a printer to print out a return label. Many people don't even know where their local post office is. Many people work during the hours that the post office is open and it can easily come down to "is it worth it to leave early to go to the post office"?

Ask around and see how many people have a roll of packing tape at their tiny apartment?

Why does it take so many people weeks and weeks to get a return to a brick and mortar store? I've had returns sit in my trunk for weeks while I "meant" to get over there and return it. I had one eBay return that sat in my trunk for over a month. All boxed up and a label on it. I finally just tossed it in the trash it had been so long.

Wonder if that seller decided I was a scammer just fishing for a refund? When what she sent me was total garbage.

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This is ebay, since the item was not returned, what other belief could the seller possibly hold? 

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I see what you are saying.   But reasonably one could assume that the buyer changed their mind, didn't want to deal with a return, etc.  

However, I realize that thinking may not happen.

[tamaralea]

They shouldn't have to settle if it isn't in the condition they expected.  THEY SHOULD SEND IT BACK.   Most packaging is re-useable.  I've turned poly mailers inside out and re-used them.  Yes, they would have to find some tape and they might have to print a mailing label.  Most of us ship USPS, which is easy.  You don't even have to go to a post office.  

I believe there are sellers refunding, without official returns, because they believe they will get a defect, as was the case with the old system.  And now it might start happening again, so you'll see more of it.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@tamaralea wrote:

They shouldn't have to settle if it isn't in the condition they expected.  THEY SHOULD SEND IT BACK.   Most packaging is re-useable.  I've turned poly mailers inside out and re-used them.  Yes, they would have to find some tape and they might have to print a mailing label.  Most of us ship USPS, which is easy.  You don't even have to go to a post office.  

I believe there are sellers refunding, without official returns, because they believe they will get a defect, as was the case with the old system.  And now it might start happening again, so you'll see more of it.

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Yes, they should return.  A SNAD doesn't cost the buyer return shipping, so if that is what the seller wants, that is what the seller may get.  But the buyer bought the item because they wanted it, and so they are put in the position of having to decide, do they want to give up that item, or should they just live with it, although they didn't get what they paid for?  And some may be intimidated by the barrage of hostility that can come even from TRS, and sellers who take returns, even if the damage can be (dimly) seen in the listing pictures.

But of course there are times where it is just so egregious, buyer says enough is enough, and returns as a SNAD.

Not every buyer is a scammer.

[buyselljack2016]

I had a return request. Interchangeability error on my part.

I accepted, with "return for refund", on my dime of course.

Then after looking at the address I did a full refund, and messaged the buyer to dispose of, or do what they may with the $40 item.

The buyer was in NYC. I decided to take the loss rather than have someone in an apartment in NYC go through the annoyance of boxing up a return, and getting it sent back. 

Fortunate. No defect, no feedback.  Well probably later this year when things are counted retroactively it may affect my account.

[goodluckselling]

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@tamaralea wrote:

I believe there are sellers refunding, without official returns, because they believe they will get a defect, as was the case with the old system.  And now it might start happening again, so you'll see more of it.

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I can guarantee you some sellers (raising my hand) will refund if a buyer request it through the message system.  Sometimes the total time involved which includes all parts of handling the returned item when it arrives which can be upwards of half hour or more is not worth the disruption to the daily routine.

• I should also say we sell new items that we have quantities of,
• and understand not all transaction will go without a problem
• and understand sometimes it is better to end any issues as quickly as possible
• and move on to other business related things.

Good Luck Selling!

[retrose1]

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@tamaralea wrote:

They shouldn't have to settle if it isn't in the condition they expected. 

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T^hat right there is 90% of the problem with returns on ebay.  The buyers get exactly what they bought - but since they didn't bother to actually read the listing - the item isn't what they expected.  And thanks to ebay, that is the sellers fault and the seller should be out money because of it.

Any buyer who makes a claim about a problem and doesn't follow through if told to return is a scammer.  They steal the sellers time and boost their stress level.  And any buyer that costs the seller money for no good reason in a return is a scammer.

[gew6463]

This is so true, and I am so happy every time you bring it up on these threads where sellers jump to the 'scammer' conclusion. I buy a large amount of vintage play food (to fill out sets) on Ebay, and I would say that 40% (or more) come 'not as described'. As in they are stated as 'very good conditon', then arrive with bite marks, serious scuffing, and very dirty (heavy smoke smell that wasn't advertised, and occasionally heavy pet hair). What is their defense: "well, it's vintage & used". ???  Vintage does NOT mean 'damaged', it denotes an age, not condition. I don't expect shiny new, but I have thrown some of this stuff straight into the trash. Also, the old "pictures are the BEST description" (and barely any description) defense. Again, NOT true. Pictures are not able to catch every little angle, or I certainly would not have bought something with a bite out of it (which you didn't take a picture of, OR mention in description). As a buyer who also sells, I was horiffied to find so many of my fellow sellers use these tactics. Don't even get me started on packing for shipping. Example: the 3 Rare collectible new-in-box sets I got this week. The seller wrapped ONLY in newspaper, so they banged around and ALL 3 came heavily damaged. Yet they are an experienced seller. And THERE my friends, to be fair, is where some of the buyers have gone. ALL it takes is one bad experience, and they may not buy again. And they will never know that YOU or I would never give service like that. But we may never get the chance to prove that. And I rarely return these items, because as mentioned, many sellers are BRUTAL  when you mention they misrepresented their item. 

'

[castlemagicmemories]

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@retrose1 wrote:

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@tamaralea wrote:

They shouldn't have to settle if it isn't in the condition they expected. 

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T^hat right there is 90% of the problem with returns on ebay.  The buyers get exactly what they bought - but since they didn't bother to actually read the listing - the item isn't what they expected.  And thanks to ebay, that is the sellers fault and the seller should be out money because of it.

Any buyer who makes a claim about a problem and doesn't follow through if told to return is a scammer.  They steal the sellers time and boost their stress level.  And any buyer that costs the seller money for no good reason in a return is a scammer.

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With all due respect, every buyer who doesn't return is NOT a scammer.

They bought the item because they wanted it.  Should they be forced to give it up because the description was inaccurate and the item is SNAD?  Yes, many seem to think so.  But despite the fact they did not get what they paid for, many settle because they either don't want to give up the item, they don't want the hassle of a return, or the ensuing seller hostility that can show in a barrage of messages, or they decide to settle, again, despite the fact that item was not in the condition specified (even if the damage may be dimly seen in the pictures, seller questioned, but says the item is fine without looking at the item)

Here is a thread by many well known and knowledgeable posters who are mostly SELLERS and the very high percentage of legitimate SNADS that they received and the abusive, hostile customer service~attempts to intimidate the buyer into abandoning a legitimate return.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/I-m-beginning-to-see-what-buyers-contend-with/m-p/27854770

The incidence of true SNADs is far higher than realized.  

Of my last four purchases, three were not as described.  I settled.  Should I have to?  No.  It happens.  These were unique items that would be hard to find, and I know buying on Ebay must be taken with a great deal of tolerance and a huge grain of salt.

I am not a scammer, nor is every buyer a scammer.  

[castlemagicmemories]

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@gew6463 wrote:

This is so true, and I am so happy every time you bring it up on these threads where sellers jump to the 'scammer' conclusion. I buy a large amount of vintage play food (to fill out sets) on Ebay, and I would say that 40% (or more) come 'not as described'. As in they are stated as 'very good conditon', then arrive with bite marks, serious scuffing, and very dirty (heavy smoke smell that wasn't advertised, and occasionally heavy pet hair). What is their defense: "well, it's vintage & used". ???  Vintage does NOT mean 'damaged', it denotes an age, not condition. I don't expect shiny new, but I have thrown some of this stuff straight into the trash. Also, the old "pictures are the BEST description" (and barely any description) defense. Again, NOT true. Pictures are not able to catch every little angle, or I certainly would not have bought something with a bite out of it (which you didn't take a picture of, OR mention in description). As a buyer who also sells, I was horiffied to find so many of my fellow sellers use these tactics. Don't even get me started on packing for shipping. Example: the 3 Rare collectible new-in-box sets I got this week. The seller wrapped ONLY in newspaper, so they banged around and ALL 3 came heavily damaged. Yet they are an experienced seller. And THERE my friends, to be fair, is where some of the buyers have gone. ALL it takes is one bad experience, and they may not buy again. And they will never know that YOU or I would never give service like that. But we may never get the chance to prove that. And I rarely return these items, because as mentioned, many sellers are BRUTAL  when you mention they misrepresented their item. 

'

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Thank you!  WIsh I could give you a truckload of helpfuls for that.

There is definitely a mind set that every buyer is a scammer.  Now I know the seller doesn't want to pay for return shipping.  I get that.  They don't want the item back.  I get that.  SO just list the item with an accurate description.  Possibly some really think no returns means, you are stuck with it, sucker!

I am NOT saying that some buyers don't read the description and then want a return.  I know that happens.

So the fight any and every return at all costs (or the if it's worht keeping, it's worth paying full price for, regardless of the fact the buyer did not get what they paid for) may cause the seller to win the battle, but lose the war.  Sales are down.  Buyers may not stick around after one bad experience, they move on, and they tell everyone they know how horribly they were treated.  Even those sellers on the thread I provided the link to admitted that while they have a loyalty to this site, that was severely stretched and in some cases, broken by the high incidence of true SNADs that they received.