Is this unethical?

[inhawaii]

I usually reach out to and/or refund and/or  re-ship when a customer's package is returned.

Last night I found 2 packages that were returned to sender (for whatever reason) months ago.

I never reached out to the buyers.

The buyers never reached out to me. 

I never refunded.

It wasn't a money issue. It was a "i forgot" issue.

A couple of questions...

#1) When you have an item returned, do you try to contact the buyer -or- wait for them to contact to you?

#2) If the buyer doesn't respond, do you automatically refund?

#3) Is there a time limit sellers have to refund a buyer/transaction?

#4) Is having a "no contact/no refund" if they don't contact you policy unethical? 

[gurlcat]

1) No
2)N/A
3) Only IF the buyer opened an INR or return
4) Nopety-nope!

I'm not saying I would go and spend it, in fact I'd be sure to leave the amount in my Available Funds for at least a month, in case they do reach out.  But if they don't, either they're no longer alive, incarcerated, or there was something screwy about the transaction from the start, for it to have an undeliverable address.  They might have even used a stolen credit card to make the purchase.  But you know what?  -If they didn't, then they can do a chargeback right on that card up to 90-or-whatever many days, if they're just so opposed to communicating like a normal person. 

[tarotfindsandmore]

Ethically, you should probably refund any item that is returned to you intact. 

Setting aside the moral conundrum, you probably should refund them for bookkeeping purposes if you're planning on relisting the items.  I'm not sure how closely you (or anyone) monitors the pennies in/pennies out, but if you do like having your books balance, and you're going to relist the items, you should refund them.  Otherwise, you're getting paid for the same items twice.  If you keep your books more loosey goosey, it doesn't matter.

[sin-n-dex]

---

@inhawaii wrote:

I usually reach out to and/or refund and/or  re-ship when a customer's package is returned.

Last night I found 2 packages that were returned to sender (for whatever reason) months ago.

I never reached out to the buyers.

The buyers never reached out to me. 

I never refunded.

It wasn't a money issue. It was a "i forgot" issue.

A couple of questions...

#1) When you have an item returned, do you try to contact the buyer -or- wait for them to contact to you?

#2) If the buyer doesn't respond, do you automatically refund?

#3) Is there a time limit sellers have to refund a buyer/transaction?

#4) Is having a "no contact/no refund" if they don't contact you policy unethical? 

---

Normally I contact them to let them know it wasn't delivered and came back to me, and asked what they wanted me to do. In one case I got no reply, and no new address to send (supposedly he'd moved), it got thrown into the pile, and I got it back months after i sent it, not even sure if I could still have refunded but I was willing to send it out again. Never heard from the guy, and I still have the item in my in box.

Another time I got returns that were a little weird and Stallion Express charged me a lot of money to get back three letters to the same buyer. I decided to wait and see if he contacted me (to combine his items into one package and send it out), he never contacted me, the money I paid to get it back exceeded the value of the $2 thing in the envelope so I just let it drop and I never heard from him.

Sometimes I get a return before I'm going offline and I don't want to drag things out, so I'll just refund to deal with it so it doesn't come and bite me as an INR while I'm away. I had one return from an address in Canada, I contacted him, no response, so I just refunded. I generally refund the postage too because in the case of all these refunds stuff is untracked, so if I don't refund the postage and they file an INR, I'm going to lose, so I preemptively deal with that.

C.

[reallynicestamps]

EBay does not require any refund at all if a shipment is Undeliverable.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

Which is the legality.

Of course, the buyer can start a Claim with their credit card, but eBay stands behind sellers on this point.

#1) When you have an item returned, do you try to contact the buyer -or- wait for them to contact to you?

Wait for them to contact me.

#2) If the buyer doesn't respond, do you automatically refund?

No.

#3) Is there a time limit sellers have to refund a buyer/transaction?

See above.  Undeliverable shipments are not covered by the MBG.

#4) Is having a "no contact/no refund" if they don't contact you policy unethical?

YMMV.

Sometimes the shipment has been Refused. I have seen this with international shipments where the buyer refused to pay import fees.  Again, no MBG coverage.

[simply-the-best-for-you]

If they can't be bothered to use their words & tell me what's going on, I don't do anything.  When pkgs unexpectedly show up, I put them aside & keep them there til I hear from the buyer.  Most of the time, I never do. 

I've never really thought about whether it's ethical or not.  It's how the group that mentored me taught me.   I guess I feel like my time is worth something & I'm not going to spend a lot of time/effort to chase you down if you can't keep up with your own purchases.   So, I guess I really don't consider it unethical. 

[iamalwaysright]

---

@simply-the-best-for-you wrote:

If they can't be bothered to use their words & tell me what's going on, I don't do anything.  When pkgs unexpectedly show up, I put them aside & keep them there til I hear from the buyer.  Most of the time, I never do. 

I've never really thought about whether it's ethical or not.  It's how the group that mentored me taught me.   I guess I feel like my time is worth something & I'm not going to spend a lot of time/effort to chase you down if you can't keep up with your own purchases.   So, I guess I really don't consider it unethical. 

---

Yea it's sorta like the idea that if a buyer doesn't want to spend time and effort on their purchase, then why should I? My shipping obligation was fulfilled.

It's a bit similar to when buyers message me about INR but tracking shows delivered and I suggest they check with their neighbor and/or mail carrier with a package description. Sometimes I get the response "Hey I'm a busy person. I don't have time for this. YOU GO check with my mail carrier." Then I'm all like as far as I'm concerned, USPS says you your item was delivered and just reply "Okay, thanks and good luck locating your item."

[12345jamesstamps]

I never contact buyer.

I don't refund...refund might end up as a donation for the eBay Summer Picnic where buyer might not be  registered any more.

Buyer might be someone seeing if a credit card not theirs works to buy items on eBay using you as bait. I have more returns than you...LOL

Never hear from these buyers.

I

[gurlcat]

HOLY COW! 
And I thought I was just being a sicko when I said "no longer alive," but you literally got one that SAID "DECEASED" !    -So your buyer DIED waiting for your your item?  Oh James .....

[simply-the-best-for-you]

---

@iamalwaysright wrote:

---

@simply-the-best-for-you wrote:

If they can't be bothered to use their words & tell me what's going on, I don't do anything.  When pkgs unexpectedly show up, I put them aside & keep them there til I hear from the buyer.  Most of the time, I never do. 

I've never really thought about whether it's ethical or not.  It's how the group that mentored me taught me.   I guess I feel like my time is worth something & I'm not going to spend a lot of time/effort to chase you down if you can't keep up with your own purchases.   So, I guess I really don't consider it unethical. 

---

Yea it's sorta like the idea that if a buyer doesn't want to spend time and effort on their purchase, then why should I? My shipping obligation was fulfilled.

It's a bit similar to when buyers message me about INR but tracking shows delivered and I suggest they check with their neighbor and/or mail carrier with a package description. Sometimes I get the response "Hey I'm a busy person. I don't have time for this. YOU GO check with my mail carrier." Then I'm all like as far as I'm concerned, USPS says you your item was delivered and just reply "Okay, thanks and good luck locating your item."

---

@iamalwaysright  ITA on the ones that show up.  I DO however always go the extra mile on the INR's that show delivered.  The reason I do though is b/c I tend to have a very honest buyer demographic & every single time, it's been a mis-delivery.   In all my years I only had 1 pkg never show up & I was never sure if she was lying or not.   All the others eventually proved to be misdeliveries.  Having just had a 10K check that was sent to ME priority that was misdelivered, I appreciate people going the extra mile.  It's something I can relate to cuz I have a cluster mailbox & it happens to me a lot more than it should.   We don't have a choice to NOT have a cluster box 😡 so I feel for people who are forced into it. 

That said, if I had a sketchier buyer demographic, I would adopt your stance.   I remember there was twice I thought the buyer was lying & kinda blew them off with the whole 'check w/your neighbors' thing & one of them could tell I didn't believe her.  Pkg got delivered by a neighbor the next day so even when I've been suspicious, they were telling the truth. 

[sin-n-dex]

---

@simply-the-best-for-you wrote:

---

@iamalwaysright wrote:

---

@simply-the-best-for-you wrote:

If they can't be bothered to use their words & tell me what's going on, I don't do anything.  When pkgs unexpectedly show up, I put them aside & keep them there til I hear from the buyer.  Most of the time, I never do. 

I've never really thought about whether it's ethical or not.  It's how the group that mentored me taught me.   I guess I feel like my time is worth something & I'm not going to spend a lot of time/effort to chase you down if you can't keep up with your own purchases.   So, I guess I really don't consider it unethical. 

---

Yea it's sorta like the idea that if a buyer doesn't want to spend time and effort on their purchase, then why should I? My shipping obligation was fulfilled.

It's a bit similar to when buyers message me about INR but tracking shows delivered and I suggest they check with their neighbor and/or mail carrier with a package description. Sometimes I get the response "Hey I'm a busy person. I don't have time for this. YOU GO check with my mail carrier." Then I'm all like as far as I'm concerned, USPS says you your item was delivered and just reply "Okay, thanks and good luck locating your item."

---

@iamalwaysright  ITA on the ones that show up.  I DO however always go the extra mile on the INR's that show delivered.  The reason I do though is b/c I tend to have a very honest buyer demographic & every single time, it's been a mis-delivery.   In all my years I only had 1 pkg never show up & I was never sure if she was lying or not.   All the others eventually proved to be misdeliveries.  Having just had a 10K check that was sent to ME priority that was misdelivered, I appreciate people going the extra mile.  It's something I can relate to cuz I have a cluster mailbox & it happens to me a lot more than it should.   We don't have a choice to NOT have a cluster box 😡 so I feel for people who are forced into it. 

That said, if I had a sketchier buyer demographic, I would adopt your stance.   I remember there was twice I thought the buyer was lying & kinda blew them off with the whole 'check w/your neighbors' thing & one of them could tell I didn't believe her.  Pkg got delivered by a neighbor the next day so even when I've been suspicious, they were telling the truth. 

---

I put in a missing mail request and follow up with the buyer's post office because misdeliveries do happen (and I've had buyers tell me their neighbour brought it over a couple of days after it said delivered and they said they didn't have it).

I did get one though... it was an auction starting at 99 cents. He offered $35. I said no, I'm letting the auction run. He bid the price up to $255, I shipped, it showed delivered, and then he filed an INR telling me he didn't actually receive it and wanted a refund. He said the INR is so he could let eBay know what's going on (as if they're actually paying attention), and then he tells me he filed a missing mail with his post office but wants me to do the same and then refund his money.

I filed the missing mail, got ahold of his post office, got ahold of the letter carrier who said he knows this guy and delivered the letter to him as he was supposed to, and gave me all sorts of details about the neighbourhood and what not, how it was a gang box and the neighbourhood is affluential so it's unlikely someone would have stolen it (I thought gang boxes were locked, at least they are in Canada). The INR closed out and I won, and I never heard from him again.

I did find out he is a dealer in Europe (having items shipped to a friend in the US), and notified everyone in my inner circle not to buy from that dealer because he tried to rip me off. I blocked the account, he used his other account which sent to a freight forwarder in Delaware when he wanted to buy from me again. I didn't block the second account because I didn't want to tip him off that I knew it was him on another account. I figured if he tried the "I didn't get it" with the freight forwarder I'd show my cards about how I know what's going on.

I told my dad this whole story when it happened and dad said "he bid the price up to $255 because he never had any intention to pay for it", and I know he did get it because it was for sale on his website in Europe (which of course he doesn't know that I figured out who he is).

I do an amazing amount of digging on someone who tries to scam me for more than a few dollars. Some of my friends in our community in Canada were buying Euros from him regularly because the prices were good, but word is getting around, and some of my friends deal with people around the world. It was not smart for a well known dealer to attempt to cheat me.

So I'm a little suspicious with INRs because of that experience, but I will follow up with a missing mail claim and try to help (since usually it is actually a misdelivery).

C.

[simply-the-best-for-you]

---

@sin-n-dex wrote:

---

I filed the missing mail, got ahold of his post office, got ahold of the letter carrier who said he knows this guy and delivered the letter to him as he was supposed to, and gave me all sorts of details about the neighbourhood and what not, how it was a gang box and the neighbourhood is affluential so it's unlikely someone would have stolen it (I thought gang boxes were locked, at least they are in Canada). The INR closed out and I won, and I never heard from him again.

---

@sin-n-dex  Cluster boxes in the US are locked.  But, items can be put in the wrong box or the key to a 'package box (the bigger ones)' can be left in the wrong mailbox, so it is still possible for someone to steal your item.  Most people are honest & will bring it to the neighbor or take it back to the PO, but if the person is not honest, they can keep the item.  I had a regular who had a nasty neighbor that she was sure kept all her misdeliveries 😞 

[slippinjimmy]

#1 - I send the buyer one message

#2 - No, I hold the item......literally until I drop dead or move into assisted living

#3 - To refund via eBay? I'm not sure 30 or 60 days?

#4 - If I understand your question correctly (it's not perfectly clear) I would not consider this to be unethical

[sakic92710]

I think it happened to me twice.  I never contacted the buyer nor refunded.  If the refunds just end up in limbo, we are only throwing money away.  One time, after a few months, a package was returned from Hong Kong.  A 2nd time, a bubble mailer was returned so I attempted to ship it again.  It was returned again.  No one was picking it up.  Never heard a word from either buyer.  Passed away?  I guess it is bound to happen if you sell enough.

[chapeau-noir]

I contact the buyer.

If I don't hear from them in like a week, I refund them item price only.

I resell the items.