INR due to USPS error

[sin-n-dex]

I have a buyer who contacted me (INR not filed yet) to say he doesn't have his package.

This is what tracking shows:

May 23, 2021, 12:35 am
Awaiting Delivery Scan
The delivery status of your item has not been updated as of May 23, 2021, 12:35 am. We apologize that it may arrive later than expected.

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May 22, 2021, 6:35 am
Out for Delivery
EAST NORTHPORT, NY 11731 

What are my options for dealing with this? (Aside from nothing since there's no INR yet... I'm sure that will come as soon as he's able to file it).

C.

[titipeo]

When it is supposed to be dleivered? Have you submitted a "wheres is my mail" tracking request to the USPS? 

INR is only valid passed the delivery date. You need to see if there is some sort of movement from USPS, otherwise eBay will rule in buyers behalf, issued the refund. the package will eventually show up, buyer receives item for free, and you are out of the item and $. that's how it will work. At least try to get some sort of proof of movement within the USPS system. I would have started that on the 25/26

[shag182]

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@sin-n-dex wrote:

I have a buyer who contacted me (INR not filed yet) to say he doesn't have his package.

This is what tracking shows:

May 23, 2021, 12:35 am
Awaiting Delivery Scan
The delivery status of your item has not been updated as of May 23, 2021, 12:35 am. We apologize that it may arrive later than expected.

---

May 22, 2021, 6:35 am
Out for Delivery
EAST NORTHPORT, NY 11731 

What are my options for dealing with this? (Aside from nothing since there's no INR yet... I'm sure that will come as soon as he's able to file it).

C.

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Yes, seems like USPS delivery is getting sloppy these days. Yes, I've experienced 3 of these OUT for DELIVERY, then the "Awaiting Delivery Scan" status since the holidays.

From my experience, the delivery person forgot to scan the item before delivering the package.

Lucky for me, I message my buyers, and each one told me they received the item.

UNlucky for you, either your buyer sees the awaiting delivery scan and is pulling some shenanigans on you for a FREEbie.  I would message the buyer back that you will open up a "finding missing mail" case, so their PO can follow up on where the package is. If the buyer does indeed have the package, it may bring him/her to tell you they have it now. 

If not, just follow through with opening up a "finding missing mail" case.

All the best.

[sin-n-dex]

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@titipeo wrote:

When it is supposed to be dleivered? Have you submitted a "wheres is my mail" tracking request to the USPS? 

INR is only valid passed the delivery date. You need to see if there is some sort of movement from USPS, otherwise eBay will rule in buyers behalf, issued the refund. the package will eventually show up, buyer receives item for free, and you are out of the item and $. that's how it will work. At least try to get some sort of proof of movement within the USPS system. I would have started that on the 25/26

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Most buyers are honest and it's not necessary to chase down tracking information on every package. I don't concern myself with it until I get a message that an item is not received. It's a frequent problem of things not being scanned when delivered, but not a frequent occurrence of INRs.

I did the missing mail thing and got an email from the buyer's post office. I'm carefully crafting how I'm going to respond to the eBay message when I finish work in a bit.

C.

[sin-n-dex]

I haven't contacted anyone to see if they got their item, because that would imply that I don't know the answer. When they say they don't have it, then what am I supposed to do? Better to let them contact me if they don't have it, and we'll take things from there.

I've often said the type of item matters a lot, and this particular type of item is a good thing to receive for free. (Other things I sell have no value except to collectors, or selling to another collector, but this is a good liquid type of coin where the buyer can easily get back most of what he paid if he sold it right away).

In my profile, this particular buyer is what I type as an "opportunistic scammer". They don't actively go out to deceive people, but if there's an error where something can wind up in their favour, even unethically, they will pursue that. I've known of many opportunistic scammers in my lifetime to recognize the behaviour. Generally when a scam becomes too much work or too risk, they back down.

I'm already working on what to do about this unscanned package.

C.

[wastingtime101]

Either the package wasn't delivered or the buyer is an opportunist, taking advantage of the lack of a delivery scan.

I usually call the buyer's PO as soon as possible. I ask them to find out from the carrier if it was delivered and I describe the package. If the carrier remembers the package they will usually update the delivery scan for you. If not then you're SOL and at the mercy of the buyer.

[modulok!]

USPS definitely getting sloppy.  I've had 4 of these out for delivery then awaiting delivery scan situations in the last 2 weeks...that's a lot.  All different states.  The bad news is, you are SOL and at the complete mercy of your buyer.  Open a Package Research Case and it just closes a few days later.  Open a missing mail search and nothing ever happens.  I've even called the local post offices and all they say is that the carrier definitely remembers delivering the package but they won't do anything else beyond that (will not change the status to delivered).  They say if you have insurance go ahead and file a claim and the USPS will pay off the claim because they cannot prove the package was delivered.  If no insurance then too bad.   If you have an opportunistic scammer buyer then you will be refunding...unfortunately that is the long and short of it.  Sorry, it stinks but that is the way it is now (at least my experience).

[katzrul15]

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@sin-n-dex wrote:

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@titipeo wrote:

When it is supposed to be dleivered? Have you submitted a "wheres is my mail" tracking request to the USPS? 

INR is only valid passed the delivery date. You need to see if there is some sort of movement from USPS, otherwise eBay will rule in buyers behalf, issued the refund. the package will eventually show up, buyer receives item for free, and you are out of the item and $. that's how it will work. At least try to get some sort of proof of movement within the USPS system. I would have started that on the 25/26

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Most buyers are honest and it's not necessary to chase down tracking information on every package. I don't concern myself with it until I get a message that an item is not received. It's a frequent problem of things not being scanned when delivered, but not a frequent occurrence of INRs.

I did the missing mail thing and got an email from the buyer's post office. I'm carefully crafting how I'm going to respond to the eBay message when I finish work in a bit.

C.

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Well, the good news is you can buy some time due to the Holiday weekend.  A reasonable person would understand that getting an answer from USPS over a major Holiday weekend might be tough to do.

I would indicate that you will 'attempt" to get an answer from USPS, however, due to the Holiday weekend, it might be Tuesday, at the earliest, before you "know" anything.  Good luck!

[sin-n-dex]

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@wastingtime101 wrote:

Either the package wasn't delivered or the buyer is an opportunist, taking advantage of the lack of a delivery scan.

I usually call the buyer's PO as soon as possible. I ask them to find out from the carrier if it was delivered and I describe the package. If the carrier remembers the package they will usually update the delivery scan for you. If not then you're SOL and at the mercy of the buyer.

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The buyer's PO contacted me to tell me he would look into it. It appears we are doing communication via email.

I responded to the buyer to tell him I did a missing mail report and have been in contact with his post office. I'm letting things cool off over the weekend to see if the package magically turns up.

I'm inclined to believe it was delivered and not scanned.

C.

[sin-n-dex]

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@katzrul15 wrote:

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@sin-n-dex wrote:

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@titipeo wrote:

When it is supposed to be dleivered? Have you submitted a "wheres is my mail" tracking request to the USPS? 

INR is only valid passed the delivery date. You need to see if there is some sort of movement from USPS, otherwise eBay will rule in buyers behalf, issued the refund. the package will eventually show up, buyer receives item for free, and you are out of the item and $. that's how it will work. At least try to get some sort of proof of movement within the USPS system. I would have started that on the 25/26

---

Most buyers are honest and it's not necessary to chase down tracking information on every package. I don't concern myself with it until I get a message that an item is not received. It's a frequent problem of things not being scanned when delivered, but not a frequent occurrence of INRs.

I did the missing mail thing and got an email from the buyer's post office. I'm carefully crafting how I'm going to respond to the eBay message when I finish work in a bit.

C.

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Well, the good news is you can buy some time due to the Holiday weekend.  A reasonable person would understand that getting an answer from USPS over a major Holiday weekend might be tough to do.

I would indicate that you will 'attempt" to get an answer from USPS, however, due to the Holiday weekend, it might be Tuesday, at the earliest, before you "know" anything.  Good luck!

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I actually got an answer within two hours from a person who gave me a name, post office and phone number. I shared this with the buyer to let him know I'm serious about looking into this. (I am serious, but I suspect I know the outcome).

I'll keep you updated if anything changes.

C.

[katzrul15]

Another Buyer thief.  BTNs for short (Buyer thief nimrods)..  E-bay won't let me type what I call them out loud.  

I am SO over all the theft and carpola.  Sending you virtual chocolate.  (tell your BTN Buyer that Guido is coming by his house to  help him search the porch and bushes and see if they can help him locate his parcel.  😈)

[sin-n-dex]

So I opened a Missing Mail claim, got a message from the postmaster (automated most likely) with contact info for his post office. I notified the buyer of all that I was doing to make sure his package is delivered and his immediate response to that was to actually open an INR.

In the INR he says he wants the item (not a refund). He says it's taken too long to deliver the package. He also said he opened the INR so eBay knows he doesn't have his package. When I check tracking (in my eBay) it shows that an investigation was opened this afternoon (as the latest tracking info), however on USPS website this info doesn't show.

eBay says they can put a case on hold if there's an update with the tracking number within 7 days of the expiry for me to refund (without him asking eBay to step in). So that would be next Friday, but I have until Thursday to respond.

What is the likelihood that they'll update the tracking so I'm off the hook with this case? I have the postmaster's name and phone number. Do you think calling there would help?

C.

[katzrul15]

I would call tomorrow - with the Holiday on Monday and closed Sunday, maybe someone can get it jump started for next week?

[couldabeenworse]

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@sin-n-dex wrote:

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I'm inclined to believe it was delivered and not scanned.

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Why?  There is no evidence to support that belief. 

Regardless, if there is no delivery scan and the buyer claims it never arrive, your obligation is to refund in full and file the insurance claim.

[sin-n-dex]

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@couldabeenworse wrote:

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@sin-n-dex wrote:

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I'm inclined to believe it was delivered and not scanned.

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Why?  There is no evidence to support that belief. 

Regardless, if there is no delivery scan and the buyer claims it never arrive, your obligation is to refund in full and file the insurance claim.

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Just call it a hunched backed up with 5 years on this forum and 21 years selling on eBay... Scammers have patterns that are easy to identify, the problem is sometimes you can't tell you're dealing with a scammer at the time of purchase (my intuition doesn't go that far...)

Right now there's a case open with USPS to investigate (as soon as I filed a lost package case the buyer demanded a refund instead of waiting for his package to be found - if it was actually lost in the first place), and eBay will put my case on hold for 10 days on June 2 if there's no activity to close out the INR. (I've confirmed they will send me an email with details, as I do not take the word of a CSR without proof to back it up in the event things go south).

Furthermore, I've been in a job for 13 years where I deal with scammers of all types every day... lots of them are opportunistic scammers, but some of them set out to do a scam. Liability insurance department is rife with scams of people trying to get something for nothing. So while I can't prove that I've been scammed on eBay, I certainly know I have been.

C.