05-30-2023 09:14 PM
Yesterday, I listed a lot of old Pokemon cards which were purchased less than 2 hours later. The buyer then began to bombard me with messages asking questions about the listing (questions which were all answered in the description) and requesting additional photos after I had already packed them all up in the shipping box. I acquiesced, sent him more photos and answered all his questions, but he just kept going and going. I spent the entirety of Memorial Day trying to satisfy this customer. He eventually requested that I ship the most valuable cards in special sleeves that I don't possess, in an attempt to change the terms of the transaction AFTER the point of sale (again, the listing clearly stated how all the cards would be packaged and shipped).
I then noticed the seller was in a different country (Australia), and I do not ship internationally. He circumvented this by using a 3rd party shipper with a U.S. address. This, along with him waiting to ask questions and make requests AFTER the point of sale, made me very suspicious, and after consulting eBay's own policy, which clearly states that if a buyer attempts to change the terms of a transaction after the point of sale the seller has every right to cancel a transaction, I did just that. I relisted the item, and it was purchased again soon afterwards (more on that below).
The original purchaser left negative feedback on my account regarding the cancelled sale. That is extremely unfair. I did put in a request to have the buyer's negative feedback removed and outlined precisely what I've typed here, but within 30 minutes the request had been denied, despite the fact the buyer literally admits in his negative feedback that he waited until AFTER the purchase to ask any questions or make any requests, and despite the fact that his correspondence proves he attempted to change the terms of the transaction after the point of sale. This has really upset me, because I take pride in my reputation on this platform.
As stated above, I relisted the lot in question, and within hours I had received two messages about it...from Australians on low-feedback accounts. My store is very, very small and receives very, very little traffic, and it seems very suspicious that I would receive multiple inquires from the same foreign country on the same day regarding the same item that had just been relisted. Furthermore, it turns out the eventual buyer...wait for it...is an Australian using a 3rd party shipper with a U.S. address. I immediately messaged the buyer and flat-out asked if he was the same person on a sockpuppet account, and he said no, so I have to give him the benefit of the doubt and ship his purchase. I've done everything properly on my end from the start, yet here I am with a duly unjust negative feedback hit and a sneaking suspicion that I'm being scammed by a sociopath. It was crystal clear the original buyer was never going to be satisfied with the transaction no matter what I said or did or how many hoops I jumped through, and I cannot help but worry that the 2nd buyer is the same individual on another account planning to hit me with a 2nd negative feedback on the same box of merchandise. It really sucks that I don't have any further recourse here, and I'm seriously considering moving my business to a platform that actually looks out for its sellers, and does not turn a blind eye to manipulative and downright crooked buyers.
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06-05-2023 03:18 PM
06-05-2023 08:49 PM
They refused to remove it. They won't even investigate.
06-05-2023 08:57 PM
I've been dealing with eBay customer service for nearly 8 hours now. They won't remove the feedback, despite proof the 1st buyer attempted to change the terms of the transaction after the point of sale. They won't investigate the near-certain correlation between the 1st buyer and the 2nd buyer (both accounts from Australia, both of whom purchased the item almost immediately after it was listed and relisted, both using 3rd party shippers with a U.S. address, both causing tons of issues for a very small eBay store on the other side of the world within 24 hours of each other, along with an additional Austrlian account I managed to block before they made mischief...there is no rational explanation for why I was being bombarded by traffic from Australia on the same weekend other than structured fraud). They won't investigate the mathematical impossibility of the 2nd buyer having even received the package yet in order to inspect the contents. I've spoken to over a dozen CSRs, and they won't lift a single finger to help me. I know beyond the shadow of a doubt I'm being defrauded, and they know it too, but "there's nothing we can do" is eBay's new hotness, apparently, and as soon as I find a safer platform from which to sell, I'm done here.
06-05-2023 09:01 PM
Great advice, Poindexter!!! You're absolutely right, which is why I'll be closing my account as soon as I find another platform that actually protects its sellers from structured fraud!
06-05-2023 10:28 PM
You're missing the point. The seller does not want his or her items shipped overseas while they, as a seller, still maintains responsibility. The use of a freight forward service by-passes these wishes, because as Ebay states, the seller is still fully responsible...unless, and this is the key part, the buyer states in writing, "I'm using a freight forward service".
06-05-2023 10:30 PM
Same as I wrote in response to @hawaii
The seller does not want his or her items shipped overseas while they, as a seller, still maintains responsibility. The use of a freight forward service by-passes these wishes, because as Ebay states, the seller is still fully responsible...unless, and this is the key part, the buyer states in writing, "I'm using a freight forward service".
06-05-2023 11:06 PM
@cardxcraft wrote:You're missing the point. The seller does not want his or her items shipped overseas while they, as a seller, still maintains responsibility. The use of a freight forward service by-passes these wishes, because as Ebay states, the seller is still fully responsible...unless, and this is the key part, the buyer states in writing, "I'm using a freight forward service".
As long as the seller is shipping to the US what does it matter where it goes after that? Does the seller really need to be concerned where their item goes after it's been delivered?
06-06-2023 12:08 AM
I'm actually not sure how that ever settled out, though - where the chain of responsibility was determined to actually end at the FF or not. There was an incredibly tortured line of reasoning given by one of the upper level eBay reps years back justifying NOT having the responsibility of the seller ending at the FF because of the 0.001% chance that someone actually working at the FF may be having the package delivered to them at their work (the FF), thus being the actual buyer, and so there is no lessening of responsibility for the seller unless there was documented proof that this item was, indeed, being forwarded on out of the country. Given that I already shipped internationally on my own I didn't care one way or another, but I did think it was a really weak policy to be hanging up the vast majority of orders on the off chance that one person might have something delivered to their work address at some miscellaneous freight forwarder.
But it's also something I just can't get twisted about, I guess - there's so much crank policy.
06-06-2023 12:12 AM
" I regret that may not be happy with the purchase. Since I cannot in good conscience answer all your questions to your satisfaction, I am willing to cancel the entire transaction and refund you in full."
Then cancel At Buyer's Request.
Which might be pushing Buyer Request, except for the additional packaging being demanded. That could have been your out.
Hindsight .....
06-06-2023 02:45 AM - edited 06-06-2023 02:45 AM
I sold a widget to a guy in Nashville TN.
I shipped it to him in Nashville TN.
Then I found out he had the nerve to ship it to his nephew in Timbuktu.
I didn't want that widget going out of the US!
If I had know that was going to happen, I would have cancelled the sale.
Again, if it's shipped and delivered here in the US, why do we care where it goes after that?
06-06-2023 03:48 AM
Yes, it absolutely does. Especially when a fraudulent international buyer files a SNAD the moment it's shown as delivered at the 3rd party shipping service on the other side of the Earth.
06-06-2023 04:06 AM
Because they can file a SNAD as soon as it's delivered to the 3rd party shipper, even though it will be weeks before they receive it themselves. I know you're going to ask "Why would anyone do that?" and I would answer your question with the following questions; "Why would a buyer wait until after making a Buy-It-Now purchase to spam a seller with a thousand questions that were already answered in the listing description they failed to read?" "Why would a buyer attempt to change the terms of a transaction after the point of sale?" "Why would a small eBay store attract the attention of half a dozen Australian buyers in the span of 20 hours, 5 of whom have 5 year-old accounts with very low feedback, and each of whom use 3rd party shippers to circumvent one's no international shipping policy?" "Why would a buyer whose profile clearly shows they're in Australia claim in their correspondence they're actually in the United Kingdom?" "Why would a buyer claim a SNAD several weeks before they could possibly even inspect the contents of a package only delivered to their 3rd party shipping address hours earlier?"
According to the dozen eBay CSRs I spoke with yesterday, the answer to every single one of these questions is "It is not our policy to speculate." So be it. By the same token, it's not my policy to generate revenue for a corporation that won't stand up for their sellers when they're very clearly being defrauded, and who demonstrably go out of their way to assist said fraudsters in holding sellers' payouts hostage unless they issue refunds on fraudulent SNADs prior to receiving returns. This guy has me bent over as far as I can bend, and eBay is applying the lubricant.
06-06-2023 05:52 AM
I sympathize with your dilemna...but i feel the need to address one of your 'reasonings'
"...and each of whom use 3rd party shippers to circumvent one's no international shipping policy?"..."
I inquired once or twice over the years with my international buyers as to why they use forwarders (I generally offer international shipping). The common thread was the expense....simply put, using the freight forwarding company is economically superior to many postal options. They include insurance, door-to-door shipping with no customs to deal with, scheduling delivery...a bunch of reasons. Your impression of "to circumvent" is simply not true in most cases...it is an assumption, and that is not a good way to determine a business decision......
06-06-2023 05:58 AM
Agree to disagree.
I don't want to sell to international customers, because every single international sale I've ever made on this platform has been a problematic hassle. I ship domestically in an attempt to avoid the very problem I'm having right now. So you'll excuse me if I'm not prepared to champion the cause of 3rd party shippers who make structured fraud possible and circumvent sellers' preferences.
06-06-2023 10:12 AM
Then you demand the return of the widget before refunding.
Which sellers, even sellers with No Returns, policies are allowed to do.
Since the customer cannot do that, you win the case.
You may have to provide a Return Shipping Label -- from the receiving address in the USA only.
Most of the Money Back Guarantee does not apply to purchases that have been forwarded by a third party.