09-14-2022 07:21 AM
I'm borrowing this from another thread, since it will likely be buried there. As many of you know, ebay has been adding more and more promoted listings to the View Item page (often referred to as "the listing page"). A good discussion, with dramatic toothpaste illustration, can be found here: https://www.valueaddedresource.net/ebay-thinks-100-ads-on-listing-improvement/
I'm not interested in using this thread to complain about this , or to condemn ebay for doing it....we have plenty of those discussions already. PLS isn't going away, and the listing page will continue to look like this (or worse). Instead, I'd like to see if people have any practical ideas about ways we can reduce (we can't eliminate) the negative impact on our sales. Here's what I wrote on the other thread, and I'm hoping other sellers can add to this list:
A seller can use PLs , which will increase the chance that he might make a sale when he shows up on a competitors listing, but that doesn't do much to mitigate the impact this has on the seller's own listing.
Running promotions (such as discount sales) might help, as the promotion might persuade the buyer to stay more focused on what the seller has to offer, rather than looking at all the bright shiny things from other sellers.
Not sure about this one , but a seller might design a description template and include his photos in the template, which will take up considerably more space on the page, and might help to keep the buyer focused on the listed item. (I say not sure for a couple reasons, including the fact that ebay could probably take away this option if too many sellers use it and ebay concludes it is hurting PLS performance).
Make sure Make An Offer is enabled. While ebay has claimed they do not put identical items on the page, we know this isn't true, especially so for items that don't have a UPC or other code number. I just looked at one of my items, and see several of the same thing from other sellers, at lower prices. At least if I have Offer enabled, the buyer MIGHT decide to give me a chance to make the sale by discounting my price.
Your suggestions?
09-16-2022 11:03 AM
@zamo-zuan I tried doing categories to tailor a campaign, but could not get the app to work. I'll fiddle with it some more as I also prefer to set different rates for different categories (or exclude categories altogether). I figured there would be a drop between old campaign and when the new campaign gets traction.
09-16-2022 01:16 PM
@chapeau-noir wrote:@zamo-zuan I tried doing categories to tailor a campaign, but could not get the app to work. I'll fiddle with it some more as I also prefer to set different rates for different categories (or exclude categories altogether). I figured there would be a drop between old campaign and when the new campaign gets traction.
Yup treating them differently per category is useful. As each typically have different levels of investment.
What was the issue with getting the app to work?
Yeah, "usually" there's a drop if you had a campaign going for more than a month. But not in all cases. It seems as if big changes cause the entire campaign to "re-index" and start over.
09-16-2022 01:38 PM
@chapeau-noir wrote:@simply-the-best-for-you I use automated PLs on everything but tech, DVDs and bike parts at an average promotional rate of 3%.
Incidentally, my promo click-through has really dropped, though organic impressions have stayed steady and my sales are up quite a bit. This may be an anomaly, though, because I was listing very little in August but have been listing steadily in September so attendant uptick in sales by 230%. So views are down but sales are up. ?
Thank you for chiming in! And congrats on the great sales uptick! Mine have gone the other way, though my listing has fallen off.
It sounds like we have Automated PL's in common, but that your rate is on the low side, esp compared to mine. So maybe it's the Automated campaign or maybe it's something totally different & we're barking up the wrong tree.
09-16-2022 01:51 PM - edited 09-16-2022 01:52 PM
@simply-the-best-for-you wrote:
@chapeau-noir wrote:@simply-the-best-for-you I use automated PLs on everything but tech, DVDs and bike parts at an average promotional rate of 3%.
Incidentally, my promo click-through has really dropped, though organic impressions have stayed steady and my sales are up quite a bit. This may be an anomaly, though, because I was listing very little in August but have been listing steadily in September so attendant uptick in sales by 230%. So views are down but sales are up. ?
Thank you for chiming in! And congrats on the great sales uptick! Mine have gone the other way, though my listing has fallen off.
It sounds like we have Automated PL's in common, but that your rate is on the low side, esp compared to mine. So maybe it's the Automated campaign or maybe it's something totally different & we're barking up the wrong tree.
If the impressions have stayed the same, it's "most likely" (in quotes because you never know with eBay) not the rate being automatic, as higher rates would typically mean more exposure.
Impressions staying the same, CTR dropping, and sales going up typically characteristic of search targeting changes that resulted in the listings to be better targeted and pushing them to the top of search results.
In theory, other possibilities are that the automated rates have a higher tendency to push listings to the top, but this is less likely if the impressions hadn't changed alongside it.
Also with the changes eBay did recently, having a ton more impressions and less CTR is to be expected, since our promoted listings are showing up all over the place now, lol.
Increasing listings does help as well, though, so it's hard to determine exactly how that factored in. But it *does* make a difference.
-----
EBay used to have an old statistics page that had some errors in their variable displays. It would often say "Active Listings up 50%" when your active listings may not have actually been up at all. This was actually related to the search ranking going up. It basically exposed part of their formula that showed that ranking is indeed affected by the number of listings you're adding or removing.
In short, the more listings you have, and the more you add recently, the more traffic the system brings to you to compensate for those listings - but the traffic may not necessarily be going to those specific new listings - rather your stores traffic increases.
The lesson here is consistently adding new listings over time is very healthy for your store!
You may see a trend in a lot of the suggestions I give - creating listings, updating prices, updating promotions. These things are all measured by eBay and do help your store performance - we used to have evidence of this but sadly eBay has removed those pages/reports and "upgraded" them - but the "upgrades" lost a lot of the important data. I can personally guarantee it does make a difference though, it's been tested and is key to us staying competitive! 🙂
09-16-2022 02:06 PM
@zamo-zuan wrote:
@
Using automated for our items with a limit under 10% would basically ensure all of the listings are going to be at maximum at all times.
If we're going to set our own rates anyway, I rather apply a strategy as I had described in my post, focusing the efforts and investment on listings that need it most.
I'd also worked on trying to assist many users with large drops over the years, and I'd noticed a very large percentage of them used automated rates, afterwards recommending some strategies for manual rates things had improved. So it seems the automated systems "glitch" every once in awhile as well.
The bolded is not necess. true in CSA, where the SAR's can be quite high for in season items, esp on the cusp of a new season, like it is now. But of course, do whatever you feel is best, my suggestions were only geared towards figuring out what those of us with the 'preferred' layout have in common. Since @chapeau-noir chimed in, it's clearly not high rates, since she said she generally uses 3%. Frankly, it may not even have anything to do with our PL campaigns.
09-16-2022 02:17 PM
@zamo-zuan based on your last post (#64 oldest to newest), I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. I'm only talking about what Chap & I have in common that gives us the 'preferred layout'. That's all I was referring to.
Chap's chart seems normal to me, without any major dips or peaks, just normal fluctuation. There are always going to be peaks & valleys & unless they are dramatic, they are just normal ups & downs of traffic, not necessarily a sign of something wrong with the campaign, a stale campaign or a glitch. Though I do end/restart my campaigns periodically, I don't do it based on my charts, which are almost always the same, with normal peaks & valleys.
Personally, for me, I see no point in doing things by category/subcat b/c the whole reason I do Automated is to make it '1 click simple'. Obviously YMMV, but I don't want to create more work for myself in regards to PL's.
09-16-2022 02:21 PM
I like to avoid some categories when I do PLs due to not really needing a promotion on them - for instance DVDs - I never promote DVDs because they sell briskly on their own - I just sold the DVD sets I recently listed in a matter of several days. Once in a while it takes longer. Same with tech - my tech almost all sells and those that don't I'll finally promote to see what happens.
The stuff I do put on promotion - yeah, I pretty much slap a percentage on there and let it go.
09-16-2022 02:37 PM - edited 09-16-2022 02:42 PM
@simply-the-best-for-you wrote:@zamo-zuan based on your last post (#64 oldest to newest), I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. I'm only talking about what Chap & I have in common that gives us the 'preferred layout'. That's all I was referring to.
Chap's chart seems normal to me, without any major dips or peaks, just normal fluctuation. There are always going to be peaks & valleys & unless they are dramatic, they are just normal ups & downs of traffic, not necessarily a sign of something wrong with the campaign, a stale campaign or a glitch. Though I do end/restart my campaigns periodically, I don't do it based on my charts, which are almost always the same, with normal peaks & valleys.
Personally, for me, I see no point in doing things by category/subcat b/c the whole reason I do Automated is to make it '1 click simple'. Obviously YMMV, but I don't want to create more work for myself in regards to PL's.
In #64, in the first half I was explaining what the characteristics of her graph typically indicate, and that it's likely not to do with the automated promos. Just seems like a targeting change, alongside the fact that we're getting a ton more impressions from the recent change, without the views to compensate.
Second half I was discussing how, as chap mentioned, more listings does indeed help sales, and how (as per the intent of this thread) sellers could use that to deal with the changes. Those are the exact strategies we use in order to achieve our performance.
I absolutely understand not wanting to make more work for yourself with PL's! But sadly, if we want to optimize our performance, still have as much growth as possible, and get decent profit margins, it has to be manual and takes a lot of work. Automated is marketed as something that will help you invest less, but in reality the convenience comes with a price as testing has shown it will go higher than necessary as much as possible. And for categories with tight margins such as ours, it's not really an option. Just 1 or 2% lower is a make or break difference when profit margins are often only 5% and eBay requires 3-4% promo fees to get visibility...
Setting one fee and letting the promo go worked for us until 2020. That's when eBay started "testing" on our store and 1% did nothing, 2% was the minimum, but we needed 3-4% to get visibility. What people are encountering this year? That's actually what began being "tested" on us in 2020. So we unfortunately have had a lot of experience working in this system. And we've learned that to make it work, this is the best way to do it without overspending.
09-16-2022 02:55 PM
@zamo-zuan Not disputing your findings, just that they're not the case for everyone. Which we've discussed before, no need to re-hash. I don't find that Automated goes higher than necessary, as much as possible, nor do I have thin margins. I frequently find the sale at a lower rate than I expected. Likely both of those are simply different b/c of the categories we sell in. It's just not OSFA.
@chapeau-noir That's totally cool. I was just saying that for *me* I don't want the hassle of doing different things in different cats, but that's also b/c I sell 99% in 1 category. I know you're more diversified than I am.
Truly my only attempt here was not to get into the weeds on PL's, yet again. I was just trying to figure out why what Ducks mentioned was the case, that several of us have a 'preferred layout' & to see what we may have in common. That's all. So, I'm going to bow out unless something on that topic becomes more obvious. I need to take advantage of the nice weather & get some pics done 😀
09-16-2022 03:31 PM - edited 09-16-2022 03:32 PM
yeah, idk why, seems to be much more so since the last seller update that campaigns go wacky, for whatever, sometimes its when campaign is running, but usually it's when you create one, something just doesn't take.
I did new campaigns, last night, got clicks on the one nothing on the other two but the other two are very small in quantity not much stuff etc.. raised election another % this morn...still nothing - at this point it's been 5 days since last sale, when they implemented the new listing tool my sales stopped. Getting views, no sales, had 2 people mail me asking "can I get this for (fill in absurd price here) + free shipping" my reply to both were, happy hunting. Getting sick of having to do tons of stuff just to make one sale - and so I'm not, put some listings up on another platform I use time to time this morn, will activate them tonight when I have time to do more there.
09-16-2022 03:37 PM
@simply-the-best-for-you wrote:
Truly my only attempt here was not to get into the weeds on PL's, yet again. I was just trying to figure out why what Ducks mentioned was the case, that several of us have a 'preferred layout' & to see what we may have in common. That's all. So, I'm going to bow out unless something on that topic becomes more obvious. I need to take advantage of the nice weather & get some pics done 😀
yeah, idk, seems that question is going to linger awhile cause you know full well ebay won't address it and no one I have seen has any answer either... we got several ideas, election rate, category, or maybe they just screwed up and released two different listing frames by accident (likely not).
09-16-2022 04:09 PM
@nuclearomen wrote:
@simply-the-best-for-you wrote:
Truly my only attempt here was not to get into the weeds on PL's, yet again. I was just trying to figure out why what Ducks mentioned was the case, that several of us have a 'preferred layout' & to see what we may have in common. That's all. So, I'm going to bow out unless something on that topic becomes more obvious. I need to take advantage of the nice weather & get some pics done 😀
yeah, idk, seems that question is going to linger awhile cause you know full well ebay won't address it and no one I have seen has any answer either... we got several ideas, election rate, category, or maybe they just screwed up and released two different listing frames by accident (likely not).
EBay has released two different versions of the same thing multiple times.
Last year when they god rid of Global Shipping, whether you had selected the Handling Time, or the D2D method, those settings persisted even after they removed Global Shipping from the settings page! So sellers were stuck with whichever option they had last. But they were still performing differently! I had went through shipping pages with fellow sellers, and the ones that had the D2D option functioned the same way we did, but those who were on the Handling Time option functioned differently. And all of the people who were on the Handling Time option were stuck with longer shipping times!
But the D2D method had glitches, where handling time was being IGNORED and if you had 10 days handling time, eBay would still be saying it arrives in 3 business days!
I don't know that this was ever fixed. After months of dealing with issues, we were forced to use rate tables to override the shipping options.
You could also sometimes look at listing data through the eBay API and find data that is older/missing from listings. You know how many times they lost the whole returns section in the data? Lol. I don't mean "No returns". Literally the returns part would be missing from the listing data.
And I've shown the Vehicle Fitment error many times: https://www.ebay.com/itm/281095856201
Try selecting the first vehicle in the compatibility chart. You'll see it for yourself. For trim, there's two different pieces of data for the trim. The one in their "dropdown" to select does NOT match the one they put in their compatibility chart! Literally the type of error you describe lol - two different pieces of data for the same system. (This has been happening since 2019, and still isn't fixed, btw)
09-20-2022 09:38 PM
There's a lot of really good comments on this post. Many veteran eBay sellers are much smarter than eBay gives them credit. In addition to everything I've read here, what about the lack of TV and social media advertisements from eBay? Literally all of eBay's competition is advertising on social media platforms, but NOT eBay. If I do see an ad for eBay it's for sneakers, trading cards, or eBay Motors. Their 3 main focus points over the past year. Nothing for the rest of us... WTH is eBay doing will all of their profits from the 2 pandemic years when they did so well? Why do they think they can not advertise for the better of the entire eBay platform?
10-28-2022 09:26 AM
Sorry to ask this question? What is PLs ? Have no idea.
10-28-2022 10:04 AM
PROMOTED LISTINGS
There are 3 types:
standard, advanced, and express
Promoted Listings Standard being the most popular where you pay extra % to boost your listings.