How to Deal With the Negative Impact of the Changes to the View Item (Listing) Page

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

I'm borrowing this from another thread, since it will likely be buried there. As many of you know, ebay has been adding more and more promoted listings to the View Item page (often referred to as "the listing page"). A good discussion, with dramatic toothpaste illustration, can be found here: https://www.valueaddedresource.net/ebay-thinks-100-ads-on-listing-improvement/

I'm not interested in using this thread to complain about this , or to condemn ebay for doing it....we have plenty of those discussions already. PLS isn't going away, and the listing page will continue to look like this (or worse). Instead, I'd like to see if people have any practical ideas about ways we can reduce (we can't eliminate) the negative impact on our sales. Here's what I wrote on the other thread, and I'm hoping other sellers can add to this list:

A seller can use PLs , which will increase the chance that he might make a sale when he shows up on a competitors listing, but that doesn't do much to mitigate the impact this has on the seller's own listing.

Running promotions (such as discount sales) might help, as the promotion might persuade the buyer to stay more focused on what the seller has to offer, rather than looking at all the bright shiny things from other sellers.

Not sure about this one , but a seller might design a description template and include his photos in the template, which will take up considerably more space on the page, and might help to keep the buyer focused on the listed item. (I say not sure for a couple reasons, including the fact that ebay could probably take away this option if too many sellers use it and ebay concludes it is hurting PLS performance).  

Make sure Make An Offer is enabled. While ebay has claimed they do not put identical items on the page, we know this isn't true, especially so for items that don't have a UPC or other code number. I just looked at one of my items, and see several of the same thing from other sellers, at lower prices. At least if I have Offer enabled, the buyer MIGHT decide to give me a chance to make the sale by discounting my price.

Your suggestions? 

[ducks2k]

@nuclearomen- not to be contentious here, but I think this thread is intended for those who wish to try to adapt to eBay as it currently is, not to how it might be or should be - I certainly have strong opinions about that...

PL is a reality.  The underlying principles of how it is implemented are unstated.  If the other thread showed anything, it was that different sellers see different things and perceive different outcomes.  My feeling would be that individual sellers can try to adopt strategies that maximize their return within the system.  Of course, eBay can negate them on a whim, but that is the reality we have dealt with for decades.

But, before we can alter any outcomes, we need to understand what aspects of our listings are actually under our control (or at least influence).

For example - has anyone figured out how (or why) the PL ads look the way they do?  To me, they appear to be created from the primary image from the item listing.  It appears like the full item title is shown, and it may extend over 1-3 lines.  This is followed by the item price in bold and usually 2 lines which vary semi-randomly relating to shipping cost, and seller rating.  "Top Rated Plus" sellers seem to get an extra line.

The random lines are certainly out of our control, and they usually are NOT what I would have chosen to say about myself to encourage a buyer.

Because these ads (deliberately?) do not include a seller id, I have started adopting what one of my competitors has been doing and starting the item title with my tag "D2k " - short for ducks2k.  I don't usually need the full 80 characters to fit all the search terms I think I need to make the item findable, to the extra 4 characters don't "cost" much.

My testing shows that if a buyer wanted to see just my listings, searches like 'D2k Trout' or 'D2k duck 2012' (no ") do bring up precisely what I would hope, and nothing more.  I do get a lot of repeat buyers, so I probably should suggest that search strategy to them.

[nuclearomen]

@ducks2k yeah, but like I already pointed out, there is nothing you can do - really - period. EVERYTHING you will suggest has already been done. And I wasn't stating in either of the two posts what ebay should do etc... no go back and read them - we have adapted, everyone has done what they need to do, not sure what part of everything that is wrong is out of your control you don't understand? 

Why do PL's look the way they do? Because they do. Do you believe you have some way of changing how listings appear on ebay? No you do not. The image you use won't make one bit of difference. Seems to me your all asking questions that are irrelevant, irrelevant because you can't do squat about it. Telling me the thread is focused on what you can do not "might or should" is EXACTLY what your doing - talking about stuff that you cannot change. And again - before start rambling about how you can change your listings (you can't) or how PL ads appear on your listing (what does it matter, you can't change it) or how many characters are displayed on PL's (wouldn't make one iota difference either way) - the issue IS NOT PL ADS ON LISTINGS - simple as that - the PLs are not the problem. 

The ONLY control you have on your listings is the listing parts of YOUR ITEM and that is all. That includes photos, specifics, description, price, shipping, and PL election. And like I have said already, everyone has already tried things like putting extra in the descriptions - most people already take good photos, have good titles, good descriptions, fill in specifics etc... all basic stuff. 

Whatever the issue(s) are, it's highly doubtful that PL ads on the listings is the prime and sole cause - is it a problem? Of course it is and the bigger issue isn't that PLs are on the listing - it's ebay removed YOUR PLs from that first top row and that CONTRIBUTES to lesser sales/views/traffic but DOES NOT explain why those who visit the listing still do not purchase the item. It cannot be because others PL ads that have NOTHING in relation to the item they are viewing - that's just absurd excuse to even suggest. If was price, then why is it that run sales (some for serious discounts) and they still don't sell? So it isn't price either. 

I do agree with your statement": "But, before we can alter any outcomes, we need to understand what aspects of our listings are actually under our control (or at least influence)." - unfortunately we already know and control those parts. What we need is actual to rewrite this as : "But, before we can alter any outcomes, we need to understand what aspects of this site is causing the lack of sales" - not specifically listings and it's not PL ads on them either. 

[gurlcat]

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@ducks2k wrote:

@nuclearomen- not to be contentious here, but I think this thread is intended for those who wish to try to adapt to eBay as it currently is, not to how it might be or should be - I certainly have strong opinions about that...

PL is a reality. 

Not to be contentious either 😇 but I'm not sure if you read nuclearomen's last reply (message #15) carefully enough, particularly the second paragraph, which is admittedly a text wall and might have prompted you to skim.  His/her point seems to be that, yes, PL is a reality, and not only that it has been a reality for a while so it doesn't explain the downshift in some sellers' sales.  

Here's the most relevant portion of that paragraph: "Anyone who thinks this is the problem is joking themselves. It's simple, ebay is not allowing sales on your listings - period. Weather it's by means of no visibility, not allowing a check out, not enough PL election for ebay... whatever the reason - there is something much more wrong with the site then just the fact of PL ads on the listing because it was NEVER an issue before and reason for such lack of sales."

-I have no idea where the idea of "not allowing check out" comes from, but I do agree with him/her that some of us have suffered undeniable account-wide visibility throttling at various times, for unknown reasons.  That's a whole other thread topic of course, in fact one that has generated lots of threads this year in particular.  I have posted concrete evidence that I started getting throttled overnight, May 12, but I don't want to hijack this thread and make it about me (PM me if you want details).  Since then, I believe I have figured out how to course-correct when it happens, but it's a 'fuzzy' theory that, even if correct, may only apply to me or sellers "like" me (in whatever ways), so I am very hesitant to make a big public announcement about it, knowing it would more likely result in a bunch of shade, and few or no thank-you's.  

For example - has anyone figured out how (or why) the PL ads look the way they do?  

No, but I think it's a topic ripe for discussion.  Have you ever started a standalone thread about it?  

Because these ads (deliberately?) do not include a seller id,

THAT is a biggie that I would like to know, what Ebay's reasoning for it might be.  So many times I have clicked on a good-looking thumbnail image in one of these PL sections, only to reach that item's listing pages and discover that DOH! it's a seller I do not wish to buy from, for this or that reason.  If it happens once, shame on me for not recognizing their photography style, but if their style actually varies a lot and so it happens repeatedly in the same search session, shame on Ebay for not showing seller's id's in these promo's, because it can frustrate me enough to stop clicking on ANY of those.  Until next time anyway.  😆

I have started adopting what one of my competitors has been doing and starting the item title with my tag "D2k " - short for ducks2k.  I don't usually need the full 80 characters to fit all the search terms I think I need to make the item findable, to the extra 4 characters don't "cost" much.

My testing shows that if a buyer wanted to see just my listings, 

I have to ask, are you not aware that a buyer can click 'See seller's other items' when they're on any of your listings?  Admittedly, I've always thought it should be more prominently displayed, in bigger letters, maybe flashing with big red arrows jabbing at it 😆.   And it's even harder to find on the app than the website.  This is one of many reasons I almost never do searches on my phone, like maybe if I'm stuck for a long time in a waiting room or whatever.   But still, it is there, and any buyer aware of that can find it if they try.  Seems a lot more likely than buyers thinking of trying your handle abbreviation thing.  Not saying it can't work, sounds like it does according to your tests, but I can't picture many buyers conjuring the idea on their own, certainly not ones who aren't already aware of the 'See seller's other items' option. 

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[ducks2k]

@gurlcat @nuclearomen  - not sure if you are accidentally or deliberately misreading what I am (trying to) say.  Granted PL is reality, and that individually or collectively, sellers have very little chance to change PL.

Granted! -- now, the question is really -- what can I, as a single seller, do to make my situation as less-bad as I can? 

Nuclear says that "we already know and control those parts" - maybe, he does, but I doubt that most sellers do.  I've been selling for 20 years and my research/testing of the last week or two has revealed (to me) new aspects of listing that I was not aware of.  Further searches of eBay "help" and non-eBay blogs tends to document things that are long irrelevant.

Example:  I go to "manage my store" and one of the very first steps it wants me to take is to create a 300x300 store logo.  This is last week, not years ago.  I went to the trouble of creating one because the text associated with that step says that stores with logos sell more than ones without. (note - after the logo is created and uploaded, that text disappears, and I can't cite it here).

OK - I have this nice recommended logo - where will my buyers see it to be overwhelmed with my artistic ability?   Answer: nowhere.  Doing all sorts of eBay and non-eBay searches just bring up links on how to create one.  One blog-type result indicates that the "store logo" concept died years ago, but it is still on every store's recommended first steps.

These are the types of things that, IMHO, are the target of this particular thread.  What can we, as individual sellers, do for our own listings and storefronts, and what are the possible or likely results?  This is not a waste of time and effort.

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

OK, I'm just going to turn this thread over to @nuclearomen  ....LOL

[ducks2k]

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques- maybe another thread - here is where moderated discussions might be useful.  There are things we sellers can do, we just have to figure them out...

[simply-the-best-for-you]

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@ducks2k wrote:

Borrowed from that other thread a mystery which is relevant to the "how do deal with this" topic.  I almost hate to make it public since eBay may track it down and negate it.

The mystery is that the items from the seller @simply-the-best-for-you   "simply-the-best-for-you" DO NOT have the 2 rows of sponsored recommendations stuffed into the middle of the item listing.  https://www.ebay.com/sch/simply-the-best-for-you/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg  (not sure if links are legal in a conversation).

I have not found any his listings that DO have those two advertising bands, or anyone else's that DON'T.  I have looked a quite a few possible distinguishing features - promotions, seller rating, eBay category, price.  His DO have the promotion bands at the bottom like everyone else, just not the most obnoxious ones in the middle of the item page.

If I could duplicate his structure, I would be more accepting of PL.

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@ducks2k   Please note though that I am not a "him".  My pronouns are she/her.   

As the owner of the listing posted & this anomaly that was brought up in the other thread.  I have no idea why mine look different than others, short of the possibilities that I threw out in the other thread.  It's not the Clothing category or subcategory as someone else suggested b/c I see other clothing listings that have the band of other people's listings.  

Perhaps it has to do with the fact that my campaign is Automated (& has been for quite awhile) or that I promote at high rates or that a large percentage of my sales are from PL's, I just don't know.  

I will say that it is NOT just mine.  I just looked at about 10 clothing sellers on my Saved Sellers list (many of whom I 'know' from various boards) & several of us have them look the same as mine including @chapeau-noir  who I'm only calling out b/c she participated in this discussion.   I found at least 1 other one, who I won't name, but will say that I know they use PL's extensively & I know they are a very successful seller who has a high standing with eBay, just like Chapeau, myself & the other seller.   

If I had to place a bet, I would bet it that it either has to do with the percentage we spend on PL's or our ratio of sales from PL's.  That said, IDK if they always look this way or if it's something that rotates.  TBH, when I shop or compare, I instinctively just scroll through all the reccomendations, so I don't pay that much attn to them on my listings or anyone else's. 

Also, just to add, the fact that they look this way does not mean my sales are great, I've had a rough couple of weeks.  

[simply-the-best-for-you]

Ran out of edit time, but one other thing to note...the 3 of us who I ID'd that have this layout have another thing in common, we are all LONG time sellers in our category.  VERY long time sellers.

That's not it, in & of itself, as several of the other sellers I checked are as 'senior' as the 3 of us are, but it may have something to do with it.  

[nuclearomen]

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@ducks2k wrote:

@gurlcat @nuclearomen  - not sure if you are accidentally or deliberately misreading what I am (trying to) say.  Granted PL is reality, and that individually or collectively, sellers have very little chance to change PL.

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@ducks2k yeah I misread posts all the time... no, I didn't misread your post(s) 

again - and for the last time: PLs ARE NOT THE ISSUE! seriously - x amount of threads on PLs - pick one. 

Ok, well, unlike you, I have a logo, it's been on my store 4 yrs if having a logo on your store means sales where did mine go? Did that increase your sales? Of course not. 

I understand what you saying - doing x, x and x because ebay suggests you do these things because it "increases sales" OK, but they don't - buyers could care nothing if you have a logo or not. Sure makes your store look nice, useful on biz cards, looks great many scenarios, but it means nothing on ebay. The whole store on ebay is a complete flop - many buyers never even visit them, when they do they can't find anything they are looking for - just as the rest of ebay the stores are poorly designed. The only reason sellers use them is for their xxx amount of listings a month and whatever benefit comes with store tier. More often then not buyers tell me they just visit the "View All Items" page of a sellers account and only look at those that state "new listing" (for followers/repeat buyers) - problem there is, ebay can't even get their system to show everything, a old glitch that keep returning is ebay not showing the right amount of listings a seller has (mine currently says 237-239 - yet I have 240 active listings - this has been happening for a week now - no matter how many times I refresh listings it still does it. 

I understand the thread, if you read what I've been saying is and I'll just state it again now, everyone has done everything your going to suggest. These things are not the issues. Many of them have nothing to do with making a sale like a logo - again, looks nice - but it's not needed, not going to make buyers click BIN. Ebay also wants you to make a video for your store...great - again, looks nice (hopefully) maybe gets a few views, it isn't going to sell your items in most cases, maybe for specific categories, hand made items, etc... I could see how it would maybe spark a bit interest. Like example - you make hand made custom leather bags - of, nice, maybe I'll watch video to see how you operate etc... but - i sell merchandise - i don't make it, i stock it, nothing to see here. Make a video showing my shelves? Maybe show I organize them alphabetically so I can find them when need to? yeah, pretty boring. Point being, ebay suggests a lot of things, sure some of things DO help, but many is just ebay telling people to do stuff. 

I agree with all that listings need to be in order, nice photos, good title, good description, specifics filled out and all info correct etc... but most people already do this, at least I do. 

Some say "get social media and use that to promote" OK, you can, if you like being under the social media wokism they practice - i for one will not, removed myself from S.M. few years ago. But not about me, if you think it will help sales, if can gain enough followers/friends who take interest in your wears then by means go ahead. 

[ducks2k]

@simply-the-best-for-you-- sorry "she/her" after 74 years, I really have a hard time adapting...  "automated" is not something I thought about or tested.  High PL rate would be disgustingly possible.  I just haven't looked at enough random items in random categories - you are right about chapeau-noir  -- wonder what the logic is....

I had thought it might be "top rated seller", but that didn't pan out. 

Whether it affects sales is a separate question - need to at least figure out what the ground-rules are.

[simply-the-best-for-you]

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@ducks2k wrote:

@simply-the-best-for-you-- sorry "she/her" after 74 years, I really have a hard time adapting...  "automated" is not something I thought about or tested.  High PL rate would be disgustingly possible.  I just haven't looked at enough random items in random categories - you are right about chapeau-noir  -- wonder what the logic is....

I had thought it might be "top rated seller", but that didn't pan out. 

Whether it affects sales is a separate question - need to at least figure out what the ground-rules are.

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No worries, just try to remember "she".   I don't think you're going to figure out the 'ground rules' b/c we don't even know if they are static.  For all we know, this could be rotating & it's us 3 this week.  That said, I'm SURE it's not just the 3 of us, I just don't have time to dig into this deeply.  I can tell you that the 3 I know of are all VERY long time sellers with stellar reputations.  

[ducks2k]

@nuclearomen- minor point - where does your "store logo" appear?  Is it the spot after the description area that is a link to your store? just to the left of "Nuclear Collectibles"?  I built and uploaded my 300x300 logo to the "manage my store" area a day or two ago and nothing shows up there on my item listings - just a little generic storefront sketch like almost everyone else.  I looked at some new listings from this morning, but nothing new there.   I have not yet built a "billboard" image, but I assumed that this was what would appear in that spot.  Maybe I need to wait a few more days, but this is just an example of weak eBay documentation.

I don't slavishly follow every recommendation, but it would be good to know what the recommendations actually did.  Item Specifics are another mysterious impact - they are not totally ignored, but how they affect searches is a mystery.

[nuclearomen]

@ducks2k I looked at your store, i need to reply back on this, need several min to prepair screen shots... 
In mean time you can click "view listings" under my name here and then click the store icon for my store to view it, you can see my logo/store then. 

Logo you have is the icon that people will see on your listings, well, use to, it would appear in your listing frame, which ebay took away recently. But they also changed setting where that can be so may not appear from the store settings anymore, mine is the same image that appears here, on my store, and my account profile. 

[earthdreamer]

Regarding store logos, the only logo that seems to be visible in listings is the profile logo.

You still have the generic eBay blue polygon. If you update the profile pic, this will show in your listings to the left of your store header further down. 

[nuclearomen]

@ducks2k 
what you have is logo: 

what I have is the logo + store banner: