How do you spot scammers?

[sin-n-dex]

Not wanting to give too much case specific info, I thought it would be interesting to start a thread about some obvious things that lots of scammers seem to say/do.

The most obvious (but no longer applicable) was when they went to Paypal to get a refund because eBay makes you wait until the last delivery day to file an INR, this was for INRs, usually international orders without tracking when I shipped to more places and shipped from Canada). The refund request usually happened 4-7 days after I shipped which told me they got the item, knew there was no tracking, and went to Paypal because eBay wouldn't let them file an INR. (They often escalated these requests immediately to a claim, I don't remember much about it, but they could put in a refund request and escalate it). That would be the most obvious way I know I'd been scammed on something I couldn't prove delivery on (whereas those who waited a few weeks before filing, never knew if they got it or not, or if they were a scammer or not).

I also notice that scammers say a lot of the same things in response to my messages. My favourite is being told the mail only takes 2 days (from where I shipped it from). My mother is a bit of scammer and it's something she used to tell people all the time, so that's why I think I noticed (and it's always TWO days for some reason).

Sometimes it's a combination of what the buyer is buying, and things in their public profile that give me an idea they are going to be a problem buyer (but I never know this until a problem arrives, fortunately I'm not always right about this).

Or it's messages they send me ahead of time which suggest I'm being set up for a SNAD. I give zero assurances of anything when I think I'm being set up, and in most cases they move on to someone who will point out the money back guarantee that they'll get what they're promised. I can almost guarantee  you if I tell them something is "100% whatever", they will come back when they receive it and say "you told me it was A, and I find out it's B, and you need to give me my money back!" (Isn't it nice when we can see these buyers coming BEFORE they purchase?

I have pre-emptively blocked on leading questions, but I try not to do that and consider other factors to determine if they're a serious buyer who is making sure, or someone setting up for SNAD). Also it depends what the item is, I've said a million times in here when someone is wondering if they've been scammed that "the item matters, a LOT".

My shipper offers insurance (0.39 CAD for up to $99 CAD), which I put on Freight Forwarders since there's a higher chance of INR (and tracking not being updated, getting the shipper to pay the insurance if an INR is filed is easier than trying to deal with USPS, and if they pay out enough of these Freight Fwder claims for USPS not scanning delivered they can call the postmaster and complain a lot, I presume they have contacts with USPS to complain to). The Freight Forwarder INR scam is a common one, and probably the one that happens the most (to me) these days.

C.

[silverstatetreasureboxes]

I do know that scammers have Beady- 👀 eyes!

[12345jamesstamps]

How to check a scammer...their feedbacks and when they joined eBay and if feedbacks...are they buying related items you sell...coins or stamps.

And yes, I do google sometimes a buyer's address...LOL

So paying by Pay Pal...have to be clear on what that means...I have a Pay Pal credit card...and never used it on eBay but at Trader's Joe's a lot...Pay Pal Credit...where you pay in 4 payments...not really a big credit card of sorts....and Pay Pal...whatever that is(a service?)...I usually use my debit card for payments which I assume goes through Pay Pal service.

I never went to Pay Pal for a refund or don't even know how to do that.

Getting a few questions about an item which is rather described rather correct from a potential buyer...you probably get blocked by me. I don't need 'drama' or the money(usually). I am a one-kid operation.

I am rather a specialist of what I sell...stamps.

Or giving low ball offers on an item...blocked...I don't have 'best offers'.

My blocked list is in the hundreds...LOL...I hope it hasn't hit a thousand.

[inhawaii]

Anytime they look like this...

 

[ittybitnot]

@sin-n-dex 

If one is a seller, the first one that come to mind is the "text me" scammer.  They want more pictures (sent to their phone or email}, or they want to further discuss something before paying, or they can't pay through eBay, yada yada...  If the seller falls for this, then they usually want a "gift card" included in the parcel for their brother's (daughter's, grandmother's) birthday (graduation, wedding).  They will pay you extra of course, but in reality you get no money, just a fake notification you have been paid, with some sketchy link to use to enter the tracking number so "your payment will be released".  

The link takes you to a phony "sign in page" where your eBay creds are harvested as well. The buyers that say they can't pay will eventually get around to sending you a similar link (supposedly supplied by eBay CS) to help solve the buyer's payment problem. 

The second and very easy to avoid is the "change of address" scammer.  They show up when the listing sells.  It can be someone impersonating the real buyer who paid, OR the real buyer who wants you to ship someplace else.  If it is an impersonator with a different ID, they usually want it shipped to a freight forwarder.  If you comply, the crook gets your product for free, and the real buyer is going to file an INR claim since they got nothing. 

In the case of the buyer of record contacting you for an address change, it is not unheard of that they actually made a mistake.  It does not matter.  If you ship to another address at the buyer's request, and they file INR, the seller is toast.  eBay a few years ago would maintain seller protection for a change of address so long as it was documented in messages.  That is no longer true.  

Let me know if you want details on the "cheap trinket" return scam. 

[sin-n-dex]

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@12345jamesstamps wrote:

How to check a scammer...their feedbacks and when they joined eBay and if feedbacks...are they buying related items you sell...coins or stamps.

And yes, I do google sometimes a buyer's address...LOL

So paying by Pay Pal...have to be clear on what that means...I have a Pay Pal credit card...and never used it on eBay but at Trader's Joe's a lot...Pay Pal Credit...where you pay in 4 payments...not really a big credit card of sorts....and Pay Pal...whatever that is(a service?)...I usually use my debit card for payments which I assume goes through Pay Pal service.

I never went to Pay Pal for a refund or don't even know how to do that.

Getting a few questions about an item which is rather described rather correct from a potential buyer...you probably get blocked by me. I don't need 'drama' or the money(usually). I am a one-kid operation.

I am rather a specialist of what I sell...stamps.

Or giving low ball offers on an item...blocked...I don't have 'best offers'.

My blocked list is in the hundreds...LOL...I hope it hasn't hit a thousand.

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I'm going to comment on a few points.

First the Paypal refund, this was back (before MP) when people used to get their eBay money via Paypal and withdraw it into their bank account. What the scammer would do is go into their Paypal account, find the transaction and do a dispute (and then escalate it to a claim, I'm not really sure what the difference is, but all the scammers escalated their disputes into claims, or whatever the correct terms are, it's been a while... I've been on MP since 2021).

For your Paypal credit card, I presume  you can dispute in your Paypal account if there's a transaction history, but you're venturing into something I don't know. Canadians don't get Paypal credit cards (and Paypal came after me for an SSN because they thought I was a "USA person" because I had a "USA bank account in USA"). We resolved that misunderstanding and they're allowing me to continue on.

I don't block low ballers but I do ignore them if I feel my time is being wasted. I remember eBay told me once they thought I took a transaction off site because the buyer messaged me about an item and I ignored them, and later removed it (because it was attracting trouble). I told them I did answer them, ignoring them was my answer. I didn't get charged a FVF though.

While I sell stamps and coins and other similar collectibles, I don't consider myself an expert. My knowledge is what sells on eBay when I'm picking through buckets of junk at the store. I can see something they overlooked that's worth money and claim it to list. For grading and such, I won't go there, and I don't use the store's grading in my listing (there's rules on that, they aren't clear to me, so I just don't go there with grading). I describe banknote condition (words, not a numeric grade) but white out what the store puts on their holder because there's rules about not being allowed to have a "grade" on a "holder". I'll go extra lengths to make sure the listing is compliant.

I don't need drama either, but I have plenty of that going on around me (and can't seem to get away from it). Any drama related to eBay is shared with my Posse for the purpose of having an entertaining discussion (kind of like "would you believe this guy"). I have a few stories every week about interesting things that happened, some of them are good stories for my business.

C.

[sin-n-dex]

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@ittybitnot wrote:

@sin-n-dex 

If one is a seller, the first one that come to mind is the "text me" scammer.  They want more pictures (sent to their phone or email}, or they want to further discuss something before paying, or they can't pay through eBay, yada yada...  If the seller falls for this, then they usually want a "gift card" included in the parcel for their brother's (daughter's, grandmother's) birthday (graduation, wedding).  They will pay you extra of course, but in reality you get no money, just a fake notification you have been paid, with some sketchy link to use to enter the tracking number so "your payment will be released".  

The link takes you to a phony "sign in page" where your eBay creds are harvested as well. The buyers that say they can't pay will eventually get around to sending you a similar link (supposedly supplied by eBay CS) to help solve the buyer's payment problem. 

The second and very easy to avoid is the "change of address" scammer.  They show up when the listing sells.  It can be someone impersonating the real buyer who paid, OR the real buyer who wants you to ship someplace else.  If it is an impersonator with a different ID, they usually want it shipped to a freight forwarder.  If you comply, the crook gets your product for free, and the real buyer is going to file an INR claim since they got nothing. 

In the case of the buyer of record contacting you for an address change, it is not unheard of that they actually made a mistake.  It does not matter.  If you ship to another address at the buyer's request, and they file INR, the seller is toast.  eBay a few years ago would maintain seller protection for a change of address so long as it was documented in messages.  That is no longer true.  

Let me know if you want details on the "cheap trinket" return scam. 

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This is all true and these things all happen... but I don't think anything you mentioned in your post happens to me. I don't think I've ever gotten the "include a gift card" (that will get them ghosted, and they most likely haven't paid, so I file an unpaid claim too). I ignore "text me" scams, but I don't think I've ever gotten those.

I have read about the cheap trinket return and fortunately that hasn't happened to me, but I suppose it might at some time. Generally people try to get partial refunds rather than orchestrate a return scam. (With the partial refund, if I agree, I may or may not choose to block... depends if I think their claim is ridiculous or not, and the partial refund is generally cheaper as an option than having the thing returned).

Maybe I should have said how to spot scammers that aren't novices at scamming? I figure anyone trying the text me or gift card scam is a novice scammer, and they're scamming beginner sellers. I've gotten scammer still, but the ones who scam me are a bit more advanced.

C.

[12345jamesstamps]

Ha!...My stories are more funny than yours.

A return which was a dark plastic bag with something mushy in it...and I refused it at the post office...mailman didn't even want to deliver it...lost the case and never found out what was in it...and it came from a Cyprus buyer of my stamps.

I only sell stamps usually.

Got a returned girlie post card from Poland buyer also...not the stamps returned.

[ittybitnot]

 I figure anyone trying the text me or gift card scam is a novice scammer, and they're scamming beginner sellers.

@sin-n-dex 

Yes, they do target "newbie" sellers.  They are also the easiest to avoid if you are a beginning seller.  These scammers are still around though.  They just don't pay. 

It is the ones who have the money to pay (play) with the intent on getting the product for free anyway.  The scamming part doesn't commence right away, but eBay policies traditionally aid in the scammer's success. 

[sin-n-dex]

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@12345jamesstamps wrote:

Ha!...My stories are more funny than yours.

A return which was a dark plastic bag with something mushy in it...and I refused it at the post office...mailman didn't even want to deliver it...lost the case and never found out what was in it...and it came from a Cyprus buyer of my stamps.

I only sell stamps usually.

Got a returned girlie post card from Poland buyer also...not the stamps returned.

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Your stories are funny, but I have lots and lots of stories, they just don't always involve eBay (but they do often involve scammers/liars).

I read of the mushy stuff, probably a good call to not accept it. I got a return of a coin set that rattled a whole lot. The postal clerk asked if I wanted to open it there and maybe refuse it, I told him he's returning something that "wasn't as described" so the rattling was probably him receiving it broken in the first place. (That was true, but I repacked and sold the coins, and only lost 10% of the value of the item).

I have a good story of something that almost happened... a guy in my neighbourhood was frequenting a parking garage at night for some "favours", came out of the garage and hit my car (he was totally at fault and I told him). He didn't want his wife to know, so he lied about being in the parking garage and made up some story about me hitting him because I was an aggressive driver (I'm not, really...)

I told my spouse at the time if the police actually buy his story I'm sending his wife a postcard to tell her what he was really doing in the parking garage that day when he hit my car. The police are smart and found me not at fault, so that never actually did happen, but I enjoyed telling everyone I was thinking of doing that. (I had a cracked bumper on a 15 year old car and a broken headlight, I told him if he pays $100 to fix my headlight I'll forget the whole thing.... he decided to lie and went through insurance who spent $2000 replacing and painting a new bumper, and then his rates went up). I guess what goes around comes around?

C.

[madlock59]

There are tons of scammers selling fake Kayali perfumes, and I can usually tell because they ship from China or have stolen official promo pics. However, I recently bought from a seller who seemed legit (100% positive rate, shipped from Canada) but received a fake in the mail today and was really upset about it. So you can never be truly sure. I honestly think these scammers are something Ebay needs to crack down on because for one authentic Kayali, there are 1000000000 fake ones. Just not fair to the consumer.

[madlock59]

I replied to this thread before realizing it was about scam buyers not scam sellers... My story's still interesting though!

[sin-n-dex]

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@ittybitnot wrote:

 I figure anyone trying the text me or gift card scam is a novice scammer, and they're scamming beginner sellers.

@sin-n-dex 

Yes, they do target "newbie" sellers.  They are also the easiest to avoid if you are a beginning seller.  These scammers are still around though.  They just don't pay. 

It is the ones who have the money to pay (play) with the intent on getting the product for free anyway.  The scamming part doesn't commence right away, but eBay policies traditionally aid in the scammer's success. 

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If you have a policy not to ship anything to someone who hasn't paid you, you can probably weed out the scammers that don't have money to play.

I think I've averted a few would-be scammers but I would rate them as beginners or novices who probably don't have lots of experience scamming. I've also had to refund a few times but didn't make it easy for them to get their money back. I remember one pipsqueak in Canada that did an INR and I made him wait until the very last day to get his refund.

I've also dug up dirt on scammers who got me for more significant amounts of money (to make me angry enough to want to find out more about who they were). One was a bankrupt with a criminal record who took up scamming (based on evidence I dug up), and another was a convicted pedophile (who also took up scamming when he got fired from being a school teacher). There is one serial scammer who's tried three times with me (but I cancel when I see it's him, he can keep changing the spelling of his name or where he lives, but I know it's him), and he's in Canada, so if he ever tries on me again I'm going to file a report with his local PD. Seeing as how he scams for a living and has many victims, the local PD would be interested. I guess that's advantage of having a scammer in your country, you might be able to do something about it.

C.

[sin-n-dex]

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@madlock59 wrote:

There are tons of scammers selling fake Kayali perfumes, and I can usually tell because they ship from China or have stolen official promo pics. However, I recently bought from a seller who seemed legit (100% positive rate, shipped from Canada) but received a fake in the mail today and was really upset about it. So you can never be truly sure. I honestly think these scammers are something Ebay needs to crack down on because for one authentic Kayali, there are 1000000000 fake ones. Just not fair to the consumer.

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Someone I know bought a Nautica coat and we found out it was shipping from China by the delivery date. He said the coat looked real in the photo, I said "that's the thing, it's a picture of a real coat, they will send you a fake one". The coat is to be delivered in February, I let him know his options for MBG (it was eBay) when the fake coat arrives.

C.

[sin-n-dex]

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@madlock59 wrote:

I replied to this thread before realizing it was about scam buyers not scam sellers... My story's still interesting though!

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That's OK, I'm known for starting threads to stir up some discussion.

I get the forum is to help people with problems, but there's lots of regulars here who read, and I like it when someone starts a discussion thread, so I start them myself sometimes.

Anyway I was interested in your story. 🙂 (I'm in Canada BTW)

C.