eBay

custombuiltmac · ‎06-10-2019

Buyer opened return - item not as described / wrong item received & uploaded a photo of his computer in my box.

Item 2018 Mac mini $1549

Accepted return

Received 2009 Mac mini (Value around $150).

This was returned with elements of the packaging from the 2018 Mac mini. So, I know he received the correct computer & simply stuck his computer back in the box and returned it filed as wrong item received.

Shipped UPS signature required / Shipped on time / Have original purchase receipts with serial # (return serial does not match)

Haven't yet clicked "ask eBay to step in and Help".

Sent e-mail to buyer yesterday asking if he mistakenly put the wrong computer in the box --- No reply --- He's been careful not to say anything, but "Wrong item sent ---want my refund"

What do I do at this point? Contact eBay first or complete these first? Have until the 12th to refund or open case.

File USPS Mail Fraud Complaint? (returned via USPS)

File IC3 Internet Crime Complaint

Open case with his local police dept

100% positive feedback 12 year seller with a history of selling $1000+ items daily.

Thank you for any help.

coco9619 · ‎06-10-2019

@custombuiltmac wrote:
100% positive feedback 12 year seller with a history of selling $1000+ items daily.

Thank you for any help.

With a track record like that, your buyer really knows the ropes!

We have no bahamas today.

dknla_7129 · ‎06-10-2019

As you know, there is a waiting period before eBay will step in. However, I would contact them immediately. I actually had a scam group order several items from me and shipped to different locations then after the item shipped they tried to go in and change the delivery address with USPS. They claimed they NEVER received the items they purchased from me and wanted full refunds. Luckily I used eBay shipping with tracking and once eBay looked into it from their end, they contacted USPS themselves. As it turned out, all of the addresses they were rerouting to were the same. So you may find out this person has done this before. I feel that if Sellers don't report BAD Buyers then we ALL suffer. Good luck to you. Donna

dtexley3 · ‎06-10-2019

Sorry to hear you were a victim of this scam!

1. Open an mail fraud case with USPS

2. report fraud with ic3.gov

3. File a report with your local Police Dept and insist they forward a copy to the buyer's local PD.

4. Report the buyer for abuse on eBay using the new links to report abusive buyers.

5. Call eBay and upload all the above documentation. Try asking for Trust and Safety when calling.

6. If eBay finds in the scammers favor, open an appeal and repeat the previous step.

I really wish eBay would stop rewarding these types of buyers.

Member of the Grumpy Old Man crew

jason_incognito · ‎06-10-2019

I'd consider powering up the computer and see what was left on it that can prove it was his.

"Believe in something, even if it means sacrificing everything" Colin Kaepernick the new face of NIKE

ittybitnot · ‎06-10-2019

I am posting two lists of things one must do in these cases. They were offered by another long time ebay seller that deals in very high end goods and has to deal with the related problems this entails. They were posted at different times, and some of the steps will overlap but between the two you should get the idea. I was given permission form the author to repost them when needed.

Ebay is not going to help you much if at all. Report the buyer to ebay, but I would advise DO NOT CLICK on the Ask ebay to step in and help button .

1)File with your police jurisdiction
2) ask your police jurisdiction to get the police in the delivery jurisdiction
3) Pull all information on delivery data and address
4) Google map the delivery address and if a single family home look at property records
5) When the detective from the delivery jurisdiction contacts you give them everything including eBY messages
6) File the Rolex stolen watch report (I have the form or you can call them)
7) Have the detective get in touch with eBay for law enforcement
😎 Tell the Detective you will press charges
9) Have the detective find out if there are multiple eBay iDs associated with this address or ID (In general there will be )
10) you may have to explain to Detective and to the DA in delivery jurisdictions how eBay works, how seller protection works etc (Many think selling on the net is the WIld west)
11) COOPERATE FULLY WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT
12) these theft continue to happen becasue people give up and do not persue becasue its time consuming and hard. Persue it legally
13) Once the Detective has made contact have the item retrieved.

AND/OR

Ok here is the steps when an item is stolen whether through ebay return fraud, CC chargeback paypal return fraud.

1) print your auction/sale
2) download images

3) print invoice
a) print paypal invoice and payment info or your credit card processor data
b) Check the name on the CC or Paypal account may be different then buyer (sometimes 1 paypal account is funding multiple buyers) That might make this wire fraud or RICO if its a ring

4)print proof of delivery signature delivery
a) if USPS this will also be federal see if you have a NAME not just initials or scribble

5) GET GPS coordinates of delivery

6) Google map the delivery GPS (if residential home check property lists helps if the name on the tax record and customer is the same)

7) Print return label and email that shows where you sent the label (proves you were willing to take it back and they failed to do so)

😎 file a police report in your jurisdiction (Get this to ebay paypal or CC professor)

9) Once you have the police report ask that the serial number be put on NCIC and Leads online

10) ask them to get the police report to the jurisdiction of delivery ( might take some convincing)
use words like "Felony level theft"

11) If this is a watch some factories will keep known stolen items serial numbers on hand if the shows up in the service center. Get them the police report and fill out whatever form they need.

12) File an ICCC internet crime report (Provide police report #)

13) If USPS File a Postal inspectors report give serial number and delivery address (FEDERAL) (Provide police report # and ICCC report #)
a) If UPS and FED ex you can provide this but its civil theft in this case (Provide police report #)

14) Once you have a detective and a NEW POLICE REPORT # in the delivery jurisdiction (may take days) get him all the info and ask if he can collect the item. Explain how this harmed you company, they may need to get the jurisdiction attorneys involved as payroll has to be allocated.

15) Give the delivery jurisdiction Detective this link https://pages.ebay.com/securitycenter/law_enforcement.html this will allow ebay and law enforcement to w work together.

16) If the Detective doesn't want to or cannot assist you with a pick up then its time to get your attorney involved. Depending on your jurisdiction you may have a 3X civil theft case.

If the name on the account is not a real name or a real business then you really have no more you can do you are simply out and should speak to your business insurance.

Guest checkout is a big part of this problem.

Good luck, and let us know how things are going.

ersatz_sobriquet · ‎06-10-2019

@jason_incognito wrote:
I'd consider powering up the computer and see what was left on it that can prove it was his.

Yep. Unless he's extremely good at wiping data, there's all kinds of evidence. Do not fiddle with any settings.

Great list itty!

custombuiltmac · ‎06-10-2019

Update so far...

Decided to call the buyer...Hello my name is (...) may I speak to (...) Yes this is him. We have an eBay transaction...Click...Dial tone...and gone.

Filed USPS Mail fraud complaint. No case # or anything just a Thank you for reporting. This felt very unproductive.

Filed IC3 Internet Crime Complaint. At the end of this I could print out the complaint & it put everything in one neat form to print out. This came in handy at the Police dept. However, the we'll contact you if we need further information and no case # here either was less than reassuring.

Police dept. turned me away initially. I'm in a small town & these guys are never going to pursue this. Politely told not to waste their time.

Received invite to eBay Concierge service...oddly 1-2 hours after posting this. Got an American customer service agent. Started at losses are the cost of doing business and ended at maybe we can courtesy 50%, expect a call back in 24 hours, & eBay will need a police report number to do any courtesy.

Back to the Police station. I was snarled at by the receptionist. Didn't he tell you there was nothing we could do. Left to wait for 1.5 hours. Had all forms, tracking #'s, Signature confirmations, auction pages, return photos, IC3 complaint forms neatly printed, stapled, sorted and important details highlighted for the officer who was mostly pleasant when telling me he would be able to get me a report filed within 48 hours & pushing me back out the door.

Told this was an information report only, they would take no action on it, & reminded how I was wasting their time. Great...

I've spent the better part of 10 hours today just dealing with this & I'm exhausted.

The returned Mac mini had a fresh system on it. If there is information that could be recovered through data recovery software I don't see that eBay or law enforcement would care at all whether there was proof or not.

Will post what updates there are tomorrow. Thanks again for all the replies.

candiesduds · ‎06-10-2019

Since the buyer so rudely hung up the phone, instant proof of complete guilt in my book, I would just send them a polite but to the point message or response in the return request. I would inform them that you have filed the mail fraud report, have filed the internet fraud report, have filed a police report in both your town and his and have reported him to Ebay. I would also state he can close the case willingly or you will seek damages in court for what you are out, travel fees/expense as well as interest. He's free not to attend the small claims case, that will guarantee you a win and then you'll proceed to go after a wage garnishment as well as any property in his name. Make it straight forward that you are not going to let this go and that you'll chase him to the ends of the earth for your money lol.

I would take it one step further however and look them up on social media and broadcast it to the world what a lying thief and scammer they are. You can very easily find people's information, actually there are several services you can pay for even that will reveal names, addresses, emails, phone numbers, family members, jobs, etc...HARASS them to no end! I would make certain everyone knew what a POS they were!

You should also have never used USPS unless it was a Priority label with proper insurance. This way you could have filed the insurance claim and when USPS had to eat that cost they would have DEFINITELY been checking into this person! Or UPS, since that is the original carrier used, try contacting them and see what can be done. I would explain you sold x item and customer is stating this is what they received so obviously theft occurred somewhere.

Also is it possible to report that specific device stolen? I would definitely be doing that as well! Good luck I hope you get compensated by Ebay, hold their feet to the fire and don't take no 50% courtesy. Make them actually protect you and uphold their own policies, if they want to facilitate fraud let it come out their bottom line.

custombuiltmac · ‎07-07-2019

Final update here:

eBay covered the transaction 100% (most likely for the buyer and the seller).

The case was put on a 10 day hold and then eBay closed the case 3 days later in the buyer's favor & I received absolutely no notification of this. Called, filed an Appeal and received an e-mail stating I would receive a full refund by replying with a copy of the Police report.

I replied with all the information I had:

Original purchase receipt (showing serial #)

Photos of mismatching return serial # on item

UPS Signature Capture (scanned paper version)

Police Report

USPS Mail Fraud Report

IC3 Internet Crime Complaint

FTC Consumer Complaint (police recommended this)

eBay replied with a full refund 3 days later.

Posting to this message board got me an invite to eBay's concierge customer service. I believe this was one of the single most helpful factors in obtaining a refund. The concierge service is what calling eBay should be for every single user with short wait times and customer service representatives who are authorized to make decisions and effective change.

On a side note I did do a complete file recovery of the buyer's returned 2010 Mac mini. The buyer erased & shipped the computer with a fresh install of Mac OS, but here is a list of the types of information I recovered:

Tax return / W-2

Social Security Number

Prescription receipts / Medical information

Adult photos / Adult dating site e-mail history

Family photos (spanning decades)

E-mail database

Messages from previous scams including him returning the wrong item & signing multiple sworn affidavits on "stolen mail" from amazon, eBay, and others.

I really didn't even dig that deep (there's 600gb of data). The information left was crazy.

Buyer has been scamming for at least 9 years. The address is a single family house with a street address and when he gets "caught" or has his accounts banned he just adds an Apartment number. I found e-mails where his address was Apt. 1, Apt. 2, Apt. 3 and so on.

Ebay covered this one. Thanks everyone for the help and information. This was the most concise and helpful list & these are the basic steps to follow:

1. Open an mail fraud case with USPS

2. report fraud with ic3.gov (maybe FTC complaint also)

3. File a report with your local Police Dept and insist they forward a copy to the buyer's local PD.

4. Report the buyer for abuse on eBay using the new links to report abusive buyers.

5. Call eBay and upload all the above documentation. Try asking for Trust and Safety when calling.

6. If eBay finds in the scammers favor, open an appeal and repeat the previous step.

ed8108 · ‎07-07-2019

@custombuiltmac wrote:
Final update here:

On a side note I did do a complete file recovery of the buyer's returned 2010 Mac mini. The buyer erased & shipped the computer with a fresh install of Mac OS, but here is a list of the types of information I recovered:

Tax return / W-2
Social Security Number
Prescription receipts / Medical information
Adult photos / Adult dating site e-mail history
Family photos (spanning decades)
E-mail database
Messages from previous scams including him returning the wrong item & signing multiple sworn affidavits on "stolen mail" from amazon, eBay, and others.

I really didn't even dig that deep (there's 600gb of data). The information left was crazy.

Buyer has been scamming for at least 9 years. The address is a single family house with a street address and when he gets "caught" or has his accounts banned he just adds an Apartment number. I found e-mails where his address was Apt. 1, Apt. 2, Apt. 3 and so on.

×××××××××××××××××××××

Make everything available that law enforcement may request for prosecution of this low life.

rschissler · ‎07-07-2019

Good for you!

"Messages from previous scams including him returning the wrong item & signing multiple sworn affidavits on "stolen mail" from amazon, eBay, and others.

I really didn't even dig that deep (there's 600gb of data). The information left was crazy.

Buyer has been scamming for at least 9 years. The address is a single family house with a street address and when he gets "caught" or has his accounts banned he just adds an Apartment number. I found e-mails where his address was Apt. 1, Apt. 2, Apt. 3 and so on. "

What do you think about reporting this information to eBay, or did you already?

fern*wood · ‎07-07-2019

I saw on the news recently where an officer pulled a gun on a mother whose toddler walked out of a store shoplifting a toy, but others put on blinders to online theft as if it isn't a crime. I don't get it.

I'm happy you received a refund, and now ebay needs to step up and somehow rid the site of a criminal when they see one.