Help request #2...due to an error on my part will need to initiate refund (when it rains, it pours)

[rustictrollop]

This situation has been on the back burner for 24 hours, but I want to be ready for action once the Buyer makes a final decision as to the outcome.  Long story short:  Buyer purchased a bundle of limited edition cosmetic items.  Somehow, even with OCD tendencies, I mis-listed the color name of a lip gloss.  Yesterday she sent me one of those dreaded "Buyer has a question...." messages.  She was really polite in her explanation, and asked me to look into a possible mix-up, and included a picture of the item in question.  Something about the whole thing made me go, "Hmmmm, what's really going on here?"  But her feedback show no 'signs' either way, and she didn't come across as a scammer.

Bowing to my better angels, being Christmas and all, I sent her a very professional letter of apology, explaining that I am trying to find the item she actually thought she was receiving (today after many calls and much research I learned that it no longer exists...she doesn't know that yet) and would send it promptly if I could find one.  OR, second option was a complete refund for the inconvenience (the items are needed for some production her company is doing and the package was sent to the actual company in New York city).  Since I now know that I cannot give her the replacment for what I thought I had sent, I will have to let her know.  Oddly enough, she has not yet responded to my original message from last night.

Normally I take dozens of photos from every angle, including color identification tags on the bottom of products...I did that for all the items in this bundle, except for the one she claims is incorrect.  I did notice a partial serial code  in my pics, and her pic did not have it, and the color seemed a bit diffferent....but it could be the lighting.  So I'm ready to take my first hit on a potential refund full refund...pending her agreement on that.   I am unsure of the protocol so it can all be done without incurring a defect.  She has not asked for any discounts, only that I check my mistake to see if I have what she paid for and expected to receive.  So, next steps.  Anyone?  Thanks!

[swenson8781]

I agree that your buyer doesn't sound like a scammer AT ALL, which affects how I'd respond.  And this is a situation where every sellers is going to have a different opinion of how to handle it, but here is what I would do...

I have always had the philosophy of running my business based on honesty and doing the 'right' thing, when possible.  So with regards to this situation, I would own it and take accountability.  I would look for it (frantically!), like you did, and knowing that it doesn't exist/can't find it, I would send the buyer a message telling them the truth, that I made the error in the listing, and that I have hunted for the correct item to no avail, along with a sincere apology.  

In that same message, I would offer them options of what they can do...  I could give them a partial refund (the amount of the item for sure, and maybe a bit more to help 'offset' my error) and they could keep remaining items, or if they do not want any of the items, I would advise them to file a SNAD claim and send all items back to me on my dime, and I will promptly refund them when I receive them back.  

It sounds like you simply made an honest mistake.  We are all human sellers, and honest mistakes will happen now & again, even to experienced sellers!

[rustictrollop]

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@swenson8781 wrote:

I agree that your buyer doesn't sound like a scammer AT ALL, which affects how I'd respond.  And this is a situation where every sellers is going to have a different opinion of how to handle it, but here is what I would do...

I have always had the philosophy of running my business based on honesty and doing the 'right' thing, when possible.  So with regards to this situation, I would own it and take accountability.  I would look for it (frantically!), like you did, and knowing that it doesn't exist/can't find it, I would send the buyer a message telling them the truth, that I made the error in the listing, and that I have hunted for the correct item to no avail, along with a sincere apology.  

In that same message, I would offer them options of what they can do...  I could give them a partial refund (the amount of the item for sure, and maybe a bit more to help 'offset' my error) and they could keep remaining items, or if they do not want any of the items, I would advise them to file a SNAD claim and send all items back to me on my dime, and I will promptly refund them when I receive them back.  

It sounds like you simply made an honest mistake.  We are all human sellers, and honest mistakes will happen now & again, even to experienced sellers!

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@swenson8781

Exactly.  I was very professional and owned it, regardless of any inklings of doubt to the contrary.  Admitted the error, tried to find a solution, offered the options.  Ball is now in the Buyer's court.  Still haven't heard anything back from her.

And you answered an important question.  That the BUYER should file the SNAD to initiate a refund (which I will gladly give in full).  The items cost me nothing, and they are cosmetics, so I will not/cannot take them back anyway.    It's a 'make it right' situation to offset any disappointment and inconvenience on the Buyer's part.

Thank you so much for your wise words!!

[muttlymob]

I am unsure of the protocol so it can all be done without incurring a defect. 

If you made the listing error, why would you expect to get out of this without a defect?

[tunicaslot]

swenson's response is spot on. Being this just happened yesterday and it's busier than ever due to the holiday season - give the buyer another day to respond. She may have not expected you to reply so quickly!

[rustictrollop]

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@muttlymob wrote:

I am unsure of the protocol so it can all be done without incurring a defect. 

If you made the listing error, why would you expect to get out of this without a defect?

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@muttlymob

That's why I put the question out here.  I am aware that defects can be given for not following procedures properly during the return/refund process.  I was not aware that I can receive a defect for a listing error, which consisted of one word in the item description, pertaining to the color.  All of which I admitted to the Buyer, apologized for, and offered to replace or refund.  So far she has not filed an official complaint and her original message  was extremely gracious.

[rustictrollop]

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@tunicaslot wrote:

swenson's response is spot on. Being this just happened yesterday and it's busier than ever due to the holiday season - give the buyer another day to respond. She may have not expected you to reply so quickly!

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@tunicaslot

Indeed.  She waited two days before contacting me about the error with the item color, and now it's going on two days since I responded in kind with my admission of error and profuse apologies.  I will not poke a sleeping dog if she is satisfied with my response to her initial message and perhaps (fingers crossed) has decided it's not such a big deal, in that she seemed to be very professional and pleasant about the whole situation.  As my message to her stated after outlining her options of replace or refund, "Please let me know....".  Time will tell right?

[tunicaslot]

You've done everything you can for now - so yes time will tell! I want to TY for being such a nice responsibile seller - there are a lot of us out there but many times - it's easier to blame someone else or something else than own it and try to make it right! Owning your mistakes doesn't always get appreciated.

[odditiesandantiquities1]

When I make a mistake with a customer and I certainly have a few times, I admit I go a bit batty with the communication.  Sometimes I realize before the customer receives the item, sometimes the customer sends me a message.

In the last situation, I must have sent her three messages, with apologies. return for refund, offering pictures of alternates, etc. Since my prices are quite high I can't offer to refund allow them to keep the item.

In the end she was calming me down and telling me not to worry, that we could get it figured out. She is now a 3 times return customer.  

Not recommending my process but it has worked for me. 

[muttlymob]

I am aware that defects can be given for not following procedures properly during the return/refund process.  I was not aware that I can receive a defect for a listing error, which consisted of one word in the item description, pertaining to the color. 

Defects are intended for sellers who don't follow through on a transaction, whether intentional or accidental.  Defects are not intended as a punishment for not following procedures during the return process.  It seems more prevalent that defects are avoided by sellers intentionally choosing the wrong reasons for a cancellation.

Here are the options for a seller initiated cancellation:

Unless you lie in your choice you will get a defect.  Your situation falls under out of stock since you don't have the color that you advertised.

The Seller Performance Standards page outlines when defects are assigned.  Note that a small number of defects are allowed, consider it an acknowledgement that mistakes do happen.  But also a strong incentive to learn from mistakes to prevent them from happening again.

https://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/seller-non-performance.html

[fern*wood]

I don't advocate defect avoidance, but it is my understanding that if an error occurred, I should have the buyer open a case.  I can either refund or have them return for a refund, and neither would result in a defect.   I see no reason to file a cancellation.

[swenson8781]

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@fern*wood wrote:

I don't advocate defect avoidance, but it is my understanding that if an error occurred, I should have the buyer open a case.  I can either refund or have them return for a refund, and neither would result in a defect.   I see no reason to file a cancellation.

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I agree with this, there is no reason to file a cancellation.  ONE item out of a lot of how many? Does not = out of stock.  And an error/mistake in the listing is not the same as not having the (one) item at all, or only the (one) wrong item, to ship.  

So I don't even feel there is 'defect avoidance' in this situation.  The items (several) were sent to the buyer, a mistake was made on one item, the transaction is already in progress.  A cancellation is something that is done usually prior to the item(s) being shipped to the buyer.  Either the seller doesn't have the item(s)-so OOS reason, the buyers address is incorrect, or the buyer requests to cancel.

The return process is used to resolve issues after items are shipped.  And if a seller wants to fully refund a buyer 'after' the items have been sent, without receiving them back (I don't recommend doing this often, but it's possible to do), the seller can do that through the return system also.

[rustictrollop]

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@muttlymob wrote:

I am aware that defects can be given for not following procedures properly during the return/refund process.  I was not aware that I can receive a defect for a listing error, which consisted of one word in the item description, pertaining to the color. 

Defects are intended for sellers who don't follow through on a transaction, whether intentional or accidental.  Defects are not intended as a punishment for not following procedures during the return process.  It seems more prevalent that defects are avoided by sellers intentionally choosing the wrong reasons for a cancellation.

Here are the options for a seller initiated cancellation:

Unless you lie in your choice you will get a defect.  Your situation falls under out of stock since you don't have the color that you advertised.

The Seller Performance Standards page outlines when defects are assigned.  Note that a small number of defects are allowed, consider it an acknowledgement that mistakes do happen.  But also a strong incentive to learn from mistakes to prevent them from happening again.

https://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/seller-non-performance.html

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@muttlymob

Thank you for all that information.  Very helpful.

Unfortunately with this situation, I wasn't aware of a problem until a couple of days AFTER the Buyer already received the items.  The reason my potential scam radar went up for a moment was that the picture the buyer sent of the item in question, didn't quite match the pics of the item I posted.  My item clearly had a serial number, the one in her pic did not, and the color was a bit different, but that could be because of angle, lighting, etc.  Since the buyer was extremely easy going about the situation, I have given her the benefit of the doubt and do not want to create further aggravation.  So, she has the goods, but has not yet filed a SNAD.  I have no doubt that she is well aware by this point, as my frantic research and numerous calls to sources has shown, that the exact color she wants is no longer available and extremely rare.

I do not intent to make such a mistake again, if I can help it.

[rustictrollop]

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@swenson8781 wrote:

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@fern*wood wrote:

I don't advocate defect avoidance, but it is my understanding that if an error occurred, I should have the buyer open a case.  I can either refund or have them return for a refund, and neither would result in a defect.   I see no reason to file a cancellation.

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I agree with this, there is no reason to file a cancellation.  ONE item out of a lot of how many? Does not = out of stock.  And an error/mistake in the listing is not the same as not having the (one) item at all, or only the (one) wrong item, to ship.  

So I don't even feel there is 'defect avoidance' in this situation.  The items (several) were sent to the buyer, a mistake was made on one item, the transaction is already in progress.  A cancellation is something that is done usually prior to the item(s) being shipped to the buyer.  Either the seller doesn't have the item(s)-so OOS reason, the buyers address is incorrect, or the buyer requests to cancel.

The return process is used to resolve issues after items are shipped.  And if a seller wants to fully refund a buyer 'after' the items have been sent, without receiving them back (I don't recommend doing this often, but it's possible to do), the seller can do that through the return system also.

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@swenson8781

@fern*wood

The Buyer finally contacted me.  She is now aware that the item in question is discontinued and no longer available, and has chosen the option of a full refund.  Thankfully, she was extremely pleasant in her message, so I want to make the return process quick and to avoid any problems.  I do not want the items back, as they are cosmetic, and return shipping would be much to expensive.  I view this as a small price to pay for an error that I have learned from, and by being as professional as possible, I can hopefully avoid neutral or negative feedback.

Can I initiate the full refund?  Or does she have to file a SNAD first?  I don't want to make her jump through any hoops if I can do this without having to take up any more of her time, particularly since it is Christmas.

[lintbrush* · Accepted solution]

What I would do?

Tell the buyer in order to process her refund, she would need to open a return request for Not As Described.  

You will then be able to issue the refund (with or without requiring a return) through the claim.  Once you've done so, the case will close, your see fees will be refunded, and you will not get a defect.