eBay

gjlutz · ‎04-29-2018

I sent an item through global shipping and it was damaged during transit. Usually I have had no problem with getting reimbursed in the past for this, until now.... Buyer filed through Paypal as "not as described" instead of filing through Ebay, and because of this it has been a nightmare! It has been 2 weeks, and now Paypal is saying another month to look into this??? My $200 in funds is being held, and I've called them twice with no luck. They informed me that it should have gone through Ebay, (which I'm aware of ), instead of them, but now there is nothing they can do about it. My question is; Is there a chance this will go wrong for me? Why should it be different how they treat the case just because its Paypay and not Ebay? I packed item extremely well and absolutely do not feel that this should be on me, nor do I feel the buyer should lose either. If Global shipping is going to be so difficult to use, then I will not be using them anymore, not worth the risk.

lovtaco0 · ‎05-02-2018

@Anonymous wrote:
@lovtaco0 wrote:
@Anonymous, you have been saying that the site does not specify a seller is covered with all forms of claims that can be filed and that it should be assumed that a claim filed with eBay is the only way a seller is covered.

eBay should change the wording because it implies that a seller is covered no matter where the claim is filed - see the passages outlined in red font above. They are stated as absolutes and it's conveying that a seller is covered. Period.

The UK program is more specific and the US program should add this wording to their site:

You will not be responsible under the eBay Money Back Guarantee or PayPal Buyer Protection Programmes for the loss of, or damage to, a GSP Item after its acceptance at the UK Shipping Centre.

Please pass on to the team working out the Adyen system that if a CC chargeback is filed when Adyen is processing the payment that the seller should be covered.
Hi @lovtaco0, fantastic callout! Thank you so much for letting me know about the wording in the UK. I'm happy to submit this over for possible updates. As for your suggestions regarding our future plans for intermediated payments, I recommend you send these over to paymentsinfo@ebay.com for review! Be sure to include as much detail as possible so the appropriate teams have context for your ideas.

@Anonymous, @marnotom!, the US pages used to have this language. A lot of info from policy pages was changed when the redesign went into effect. I posted below a screenshot and link to some of the policy page from October 2017.

https://web.archive.org/web/20171009052742/http://pages.ebay.com:80/help/sell/shipping-globally.html

marnotom! · ‎05-02-2018

So what that last bit seems to be implying is that while a seller isn't responsible for loss or damage that occurs after the item is forwarded by the Global Shipping Center, a seller is still responsible for a refund if something other than a claim through the MBG or PayPal's PPP is made.

Seems a bit contradictory to me. A seller is not liable, but still has to issue a refund?

gjlutz · ‎05-02-2018

My fellow eBayers - first, I want to thank everyone for the continued support that you have given me throughout this ordeal. I agree with everyone that eBay and/or Paypal will likely attempt to resolve this by providing me with a reimbursement, however that does nothing to resolve the root problem. The ultimate root issue is that Paypal is not on the same page with eBay in regards to policy guidelines regarding GSP reimbursements. It has become blatently evident that there is a major loophole in the policy that eBay has published that they either, 1) completely missed or 2) omitted by choice. My fear is that they will attempt to provide me with a refund as "hush money" - and then they will update their policies to document that they will not include protection for Credit Card disputes - which impacts us all. This is how they are going to "help us". That will ensure that it we be documented properly to cover themselves - and to ensure that a conversation like the one here does not happen again in the future. Here is my suggestion... Perhaps "Trinton" can escalate this issue to his management - and recommend that they reach out to Paypal and come to a reasonable solution to this problem. As it stands - this issue will single handedly destroy eBay's Global Shipping program. The risk is too high to the seller - and we will stop using it. PayPal literally told me on my (numerous) calls with them - that they do not have the resources, nor direct line to the shipper (Pitney) to deal with this directly - and will continue to treat these as "Not As Described" cases - rather than what they truly are.

gramophone-georg · ‎05-02-2018

@marnotom! wrote:
I've posted this to another thread, but I'm thinking it may get more legs here. (Speaking of getting legs, thanks for reposting the passage I quoted from the eBay UK version of the GSP seller terms and conditions, @lovtaco0.)

This portion of the Global Shipping "FAQ" for sellers on the .com site says nothing about "protection", nothing about the Money Back Guarantee, and nothing about PayPal. It simply states that the seller shoulders the risk of loss or damage to a GSP item only until the item is accepted at the Global Shipping Center.

Could it be that when the dust finally settles on this, Pitney Bowes should be ensuring that the seller has not shouldered any loss?

This. eBay sold sellers on the GSP program SPECIFICALLY stating that risk of INR or damage was NOT THE SELLER'S RESPONSIBILITY ONCE IT GETS TO ERLANGER.

It STILL says that.

Is anybody actually in charge of this operation? This is insane.

Chaos is NOT an "industry standard".

ted_200 · ‎05-03-2018

@lovtaco0 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@lovtaco0 wrote:
@Anonymous, you have been saying that the site does not specify a seller is covered with all forms of claims that can be filed and that it should be assumed that a claim filed with eBay is the only way a seller is covered.

eBay should change the wording because it implies that a seller is covered no matter where the claim is filed - see the passages outlined in red font above. They are stated as absolutes and it's conveying that a seller is covered. Period.

The UK program is more specific and the US program should add this wording to their site:

You will not be responsible under the eBay Money Back Guarantee or PayPal Buyer Protection Programmes for the loss of, or damage to, a GSP Item after its acceptance at the UK Shipping Centre.

Please pass on to the team working out the Adyen system that if a CC chargeback is filed when Adyen is processing the payment that the seller should be covered.
Hi @lovtaco0, fantastic callout! Thank you so much for letting me know about the wording in the UK. I'm happy to submit this over for possible updates. As for your suggestions regarding our future plans for intermediated payments, I recommend you send these over to paymentsinfo@ebay.com for review! Be sure to include as much detail as possible so the appropriate teams have context for your ideas.
@Anonymous, @marnotom!, the US pages used to have this language. A lot of info from policy pages was changed when the redesign went into effect. I posted below a screenshot and link to some of the policy page from October 2017.

https://web.archive.org/web/20171009052742/http://pages.ebay.com:80/help/sell/shipping-globally.html

But even that says "You aren't responsible for item loss or damage that occurs after the item is forwarded by the U.S. shipping center". It then goes on to talk about the MBG and PPP. Since there was no MBG or PPP case here, that's all irrelevant.

SOMEBODY is responsible for the loss, eBay's page says it's not you, and then eBay's employees (and PayPal) say it is you.

You will not be responsible under the eBay Money Back Guarantee or PayPal Buyer Protection Programmes for the loss of, or damage to, a GSP Item after its acceptance at the UK Shipping Centre.

That's no better. It completely ignores who is responsible in the event of a chargeback, and it does nothing to negate the other statements about the seller having no loss of risk once it's accepted at the shipping center.

Chargebacks currently come through PayPal unless a seller is using their own merchant account. In the future they will come through eBay. That gives eBay more control setting up agreements for CC chargebacks and I am suggesting they look at this and offer more protection to sellers.

Well, I agree they should be offering more protection... unconditional protection... otherwise the program is pretty useless. But the current TOS already offers it... it's just that GSP (eBay/PB/PP) won't actually provide it. Since they cannot prohibit opening a chargeback, or dictate terms to the cc co.s, the only option is for the GSP (eBay/PB/PP) to eat the loss and NOT pass the chargeback on to the seller.

The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves.

ted_200 · ‎05-03-2018

My fear is that they will attempt to provide me with a refund as "hush money" - and then they will update their policies to document that they will not include protection for Credit Card disputes - which impacts us all. This is how they are going to "help us".

Well, if they're not going to provide any protection, they certainly should come out and say so (in the Terms of Service, not on a Discussion Board). That would be far more helpful than saying "you're responsibility ends" when it apparently doesn't, and "you're covered" when you're not.

The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves.

myangelandmyprincess · ‎05-03-2018

@ittybitnot wrote:
The gsp as long as long as the seller has proof of delivery to the GSP.

They are supposed to take care of damaged in shipping stuff as well. We can add now ..."unless it is a credit card chargeback". What makes this any different? Credit card SNAD or INR? INR is ok.....Unless it is a credit card chargeback?

But paypals other seller protection policies cover that so the seller would still be covered under PayPal policy