04-29-2018 01:56 PM
I sent an item through global shipping and it was damaged during transit. Usually I have had no problem with getting reimbursed in the past for this, until now.... Buyer filed through Paypal as "not as described" instead of filing through Ebay, and because of this it has been a nightmare! It has been 2 weeks, and now Paypal is saying another month to look into this??? My $200 in funds is being held, and I've called them twice with no luck. They informed me that it should have gone through Ebay, (which I'm aware of ), instead of them, but now there is nothing they can do about it. My question is; Is there a chance this will go wrong for me? Why should it be different how they treat the case just because its Paypay and not Ebay? I packed item extremely well and absolutely do not feel that this should be on me, nor do I feel the buyer should lose either. If Global shipping is going to be so difficult to use, then I will not be using them anymore, not worth the risk.
05-03-2018 04:24 PM
@ted_200 wrote:
@marnotom! wrote:
@ted_200 wrote:
as an active and mandatory participant in the GSP they have an obligation to the TOS. The GSP TOS says whether the claim against the seller originates at PayPal or originates at eBay MBG, the seller is not responsible and no longer has risk of loss for damage once received at GSP PB.@ted_200, do you have a link to the GSP terms and conditions (assuming that's what you mean by TOS) for sellers? As a Canadian eBay user, I'd like to find out more about them.
Actually, I spent about 15 minutes wandering blindly all over the site looking for them. It's scattered everywhere, from the U.A. to the Seller Center, to it's own page. I have been unable to sufficiently parse the weasel words to know for sure if they've loop-holed themselves out of responsibility, or if they're simply not living up to the deal.
I started with the link to the canadian policy above and changed it to .com.
http://pages.ebay.com/shipping/globalshipping/buyer-tnc.html
That thing is dated 2014, not sure if it's current.
A link in that took me to this page:
Which led to this page:
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/selling/selling-internationally?id=4132
Seeing as that was pretty much useless, I went to the UA, which mentions it here:
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behaviour-policies/user-agreement?id=4259#Global
That leads to this Seller Center page:
https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/shipping/global-shipping-program.html
And this FAQ page:
https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/faq/global-shipping.html
Among those FAQ's is this statement:
As a seller your responsibility ends once the item reaches the Global Shipping Center. If the item is lost or damaged during international transit, the Program has you covered.
I can't find this anymore. Watch, they'll pretend it never existed.
05-03-2018 04:56 PM
@bubbleman2010 wrote:I bet OP gets reinbursed......
Of course he will. But will anyone else?
05-03-2018 05:01 PM
The majority will go unpayed due to they don't know where to turn and believe what they are told by ebay CS is the truth.... Folks make the claim of fraud on ebay is a very small percentage and anywhere I go and anyone I meet if the topic turns to ebay they want to share thier horror story about be ripped off....
05-03-2018 05:04 PM
The fellow I work for and a close friend of mine between the two lost $1900.00 worth of merchandise I tried to warn them,but the believed what ebay told them when they chatted with CS..... I told them the reality,but the fantasy story from ebay CS paid better....
05-03-2018 05:11 PM
@d-k_treasures wrote:
@bubbleman2010 wrote:I bet OP gets reinbursed......
Of course he will. But will anyone else?
No. Because sellers who are a victim to this insanity don’t land here on the boards. This OP now has the attention of eBay staff who can get things taken care of. He can complain loud enough. Those who don’t land here, will find themselves stonewalled by customer service and told “too bad so sad”.
05-03-2018 05:28 PM
@missjen831 wrote:
@d-k_treasures wrote:
@bubbleman2010 wrote:I bet OP gets reinbursed......
Of course he will. But will anyone else?
No. Because sellers who are a victim to this insanity don’t land here on the boards. This OP now has the attention of eBay staff who can get things taken care of. He can complain loud enough. Those who don’t land here, will find themselves stonewalled by customer service and told “too bad so sad”.
And they just mentioned again regarding a chargeback on the chat today. Not covered.
That is just so wrong on so many levels. Glad I don't use the GSP or ship international(anymore - mainly I don't want my toys copied by china or india).
05-03-2018 05:42 PM
And they just mentioned again regarding a chargeback on the chat today. Not covered.
That is just so wrong on so many levels. Glad I don't use the GSP or ship international(anymore - mainly I don't want my toys copied by china or india).
PP should have billed the entire chargeback to PB. They know it's a GSP item, they processed the separate fee for the buyer-GSP shipping contract. Title for an unbroken item transferred to the buyer at GSP acceptance, they know that, they're a GSP partner. They could have, and should have, successfully challenged the chargeback for the item payment, but they didn't bother. Billing the chargeback to the seller is basically fraud.
05-03-2018 06:45 PM - edited 05-03-2018 06:46 PM
@myangelandmyprincess wrote:
Besides making your items available worldwide, there are a number of benefits to using the Global Shipping Program:
- If an item is lost or broken during international shipping, eBay Money Back Guarantee cases will be resolved in your favour, and your seller performance standards won’t be affected
Thanks for the quote and the link, @myangelandmyprincess. That was very interesting.
I think that since this is an eBay "help" page and that it makes no mention of liability, responsibilty or even the party (i.e. Pitney Bowes) involved in the shipping of Global Shipping Program items, this would not pass muster as a legal online document the way the FAQ page might. It certainly can't be interpreted as a set of terms and conditions, at any rate. As such, I don't think there's any "lying by omission" being committed here. It's just a cheesey-breezy bit of promotional fluff.
However, I'm no legal expert, particularly on matters that don't directly concern Canada. 😄
05-03-2018 08:21 PM
I think that since this is an eBay "help" page and that it makes no mention of liability, responsibilty or even the party (i.e. Pitney Bowes) involved in the shipping of Global Shipping Program items, this would not pass muster as a legal online document the way the FAQ page might.
That is true, the Help page isn't necessarily part of the Terms of Service. I don't think FAQ pages typically pass as TOS or User Agreements or binding contracts either, although that FAQ page has a "Legal" section, so maybe it does. I guess that would be up to eBay's appointed arbitration representative...
At this point, any further discussion is going to be hampered by the fact that eBay has apparently edited the various pages since this discussion began. Since they will make no announcement and will not tell us what was changed, this is a "moving the goal posts" situation now.
05-03-2018 11:40 PM
@myangelandmyprincess wrote:
@ted_200 wrote:Also in those FAQ's:
Who is responsible if the item is lost or damaged?
As between you and your buyer, the risk of loss or damage to a GSP item shall remain with you until the GSP item is accepted at the Global Shipping Center or has been returned to you by Pitney Bowes from the Global Shipping Center. As between your buyer and Pitney Bowes, risk of loss or damage to a GSP item shall transfer to your buyer from Pitney Bowes and/or its third party parcel processing service providers when the GSP item leaves the Global Shipping Center.
I have no idea if this stuff is binding, nor if it is contradicted or qualified with an escape hatch somewhere else. There are enough mountains of weasel words covering this to keep an entire team of lawyers busy for a week. But it looks to me like eBay/PayPal/PB don't want to live up to their obligations and they're Sgt. Schultz-ing sellers to avoid paying their liabilities under the program terms.
In that section is where it specifically mentions the money back guarantee and PayPal purchase protection in the first drop down since it's in the same section it transfers over to the other drops downs.
Please note IM NOT saying this is fair just pointing out the legal arguments they can use
Same link under this heading says....
When does title transfer from me to the buyer?
Title to a GSP item remains with you until such time as the GSP item is successfully delivered to the designated recipient of the GSP item, at which time title to the GSP item shall transfer to the designated recipient. At no time do eBay (or its affiliates), Pitney Bowes (or its affiliates), or the third party logistics providers, shipping carriers, customs brokers, freight forwarders, or other subcontractors under contract with Pitney Bowes take title to GSP items, except as otherwise provided.
So, this is a double edged sword. No one has looked at the buyers part in this. Op what You showed in the link is that the Seller does NOT have responsibility AFTER the item is accepted by Pitney Bowes, and that it transfers to the BUYER...(see red at top)
In the next question When does title transfer to BUYER...the statement on the TOS reads...Title to a GSP item remains with you until such time as the GSP item is successfully delivered to the designated recipient of the GSP item, at which time title to the GSP item shall transfer to the designated recipient.
So, the Buyer is not also protected...one statement says they own the item when it gets to Pitney Bowes, the other says they are responsible when the item gets delivered.
The Seller reads they are PROTECTED BY eBAY and Pay Pal (and obviously it is NOT mentioned they do Not cover Chargebacks. ) BUT IT DOES SAY...Title to a GSP item remains with you until such time as the GSP item is successfully delivered to the designated recipient of the GSP item.
- eBay is willing to take responsibility IF the Buyer files a case with them if the item is broken or does not arrive. (For example: IF I buy insurance and send widget through USPS, I can't got to UPS and make a claim.).
- Pay Pal is willing to say the money has been received, it is a valid address, and we will help You with chargebacks.
- Pitney Bowes is saying we do not have ownership (title) for the item at any time...We are ONLY responsible for Delivery confirmation to the address on the box. (IF anything IS broken or not delivered then You have to file Your case with eBay, they are OUR INSURANCE!)
Amoung the fluff is Title Ownership
Anyway...Just a little tough meat to chew on. I think You are right angel.
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Sugar
05-03-2018 11:50 PM
@ted_200 wrote:https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/faq/global-shipping.html
Among those FAQ's is this statement:
As a seller your responsibility ends once the item reaches the Global Shipping Center. If the item is lost or damaged during international transit, the Program has you covered.
I can't find this anymore. Watch, they'll pretend it never existed.
@ted_200, that text is still there. It's under the How To's [sic] section. I don't see anything changed or removed since yesterday.
05-04-2018 08:04 AM
05-04-2018 08:44 AM
@berserkerplanet wrote:
Good job eBay.
In spite of opting out at the very beginning when eBay auto opted me into GSP, lately I had been vaguely thinking about considering GSP if the right items seemed to warrant selling internationally again.
Since "that's what it says, but that isn't what it means" seems to be the current eBay/GSP line, you can forget it eBay. Isn't gonna happen Wouldn't be prudent.
My understanding is that chargebacks are generally very difficult for consumers to initiate in most countries. The United States seems to be the only country where they're relatively easy to launch. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP's buyer really had to kick up a fuss to get their financial institution to start a chargeback investigation when PayPal was already dealing with the SNAD claim in-house.
05-04-2018 09:38 AM
@myangelandmyprincess wrote:
Besides making your items available worldwide, there are a number of benefits to using the Global Shipping Program:
- If an item is lost or broken during international shipping, eBay Money Back Guarantee cases will be resolved in your favour, and your seller performance standards won’t be affected
But this is a CC chargeback through Paypal which means eBay can say there is nothing they can do (and they would be right).
This seems to be a gray area, although to me it is evident that PB is responsible and should reimburse either seller or buyer (I am certain PB has insurance for lost/damaged shipments).
I am really glad I never opted into GSP and never will, based on this thread.
05-04-2018 04:11 PM
@lovtaco0 wrote:
@ted_200 wrote:https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/faq/global-shipping.html
Among those FAQ's is this statement:
As a seller your responsibility ends once the item reaches the Global Shipping Center. If the item is lost or damaged during international transit, the Program has you covered.
I can't find this anymore. Watch, they'll pretend it never existed.
@ted_200, that text is still there. It's under the How To's [sic] section. I don't see anything changed or removed since yesterday.
Well, that's why I said "I can't find it", and "apparently". It's really hard to find anything once, let alone twice, in the maze of pages / agreements / links / FAQs / Seller Information / Buyer Terms.
Thanks for pointing that out.