Fraud

[jujmc.us.29jzih]

My name is Julie. I've been having trouble finding a place to email this.  My daughter's husband was listing an item for a seller thinking that he could make some additional income.  He listed a watch and did receive a payment so he thought this was legitimate.  The person asked him to use friends and family for payment.  My daughter and her husband found out that this person didn't send the watch and they were turned over to collections for $8600.  My daughter is 22 and needless to say does not have money.  Her husband was mortified that he fell for this and wouldn't let her tell anyone so this has just sat in collections since it happened.  I don't know what to do or if there is anything we can do.  If there is someone that we can contact for help on this please let me know.  This is just going to continue to ruin their credit and we certainly don't have the money to pay it.  I understand this is certainly a horrible lesson but this is so wrong.  If anyone knows who I should contact at Ebay, please let me know.

Thanks

[city*satins]

If you can bear to wade through it, Mother Teresa: The Final Verdict by Aroup Chatterjie is heavy going but provides an impressive amount of documented evidence. Not disputing her religious zeal, but rather her so-called humanitarianism and charity for which she enjoyed so much acclaim.  The truth is actually very bleak and disheartening to contemplate, and the underlying hypocrisy of it very saddening.  

Reviews of this (and other books about her)  provide some good summaries (and rabbit holes to dive into if one isn't careful)  

I think you'll find that some research quickly bears fruit. 

[missjen831]

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@reallynicestampswrote:

We know (although SIL apparently did not) that F&F payments are not recoverable.

The scammer did know that though.

I wonder about the Hold on new sellers cleared payments too. Don't you American sellers have to include a tracking number to prove the item is sent or preferably received before the money is released to a new seller?

Those are questions.

As to advice, I'm with the majority of posters, SIL has to print out all his communications with the scammer and get his butt down to the police station.

Not all Nigerian princes, overseas troops, widowed Marines, and oceanographers looking to sell Kubota Tractors, are outside the USA.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/12/30/nigerian-prince-email-scammer-louisiana/99...

Go to the police.

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No, you don’t have to provide tracking. PayPal will release the funds in 21 days without tracking. If you want the funds released faster, you have to upload tracking and they will release the funds within 3 days if the item being delivered.

[turquoisetulips]

Just curious but why is everyone thinking the SIL did something wrong on purpose.

Sometimes people are desperate so they take chances - unfortunate ones. emerald unquote ----------------

The ops daughter is only 20 years old so I assume her son in law is around that age as well . This makes them less experienced in the adult world  and an easier target for scammers . I agree , we should give them the benefit of the doubt . Tulips 

[reallynicestamps]

you have to upload tracking and they will release the funds within 3 days if the item being delivered.

Okay that's what I was trying to remember.

Us foreigners don't have the luxury of a faster release.

We could provide tracking, Signature Proof of Delivery, Glowing Green feedback, and a Registered letter of thanks cc'd to the current CEO's of both eBay and Paypal, but we still don't get our money until 21 days have passed.

I guess the other point is that SIL couldn't supply Proof of Delivery, nor did the scammer.

So at least 21 days passed before PP would release the money to SIL, and SIL sent it on (minus his cut, probably?) to the scammer.

I bought shares in a gold mine when I was 24.

[turquoisetulips]

Adult daughter and adult son-in-law.  Neither of whom has done a single thing to resolve the problem on their own except that now that it's a monstrous (previously huge) problem,  call mom.  

How is that not total mishegas?   city satins to emerald - unquote --------------------------------

Please bear in mind these are basically kids were talking about . I remember being 20 years old  and being  still in the dark  on how to handle some  difficult situations  in the right way. I was still asking my parents for advice as well . I don't think we need to jump to some harsh conclusions  without knowing more of the facts  . Tulips 

[turquoisetulips]

As far ad Mother Teresa, never heard of what you said about her.  In fact it is very contrary to what I always thought.  Will have to do some research on her to respond further. emerald to city - unquote ---------------

I've never heard of those charges either and I consider myself a pretty avid reader . I'm not catholic but I do have a deep respect for someone who gave her whole  life  to serve the sick and the needy . Tulips 

[webwanna]

You are right, WE don't need to jump to conclusions, harsh or otherwise.  The story that was provided was full of holes and definitely seems strange.  Pointed that out is incumbent on Community Participants who actually know how things are done on Ebay.

Ofcourse it may not be what she wants to hear.  She was hoping mothers get to call into Ebay and say pretty please remove that collection accounts from my child's credit report and then Ebay does.  Poof!  Problem solved.

This thread is very frustrating to me because this is one more person who has defrauded Ebay out of a huge amount of money.... which will surely result in MY FEES going up to cover it.   I am OK with providing the link to the Security Center for this mother since that is what she asked for, but she will also hear my opinion on this bizarre story she has told. 

Right now, from Ebay's perspective her SIL has defrauded Ebay out of $8600.  That would most likely be considered a felony.   (hence the suggestion to speak to an attorney)  People that don't recognize there is more of concern with this story than getting the item removed from a credit report are doing this mother no favors.  Sometimes adults are naive too.

[city*satins]

I've never heard of those charges either and I consider myself a pretty avid reader . I'm not catholic but I do have a deep respect for someone who gave her whole  life  to serve the sick and the needy . Tulips 

Since you're an avid reader, this one is pretty easy to research if you are interested.  And it isn't even 'fake news'.

[thatsallfolks]

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@jujmc.us.29jzihwrote:
He was just looking for what he thought was an easy way to make money.

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There is no easy way to make money. That's why scammers are successful. 

[coolections]

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@emerald40wrote:

Just curious but why is everyone thinking the SIL did something wrong on purpose.  Sometimes people are desperate so they take chances - unfortunate ones.

But do not understand based on what was posted that some think he was in on the fraud or it is a story to get MIL to give them some money. They are family, so why the need to tell her such mishegas. 

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From the story it does not make sense at all. Who is the person who had the watch in which the SIL supposedly sold it for ? Something is not adding up. What do you mean he took a chance out of desperation ? Who would agree to sell a $6,000 item for someone ? Why would anyone agree to list a watch they never saw ? It sounds like they might not even know the person who supposedly had it. Why would anyone hold off for that long to do anything about it ? Someone is not being honest with the OP. Too many unanswered questions.

[a_c_green]

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@coolections wrote: 
From the story it does not make sense at all. Who is the person who had the watch in which the SIL supposedly sold it for ? Something is not adding up. What do you mean he took a chance out of desperation ? Who would agree to sell a $6,000 item for someone ? Why would anyone agree to list a watch they never saw ? It sounds like they might not even know the person who supposedly had it. Why would anyone hold off for that long to do anything about it ? Someone is not being honest with the OP. Too many unanswered questions.

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Actually the claimed loss here is $8600, not just $6000, and from what I'm reading here, the victim did indeed not know the guy for whom he was selling this supposed watch. It sounds to me as if he responded to one of those ubiquitous spams looking for people to sell for some guy who's supposedly too busy to sell for himself, or something like that. Sort of like dropshipping, but with one guy running things from... someplace.

The reason I asked about the PayPal account receiving the payment was because this is really above and beyond some tiff about a broken cookie jar, or for that matter any other object whose existence is not in question. This is just plain fraud, and I would hope that PayPal would share the account info with law enforcement, although I would not expect them to just blurt it out over the phone; a court order would presumably be needed first. Let the police worry about that. (For an $8600 loss, I would expect at least a little investigation.)

The part I'm not understanding is how PayPal actually gave out $8600 to that account, and (1) can't claw it back again, and (2) where they found clear funds from the victim in the first place. Did the victim actually have $8600 in actual dollars in their PayPal account in the first place? If not, where did their funds come from?

What was the eBay listing number for this fictitious watch?

[southern*sweet*tea]

Here's how the scam goes:

You answer an ad for someone wanting an Ebay seller to sell things for them. They have a business, want to expand online and have no time or experience selling online so they need someone to do it for them. They provide the items, the pictures, the listing info. You list on your seller account. You receive X amount of the proceeds. Sounds great, right?

You list items that do not, and never did, exist on your account. You pay your "supplier" their "profits" through the friends and family option because once that money is sent, it is irreversible.

Buyers pay, the "supplier" does not deliver because the item does not exist.  Buyer files a case, the amount gets reversed in your Paypal account. If you don't pay it back, you get taken to collections.

This scam as been around as long as Ebay  has.

To recap:

You sell the item, receive payment, and pass most of it on. Buyer never gets the item (because there IS none). Buyer disputes, you lose because you can not prove delivery......  the money gets reversed. You are 100 % liable and there is absolutely nothing Ebay or Paypal can do for you.  I would assume they would cooperate with a police investigation, but as always the seller is always responsible for anything concerning their account, including funds owed.

[thatsallfolks]

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@coolectionswrote:

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@emerald40wrote:

Just curious but why is everyone thinking the SIL did something wrong on purpose.  Sometimes people are desperate so they take chances - unfortunate ones.

But do not understand based on what was posted that some think he was in on the fraud or it is a story to get MIL to give them some money. They are family, so why the need to tell her such mishegas. 

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From the story it does not make sense at all. Who is the person who had the watch in which the SIL supposedly sold it for ? Something is not adding up. What do you mean he took a chance out of desperation ? Who would agree to sell a $6,000 item for someone ? Why would anyone agree to list a watch they never saw ? It sounds like they might not even know the person who supposedly had it. Why would anyone hold off for that long to do anything about it ? Someone is not being honest with the OP. Too many unanswered questions.

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It's really not that difficult:

• There is no watch
• Correct, the SIL didn't know the person who wanted him to sell; he saw an ad
• SIL agreed to be the "proxy" for a cut of the sale amount
• People who are desperate for money are the ones most likely to jump at an easy way to earn it
• There are plenty of stories about spouses hiding devastating financial losses, especially when they're the result of a scam. 

This scam isn't as common as the "vehicle for 25% of book value", but people have posted about being hooked by it, sometimes for a lot more than $8,600.

[jpcustomsonline]

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@swenson8781wrote:

I think that SIL needs to take accountability, and file a police report asap.  Once the police report is filed, I'm guessing the police dept can contact Paypal requesting personal info on the account that the $8600 was sent to.  A SSN is required to open a Paypal account, that's a pretty good place to start trying to track someone down IMO.

Who sent the monies to collection? Paypal or eBay? Once the police report is filed, I'd also have SIL contact them, and give them the case/report number to make them aware that they were scammed, and are having the transaction properly investigated.  Hopefully, that will put the collection situation on hold, at least while they investigate further.

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Don't know where you got this idea, but a SSN is NOT required to open a paypal account. There is absolutely NO REASON why ANY real information has to be attached to the scammers paypal account.

[krazzykats]

MONEY MULES

Published on Jul 27, 2017

What is MONEY MULE? What does MONEY MULE mean? MONEY MULE meaning - MONEY MULE definition - MONEY MULE explanation.

Source: Wikipedia.org article:

A money mule, sometimes called a "smurfer," is a person who transfers money acquired illegally (e.g., stolen) in person, through a courier service, or electronically, on behalf of others. Typically, the mule is paid for services with a small part of the money transferred. Money mules are often dupes recruited on-line for what they think is legitimate employment, not aware that the money they are transferring is the product of crime. The money is transferred from the mule's account to the scam operator, typically in another country. Similar techniques are used to transfer illegal merchandise.

Mules recruited online are typically used to transfer the proceeds from online fraud, such as phishing scams, malware scams or scams that operate around auction sites like eBay. After money or merchandise has been stolen, the criminal employs a mule to transfer the money or goods, hiding the criminal's true identity and location from the victim of the crime and the authorities. By using instant payment mechanisms such as Western Union, the mule allows the thief to transform a reversible and traceable transaction into an irreversible and untraceable one.

Money mules are complicit and risk criminal prosecution and long jail sentences. Commonly, they are recruited with job advertisements for "payment processing agents", "money transfer agents", "local processors", and other similar titles; the real benefit to the criminals is not the work carried out by the mule, but that the criminals are distanced from the risky, visible transfer. Some money mules are recruited by an attractive member of the opposite sex. Candidates are asked to accept funds and to forward them, after deducting a relatively small payment for themselves, to a third party, which they can do from home. Legitimate companies use escrow services for this kind of work. Criminals trading in stolen or illegally acquired goods use similar tactics to recruit mules who receive packages and forward them to mail drops not traceable to the criminal.

In 2010, The FBI Cyber Crimes Task Force, composed of Federal, State, and Local law enforcement, charged more than 37 defendants involved in a highly organized money mule scheme, facilitated by the Zeus Financial Trojan. This group of money mules opened several bank accounts, using both real and fake identification, to receive stolen funds from compromised bank accounts, withdraw the stolen money, then wire the stolen funds overseas. These money mules facilitated the theft of over $3 million from victim bank accounts.