Fraud

[jujmc.us.29jzih]

My name is Julie. I've been having trouble finding a place to email this.  My daughter's husband was listing an item for a seller thinking that he could make some additional income.  He listed a watch and did receive a payment so he thought this was legitimate.  The person asked him to use friends and family for payment.  My daughter and her husband found out that this person didn't send the watch and they were turned over to collections for $8600.  My daughter is 22 and needless to say does not have money.  Her husband was mortified that he fell for this and wouldn't let her tell anyone so this has just sat in collections since it happened.  I don't know what to do or if there is anything we can do.  If there is someone that we can contact for help on this please let me know.  This is just going to continue to ruin their credit and we certainly don't have the money to pay it.  I understand this is certainly a horrible lesson but this is so wrong.  If anyone knows who I should contact at Ebay, please let me know.

Thanks

[city*satins]

It's the MOTHER who's here.

It's the MOTHER who is treating it as HER problem.

Adult daughter and adult son-in-law.  Neither of whom has done a single thing to resolve the problem on their own except that now that it's a monstrous (previously huge) problem,  call mom.  

How is that not total mishegas?  

You are a lot harder on people who do a lot less. Why are you cutting so much slack on this case?

[itsjustasprain]

I am finding this tale just a bit incomplete from the daughter and son-in-law's end.

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This is a pretty obvious scam that doesnt even reqiure an Ebay account by the scammer to pull off. Spam enough people with a story about wanting them to sell for him on Ebay and eventually someone will bite. You then have them list a watch for you. You then send them a fake email that looks like its from Paypal (because you got their email address when they fell for your original message) that says that the item sold. You then direct them to send the money on as a Paypal send money transaction that comes from their own funds. 

Only thing that seems a little weird here is the sheer scale of it - if I was a scammer doing this i wouldnt assume that most people are really able to front a $8600 sale. Id aim for something a little lower and then maybe Id have more hits on my scam and Id make it up in volume.

Ebay is not going to help you here. The scammer may be off in Africa someplace. Get documentation of everything thats happened so far just to be sure that you are not the one being played here and see if you have any remote chance of finding the scammer. I would not be too optimisitic. Hate to say that. Keep us posted.

[rainbowcolorz]

@jujmc.us.29jzih wrote: My daughter's husband was listing an item for a seller thinking that he could make some additional income.  He listed a watch and did receive a payment so he thought this was legitimate.  The person asked him to use friends and family for payment.  My daughter and her husband found out that this person didn't send the watch and they were turned over to collections for $8600.

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How was that HUGE sum of money immediately available for withdrawl from PayPal?   I thought that amount would have to be on hold for a certain amount of time.  Unless the seller was a longtime member in excellent standing (although I could be wrong).  

[emerald40]

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@city*satinswrote:

It's the MOTHER who's here.

It's the MOTHER who is treating it as HER problem.

Adult daughter and adult son-in-law.  Neither of whom has done a single thing to resolve the problem on their own except that now that it's a monstrous (previously huge) problem,  call mom.  

How is that not total mishegas?  

You are a lot harder on people who do a lot less. Why are you cutting so much slack on this case?

_________________________________________________________________

Daughter and son in law sound very young.  And maybe a bit naive.

I have 3 adult children and they still come to us for advice or help.

And then it becomes our problem because we worry about our children and when they get into trouble obviously we want to help them.

Just because they told mom, does not mean they are not trying to solve it for themselves.

But mom was the one who found this board and is looking for help.

Like I said I do not know what exactly happened, but asking why others think the SIL is trying to extort money.  Just asking how people got from A to B.

And as far as being hard on people, I have read your posts as well.  Mother Teresa you are not.

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[webwanna]

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@emerald40wrote:

Just curious but why is everyone thinking the SIL did something wrong on purpose.

Sometimes people are desperate so they take chances - unfortunate ones.

But do not understand based on what was posted that some think he was in on the fraud or it is a story to get MIL to give them some money.

They are family, so why the need to tell her such mishegas.

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Yes- this is a scam used on sellers.   I don't doubt that.

The thing that concerns me is I believe the majority of innocent people scammed out of $8600 will file a police report.  My issue is that he has concocted a pretty lame excuse for not going to the police.  That is what makes me think there is something up.  

& what makes me think they are asking for money or about to ask for money is the OP wrote "and we certainly don't have the money to pay it."  So it sounds as though she is feeling a bit of pressure to cover the $8600.  At least she has considered whether it is a possibility for some reason.

Thanks for introducing me to a new word.. mishegas.... had to look it up.

[rainbowcolorz]

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@webwannawrote:

Thanks for introducing me to a new word.. mishegas.... had to look it up.

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My mom used to say .... meshugana

[jujmc.us.29jzih]

Thank you Emerald. They didn't ask me for money. He was just looking for what he thought was an easy way to make money.

[jujmc.us.29jzih]

This was a craigslist ad that he responded to. I remember my daughter telling me last year that he was selling stuff on craigslist for someone. Then I never heard anything after that.

[emerald40]

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@webwannawrote:

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@emerald40wrote:

Just curious but why is everyone thinking the SIL did something wrong on purpose.

Sometimes people are desperate so they take chances - unfortunate ones.

But do not understand based on what was posted that some think he was in on the fraud or it is a story to get MIL to give them some money.

They are family, so why the need to tell her such mishegas.

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Yes- this is a scam used on sellers.   I don't doubt that.

The thing that concerns me is I believe the majority of innocent people scammed out of $8600 will file a police report.  My issue is that he has concocted a pretty lame excuse for not going to the police.  That is what makes me think there is something up.  

& what makes me think they are asking for money or about to ask for money is the OP wrote "and we certainly don't have the money to pay it."  So it sounds as though she is feeling a bit of pressure to cover the $8600.  At least she has considered whether it is a possibility for some reason.

Thanks for introducing me to a new word.. mishegas.... had to look it up.

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Daughter is 22.  SIL might be around the same age.  Mom knows they do not have that kind of money and cannot pay it off.  So a parent's natural inclination is to try and figure out how they can make it right.  If it happened to one of my children I would be offering to help even before they asked.

She said SIL is mortified.  I am sure you have read where people who are taken in a scam are so embarrassed that they do not go to the police.  And it sounds like SIL did what some people do when something like this happens - do nothing and hope it all just goes away.

[webwanna]

My instinct is there is something hinky about this story.  There are too many sets of unusual circumstances.... its a super high ticket item, he's agreed to sell it for somebody he apparently does not know at all, he agreed to send the money via Paypal Friends/Family apparently before he even received notice that the buyer received the item,  must be a somewhat experienced seller to not have that large amount of money placed on hold so he should be aware there are scammers out there,  he is so embarrassed that he fell for a scam that he can't file a police report, ....

Come on.... really?

Often times parents do not see what is obvious to everyone else.  Then, they are shocked when their kid ends up in prison or hooked on drugs. 

Yes, I have heard of people not filing police reports when they should.  That is why I wrote " I believe the majority of innocent people scammed out of $8600 will file a police report."  That percentage goes up when $8600 is a lot of money to you.  Which apparently it is to these folks.

If the SIL is refusing to file a police report then there's no need to contact Ebay.   IMHO, there is no way Ebay would remove this from somebody's credit report, because as far as Ebay knows, the SIL defrauded them of $8600.  The SIL can provide nothing , not even a copy of a police report, to show that he is a victim of a scam.

By the way, this may escalate rather than go away. 

[city*satins]

Daughter and son in law sound very young.  And maybe a bit naive.

Maybe kids grow up a lot slower nowadays.  When I was 22 years old in 1972, I was expected and observed most others of my age to be much more mature and capable of managing their own affairs.  22 didn't used to be considered 'very young'.  It is now and not in a good way, IMO.

Just because they told mom, does not mean they are not trying to solve it for themselves.

According to the opening post, this has been sitting unactioned.  Any 22+ yr old who thinks playing ostrich is going to make a problem of this magnitude somehow disappear and then moves on to "talk to mom" is engaged in magical thinking at best.  If there's an action plan beyond that, it would surprise me very much.  

Mother Teresa you are not.

Given my extremely low opinion of Mother Teresa, namely that she was a fraud and a sadist, comparing me to her and finding me wanting doesn't wound me in the slightest.

[a_c_green]

What does PayPal have to say about the account that received the Friends or Family payment?

[reallynicestamps]

We know (although SIL apparently did not) that F&F payments are not recoverable.

The scammer did know that though.

I wonder about the Hold on new sellers cleared payments too. Don't you American sellers have to include a tracking number to prove the item is sent or preferably received before the money is released to a new seller?

Those are questions.

As to advice, I'm with the majority of posters, SIL has to print out all his communications with the scammer and get his butt down to the police station.

Not all Nigerian princes, overseas troops, widowed Marines, and oceanographers looking to sell Kubota Tractors, are outside the USA.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/12/30/nigerian-prince-email-scammer-louisiana/99...

Go to the police.

[emerald40]

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@city*satinswrote:

Daughter and son in law sound very young.  And maybe a bit naive.

Maybe kids grow up a lot slower nowadays.  When I was 22 years old in 1972, I was expected and observed most others of my age to be much more mature and capable of managing their own affairs.  22 didn't used to be considered 'very young'.  It is now and not in a good way, IMO.

Just because they told mom, does not mean they are not trying to solve it for themselves.

According to the opening post, this has been sitting unactioned.  Any 22+ yr old who thinks playing ostrich is going to make a problem of this magnitude somehow disappear and then moves on to "talk to mom" is engaged in magical thinking at best.  If there's an action plan beyond that, it would surprise me very much.  

Mother Teresa you are not.

Given my extremely low opinion of Mother Teresa, namely that she was a fraud and a sadist, comparing me to her and finding me wanting doesn't wound me in the slightest.

____________________________________________________________

You can thank helicopter parents for children being much less mature then they were in the past.  While my husband and I were protective and our children still come to us for advice, they were allowed to make mistakes, learn from them, and how to clean up after themselves.

Ostrich in the sand, many adults older than him do the same thing.  Not everyone matures to their full level, some are depressed, other were not taught, but it is not heard of for people not to take action hoping it will go away.   Some do not take responsibility or may not know how to go about it.

As far ad Mother Teresa, never heard of what you said about her.  In fact it is very contrary to what I always thought.  Will have to do some research on her to respond further.

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[swenson8781]

I think that SIL needs to take accountability, and file a police report asap.  Once the police report is filed, I'm guessing the police dept can contact Paypal requesting personal info on the account that the $8600 was sent to.  A SSN is required to open a Paypal account, that's a pretty good place to start trying to track someone down IMO.

Who sent the monies to collection? Paypal or eBay? Once the police report is filed, I'd also have SIL contact them, and give them the case/report number to make them aware that they were scammed, and are having the transaction properly investigated.  Hopefully, that will put the collection situation on hold, at least while they investigate further.