Fraud feedback: Solution Proposed

[lte_owner]

Hi Everyone,

My name is Jim

I'm new here to ebay.  On my first day, I posted a few ads, and got three people that wrote me expressing some interest in my offers.  I replied to them right away but got no response in return.  I then began to search for these customers and found little to go on.  One appeared and disappeared, another had no activity for a month from what I could see.  The first two that wrote me came pretty close together and both from St. Louis MO.  I found it all a bit suspicious.  The next step was to look into fake buyers and found that ebay has a history of fake buyers and sellers, which lead me this morning to learn more about fraud here on ebay.

Well, I found that there were posts from some very upset sellers who had been victims of fraud, and learned that ebay and Amazon protects and supports the buyers much better than the sellers.  This imbalance is extremely detrimental to both platforms by destroying the sellers confidence.  This kind of mentality is good for ebay and Amazon by attracting ambitious sellers trying to grow a business, and it offers a free for all for thieves.  The eventual outcome is, both platforms fail, while counting your money, and the thieves walk away with your products and we the sellers are left with our bills and ruined reputations, no?

What would you say to a solution like this?  Keep in mind, this is an open discussion, a brainstorming if you will, process.

What if there was a clearing house as it were between the buyers and sellers.  An escrow account of sorts that would be an intermediary to hold funds for clearing of passage from the buyer to the sellers, and to act as a receiver of goods from the sellers to the buyers.  In my view, this would serve the sellers to both store and ship products and to prove both description and functionality, a quality control center of sorts to protect the sellers and buyers from fraud on both parts, and to ensure payments are made successfully to the sellers for their wares.

Let's begin shall we?  What are your thoughts, I'm intrested to hear responses from both buyers and sellers.

Thank you.

[feefoo72]

"I'm new here to ebay.  On my first day, I posted a few ads, and got three people that wrote me expressing some interest in my offers. I replied to them right away."

Really? How did they write you? What were they asking? Were they making offers, conditions? Why didn't they buy? 

Having no activity for a month or buyers living in the same city does not make a scammer. But they could be. There are certain things they would ask of you to determine that

You, as a new seller with one feedback listing 10 items at around $14,000 makes you a scam magnet. Be prepared because I think you will attract many people who are good at sounding sincere and oh so kind, but are not.

Just because you ask these questions tells me you are not ready or something else is going on (see below).

"The next step was to look into fake buyers and found that ebay has a history of fake buyers and sellers, which lead me this morning to learn more about fraud here on ebay."

That should have been the first step.

You should be selling small dollar things so you learn how to sell, and focus on fraud and scammer warnings from ebay and paypal and these boards. Instead I feel you are rushing blindly in where angels fear to tread!

Have I inspired hope and confidence in you? I hope not.

These boards have attracted many sellers with tales of being scammed in ways that were obvious to others. Problem was, they were gullible, new,  they let greed, sympathy, excitement, dictate their bad decisions, they were lured to sell off-site, they were scammed by fake paypal and ebay emails telling them to ship... 

Here, it is buyer beware, seller beware. If you cannot afford to lose it, sell it locally.

No offense, but I wouldn't even buy from you at this point, even though as a buyer I am much more protected by ebay than you are.

You have been a member since: Dec-04-17, yet you have no seller feedback, no activity as a seller, ever, no feedback given, and one feedback as a buyer. 

Isn't that suspicious too? It could be!

How do I know this account wasn't hacked? You have no track record. I might buy a cd from you, but not a $1500 computer. 

 There is no solution. Buyer beware, seller beware.

[castlemagicmemories]

I understand what you are saying...this doesn't seem to be working.  I apologize if I mis-interpreted your post.  To me, it said that the situation was getting worse because of buyer protection.  I feel that the buyer protection is there because there are so many careless and inaccurate listings, and sellers who fight legitimate SNADs.

My experiences were almost problem free for years.  But that all changed and it seems to get worse, as you know, since you say problems with sketchy sellers are up.  That isn't going to inspire buyer confidence, in spite of the MBG; neither is the every buyer is a scammer attitude and fighting legitimate SNADs. 

Amazon developed their own unique line of products.  They became popular, and drove their success.

But getting rid of the MBG is not going to make the situation here better.  

[ted_200]

I feel that the buyer protection is there because there are so many careless and inaccurate listings, and sellers who fight legitimate SNADs.

Well, that is certainly true.  It may not have been especially to protect buyers as much as protect PayPal (eBay, at that point) from chargebacks filed by those buyers.  But it's true.

I don't know if fighting legitimate SNADs has increased, decreased, or what, but that's been going on all along.  I would think it's decreased since fighting them is mostly a futile exercise now (seller is not in control of refunding), but maybe it hasn't since everything is now a claim (return request) where before most issues got worked out directly between buyer and seller with a partial refund or a new part or an exchange, etc.  And I'm not sure there's a clear and definitive line between "legitimate" and scam (with a lot of grey area involving it's not exactly what I imagined / I'd like to save a few more bucks on this), nor that the line hasn't moved some over the years because of eBay's policies. 

I don't think sketchy sellers have increased much, if at all.  I don't see how it's possible with all the Seller Performance / Defects stuff they've done.  One big flaw from years past they seem to have fixed is the ability of criminal sellers to just get new IDs all the time, so it should be better.  I do know that buyers are no longer very discriminating... old days buyers would avoid anything that even hinted at trouble.   A few bad neg.s and it was difficult for a sketchy seller to sell anything, there were listing fees to not sell, and most would go away (or get a new ID).  Today's buyers will just buy the too good to be true listings, from sellers with dozens/hundreds of bad neg.s, without even thinking, and then just do a Free Return or file MBG-SNAD.   Maybe it just seems worse because of that. 

Regarding the post immediately preceeding yours, the writer there is mostly correct, if not sounding scary as well.  Most buyers would have avoided a newbie seller with high dollar listings (description of OP) in the old days due to the risk posed to them, buyers gravitated to established sellers with proven track records.  He'd have to prove himself by selling many lower dollar items successfully first.  Today, he might well sell stuff, thanks to the MBG.  The risk now is to that seller - even if he's totally above board, described everything perfectly, and performs as a seller in a magnificant way. 

The best retailers gravitate to the best malls, which get the best traffic (Amazon, online).  This used to be the best online flea market / auction.  Turning it into the best mall is going to be difficult. 

[castlemagicmemories]

Yes, you might think fighting legitimate SNADs would have decreased, but since the percentage of problematic transactions due to this has dramatically increased, the fighting has also increased exponentially.  I don't know what your experiences have been, but the thread who link I posted, which was mostly by sellers, showed horrendous customer service, and fighting these situations.  Possibly simply because it is a futile exercise has led to more of abusiveness, hostility, and fighting, in an attempt to cow the buyer and intimidate them into giving up and walking away.  It could also be they resent Ebay for being the final authority.  I'm not saying there is no such thing as false SNADs, or buyers abusing the return process and sending back other than what they received.  But possibly many that are deemed false SNADs are not.  

I'm a buyer so I am giving my perspective as a very active buyer.  I don't file false SNADS, I don't buy to return, I don't retract or cancel.  I do my due diligence, know what I am getting and from whom I am getting it, and pay right away.   While I will agree that there may be a correlation between bad buyers and bad sellers, being that both have proliferated, I am not a bad buyer; but I do know that many buyers don't take responsibility and buy before they know what they are buying and think a retraction, cancellation, or return solves everything.  They don't know or maybe care how disruptive this is.  I am very tolerant, I just want what I ordered in the conditon specified. 

Reading this Board shows many believe that every buyer is a scammer and there are no such thing as legitimate SNADs, and that leads to the hostility and abuse and fighting.  Many threads attest to low or no sales; could that be a factor?  

Yes, most would be very careful in choosing to buy from a new seller, but now many do and the onus is on the new seller to perform and to protect himself.  But many just leap in with both feet with little to no knowledge.  And many buy from them because they don't really do their buyer's due diligence anyway.  

Challenging times.

[sockmonkeydave]

@turfsup09

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@turfsup09 wrote:

A 10 grand air craft engine??? A bit of an extreme example. Any one who would buy a 10 grand air craft engine without inspecting it themselves or hiring someone to inspect it for them probably should not be flying a plane. I have never been on a plane, but to give an example I am more familiar with is buying a car. I would never buy a car sight unseen without at least taking it for a test drive. Using an example of a situation where the item sold should be Local Pickup Only is most likely not what the OP had in mind.

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10 grand is pocket change in aviation, You have never been in a plane.

I have 50 years flying and fixing planes, and teaching others how to do the same.

You are not going to tear an engine apart to check condition.

You are going to examine the paperwork for the engine.

At overhaul every component must be documented.

I have an overhauled engine in my garage, but it was overhauled 20 years ago.

I could sell it as overhauled, but that would be wrong of me.

I have all the paperwork, but I do not know how the parts inside like the humid weather.

( I will take it apart and sell the bits, and make more money that way.)

There are a few crooks in aviation, and more than a few people who should not fly.

But for the most part we are honest.

lol I start everyday on the motors board, where some fools buy cars sight unseen.

most often there is no car, and they sent money to a scammer.

[the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth]

Ted, I sell things people want to collectors. I haven’t sold here lately but back in the day I had the same experience here. When you sell items that are hard to find your buyers are less likely to cause issues.

OTOH I have sold used clothing here and new dresses. Had issues with the new dresses and wrote those off. Selling isn’t perfect. If you sell commodity items you are going to have higher percentage of issues just because of the number of sources buyers have. Sellers need to understand and be prepared for nonpayment and returns. They’re a fact of life.

now buyers returning bricks is fraud. That’s a totally different animal. eBay should be removing those buyers for good.