Fraud feedback: Solution Proposed

[lte_owner]

Hi Everyone,

My name is Jim

I'm new here to ebay.  On my first day, I posted a few ads, and got three people that wrote me expressing some interest in my offers.  I replied to them right away but got no response in return.  I then began to search for these customers and found little to go on.  One appeared and disappeared, another had no activity for a month from what I could see.  The first two that wrote me came pretty close together and both from St. Louis MO.  I found it all a bit suspicious.  The next step was to look into fake buyers and found that ebay has a history of fake buyers and sellers, which lead me this morning to learn more about fraud here on ebay.

Well, I found that there were posts from some very upset sellers who had been victims of fraud, and learned that ebay and Amazon protects and supports the buyers much better than the sellers.  This imbalance is extremely detrimental to both platforms by destroying the sellers confidence.  This kind of mentality is good for ebay and Amazon by attracting ambitious sellers trying to grow a business, and it offers a free for all for thieves.  The eventual outcome is, both platforms fail, while counting your money, and the thieves walk away with your products and we the sellers are left with our bills and ruined reputations, no?

What would you say to a solution like this?  Keep in mind, this is an open discussion, a brainstorming if you will, process.

What if there was a clearing house as it were between the buyers and sellers.  An escrow account of sorts that would be an intermediary to hold funds for clearing of passage from the buyer to the sellers, and to act as a receiver of goods from the sellers to the buyers.  In my view, this would serve the sellers to both store and ship products and to prove both description and functionality, a quality control center of sorts to protect the sellers and buyers from fraud on both parts, and to ensure payments are made successfully to the sellers for their wares.

Let's begin shall we?  What are your thoughts, I'm intrested to hear responses from both buyers and sellers.

Thank you.

[the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth]

It would go back to the way it used to be. Which was manageable back then because the site attracted mainly collectors who needed somewhere to buy and sell. Now that the site attracts mostly commodity buyers and sellers there is nothing to keep people here when the scamming starts. If buyers lose buyer protection there will be no buyers.

[pingpong517]

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@lte_owner wrote:

Hi Everyone,

My name is Jim

I'm new here to ebay.  On my first day, I posted a few ads, and got three people that wrote me expressing some interest in my offers.  I replied to them right away but got no response in return.  I then began to search for these customers and found little to go on.  One appeared and disappeared, another had no activity for a month from what I could see.  The first two that wrote me came pretty close together and both from St. Louis MO.  I found it all a bit suspicious.  The next step was to look into fake buyers and found that ebay has a history of fake buyers and sellers, which lead me this morning to learn more about fraud here on ebay.

Well, I found that there were posts from some very upset sellers who had been victims of fraud, and learned that ebay and Amazon protects and supports the buyers much better than the sellers.  This imbalance is extremely detrimental to both platforms by destroying the sellers confidence.  This kind of mentality is good for ebay and Amazon by attracting ambitious sellers trying to grow a business, and it offers a free for all for thieves.  The eventual outcome is, both platforms fail, while counting your money, and the thieves walk away with your products and we the sellers are left with our bills and ruined reputations, no?

What would you say to a solution like this?  Keep in mind, this is an open discussion, a brainstorming if you will, process.

What if there was a clearing house as it were between the buyers and sellers.  An escrow account of sorts that would be an intermediary to hold funds for clearing of passage from the buyer to the sellers, and to act as a receiver of goods from the sellers to the buyers.  In my view, this would serve the sellers to both store and ship products and to prove both description and functionality, a quality control center of sorts to protect the sellers and buyers from fraud on both parts, and to ensure payments are made successfully to the sellers for their wares.

Let's begin shall we?  What are your thoughts, I'm intrested to hear responses from both buyers and sellers.

Thank you.

---

i think your first sentence says it all. I believe you need some time under your belt to really get what has been happening and what "could" be done.... anything you think...probably and has beed said before....understanding the real ebay and how it is set up/works  will give you a better start point...

frankly you want a model that ebay should and is sorta following...is Amazon...and no they are not perfect and have the issues of selling online..BUT they seem to be doinf something better..although most by losing money on the selling of stuff...BUT distrubution /shipping...refunding and convience for the buyer...it is killing ebay ...as is Walmart , Target, Best Buy...many others..

TRUST from seller and buyers....You can find post now, and past, and inbetween...all with the same "mistrust" from both sides..and who ebay sides with, etc etc,....so before starting a new-old topic...become more than "new" to ebay.

[Anonymous]

What about buyers filing phony SNAD's??

[caninekopz]

I have a B & M Store, several Ebay stores and Amazon. 

My theory is this.

Let the business owner (both buyer and sellers as I know buyers that make a business buyer here) set how they wish to operate thier own store.  

EBAY IS JUST A PLATFORM.  ALL THEY SHOULD DO IS TO FACILITATE THE PROMOTION OF OUR PRODUCTS.

Here is what I mean.  

1.  Ebay does not own anything they sell on here.  Forcibly taking peoples money and giving it to someone else for any reason is theft and by threatening to "out" you from the site is extortion.

2.  This is not the cost of doing buisiness.  You see in my  B & M store my return policy is this.  If you have opened or used the product, NO RETURNS.  Anything over 7 days, NO RETURNS.  No receipt, NO RETURN.  Clearance Items, NO RETURNS.  Smells like smoke or animals, worn or used in any way, NO RETURNS.     No exections, No excuses.  If you do not like my terms then please do not shop here.  I have a huge following, I sell thousands each day in a 10,000 sf shop.  People love us because we do not put up with the bull.  We prosecute for stealing .50 items.  We catch a young person stealing, we tell their parents and have them donate some time or we call and prosecute.  

3.  Like I said, let the sellers set their own policy.  I sell all of my stuff with no returns.  Ebay should flash a huge banner before the buyer pushes the pay button.  It should say, "THIS SELLER DOES NOT TAKE RETURNS.  EBAY WILL TAKE NO FURTHER ACTION ONCE THE PRODUCT IS MARKED AS DELIVERED TO YOUR ADDRESS."  Then Ebay should stand behind the seller (business owner) decision to operate thier store as they see fit.

4.  Ebay should monitor all the businesses in their realm and respect each one as a business and not just a seller.  If there are problem childeren then put them on notice.  If they keep it up then boot them out.  But that has to be a high bar, not just someone complaining because they did not like the way the [seller/buyer] did business, but more so if the [seller/buyer] opereated within thier stated policies of thier business.

5.  Ebay should allow different tiers of returns (which they do, but do not enforce).  Encourage the free returns, promotions, garanteed delivery, what ever Ebay wants to do.  But what ever business model the business wants to choose, Ebay should respect and enforce that.

I could go on about many other things, but this is a real easy thing for Ebay.  Ebay is a platform to get people seen around the world.  If I as a seller want to sell my items for 5.00 and not offer any returns (that is why my price is so low) so that I do not have to hastle with all of the debits and credits to my business, and the regular selling price is 10.00 but those seller take returns and the extra 5.00 is to cover the cost of taking returns, then I as a seller or buyer should be able to make that decision.

Bottom line is to let the business people make the decisions of how they want to run their business.  Ebay should review the business plan submitted and if approved by Ebay, Ebay should support that business to the fullest.  I think confidence would return to Ebay both buyers  and sellers.

Rich 

[the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth]

There's no way for ebay to know who is telling the truth. As long as the seller gets their item back then the shipping could be considered a cost of doing business.

I do believe that Ebay should track bad buyers. Too many disputed returns OR a couple of bad returns and they are permanently removed. 

When the transaction is he said/he said, the buyer is always going to win. Everything goes back to before the contract with the seller carrying the nonrefundable costs. Sorry, somebody has to do it and the professional has a higher burden in the law than the layperson.

[the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth]

Like I said, let the sellers set their own policy.  I sell all of my stuff with no returns.  Ebay should flash a huge banner before the buyer pushes the pay button.  It should say, "THIS SELLER DOES NOT TAKE RETURNS.  EBAY WILL TAKE NO FURTHER ACTION ONCE THE PRODUCT IS MARKED AS DELIVERED TO YOUR ADDRESS."  Then Ebay should stand behind the seller (business owner) decision to operate thier store as they see fit.

OK, so it's caveat emptor and open season on buyers? Scamming sellers will have NO policing? Good luck with that. There will always be scammers. You're giving a get out of jail free card for scamming sellers or scammers who will pretend to be sellers.

In your own store, you are there to deal with customers. Ebay is with neither the buyer nor seller. How do they know who is telling the truth?

This is why we cannot have nice things.

[castlemagicmemories]

This idea has been proposed time and time again, but it would be cost prohibitive and time consuming.  

[jolking-0]

THIS SELLER DOES NOT TAKE RETURNS.  EBAY WILL TAKE NO FURTHER ACTION ONCE THE PRODUCT IS MARKED AS DELIVERED TO YOUR ADDRESS."

To me that says this seller is a scammer so be prepared to get ripped off.

[turfsup09]

A 10 grand air craft engine??? A bit of an extreme example. Any one who would buy a 10 grand air craft engine without inspecting it themselves or hiring someone to inspect it for them probably should not be flying a plane. I have never been on a plane, but to give an example I am more familiar with is buying a car. I would never buy a car sight unseen without at least taking it for a test drive. Using an example of a situation where the item sold should be Local Pickup Only is most likely not what the OP had in mind.

[lewisburggold]

Not saying its going to happen.  The buyers are sending us bricks but thats ok right.  That makes it just fine.  Really?

[lewisburggold]

Yay the sellers take the total loss while the buyers just get away with fraud.  We guessing no scammers have got you yet .

[18704d]

"This is not the cost of doing buisiness.  You see in my  B & M store my return policy is this.  If you have opened or used the product, NO RETURNS.  Anything over 7 days, NO RETURNS.  No receipt, NO RETURN.  Clearance Items, NO RETURNS.  Smells like smoke or animals, worn or used in any way, NO RETURNS.     No exections, No excuses."

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And everything you've said above only works, because it is based on one fact:

Your buyers Did get exactly what they paid for, they got to hold it in their hands before purchase.

Online, no one can guarantee exactly what a seller will send a buyer.

Lynn

[lewisburggold]

But sellers are a dime a dozen so they dont really matter.  See your point.

[caninekopz]

No but if a store or business becomes a problem for Ebay then ebay can cut the ties and not let them sell on this platform.

PERIOD.

Rich 

[the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth]

NOWHERE did I ever say it was ok to rip off sellers. I didn't. You can put words in my mouth all you want but I did not. I said in a battle with no clear fraud, the default goes to the lay person. That's the law.

If you read what I said, I said that Ebay should kick repeated bad buyers off the site. They are not the police. If a seller gets defrauded, the appropriate parties are the police and the courts.