mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
@ersatz_sobriquet wrote:@Anonymous
Joe doesn't know the buyer doesn't have MBG status to open a case. Joe only knows that if he doesn't refund upon return of ANYTHING, he will most likely end up with a closed case "without seller resolution".
Joe is an educated guy. Joe knows the repercussions for not refunding the buyer upon receiving ANYTHING back, in most cases.
So when Joe gets back the reproduction fake instead of what he sold, he would have thought that he can't win fighting the refund, as we have all been well trained by ebay.
Joe deserves to know that MBG will not apply in this particular return request, and if that isn't possible, Joe needs a head up that he could have won a case should one have been opened without the dreaded case closed without resolution defect. At the bare minimum, Joe should be consulted by ebay upon receiving the return, asked if he received his item back in the condition he sent it, and then aided in the case that the buyer returned the reproduction fake as in the pictures the buyer uploaded to the return request. Joe shouldn't be left in the dark fearing the case not ending in his favor in that situation should he have tried to argue his case against a faulty return.
I wouldn't want sellers to refund a faulty return out of fear and in the dark on the case details, would you?
Yes, that is what I've been saying. Maybe not as well, but it has been what I've been trying to say.
@tellmemama wrote:
@ersatz_sobriquet wrote:@Anonymous
Joe doesn't know the buyer doesn't have MBG status to open a case. Joe only knows that if he doesn't refund upon return of ANYTHING, he will most likely end up with a closed case "without seller resolution".
Joe is an educated guy. Joe knows the repercussions for not refunding the buyer upon receiving ANYTHING back, in most cases.
So when Joe gets back the reproduction fake instead of what he sold, he would have thought that he can't win fighting the refund, as we have all been well trained by ebay.
Joe deserves to know that MBG will not apply in this particular return request, and if that isn't possible, Joe needs a head up that he could have won a case should one have been opened without the dreaded case closed without resolution defect. At the bare minimum, Joe should be consulted by ebay upon receiving the return, asked if he received his item back in the condition he sent it, and then aided in the case that the buyer returned the reproduction fake as in the pictures the buyer uploaded to the return request. Joe shouldn't be left in the dark fearing the case not ending in his favor in that situation should he have tried to argue his case against a faulty return.
I wouldn't want sellers to refund a faulty return out of fear and in the dark on the case details, would you?
Joe would have processed the refund upon receipt of the original item sent because it's the right thing to do. MBG or not, it wouldn't be right to keep the returned item and the money. Heck if I take returns for 30 days for any reason, none of this other stuff matters anyway. Item returned = refund. It's just honest business practice.
It's when the buyer started all of this other nonsense with over 38 messages and loading a picture of the reproduction outfit (which I've never even had for sale), that I knew what was coming a mile away. Fortunately she was scared off after I told her USPS would be involved as soon as I got back whatever she sent. If the outfit she purchased from me was indeed anything other than what I described, I'd be showing less money in my PAYPAL account and wearing a ridiculous neg for the next 12 months. Deservedly.
All of us could see she was setting up a faulty return which probably would have worked on a less experienced seller. And that is the real problem. It's just too easy to steal here. Even with all my ducks in a row, had she sent back a used gym sock I would have been forced to refund. No sellers are going to question whether or not a buyer's MBG privileges are valid before refunding because they are too afraid of the defects. Only after the fact could I go the IC3/USPS Mail Fraud/affidavit from the mail carrier/police report route to try and appeal the decision. And even then the outcome would still be iffy at best.
I may have won this one but I'm well aware it was only on a technicality.
I don't think ANYONE was or has suggested that if an item is return that the seller should be able to keep the product and the buyer's money. That wasn't the point at all. And I also don't think it was even a consideration.
I think the point was missed.
I certainly understand what Trinton is saying. Even a buyer that has lost their MBG privileges may have a very valid reason to request a return and they should still be able to do that. I get that and I firmly agree with it. The seller should process that request for a return and refund the buyer when they get the item back. That is absolutely the right thing to do.
BUT when you have a buyer that has lost their MBG privileges file a request for return and are less than honest in the SNAD , ship back something you didn't sell them or in some other way are trying to take advantage of the process and the seller. That is an issue.
Knowing how the return system currently works on Ebay. Most sellers would still process the request for return and refund the buyer when the rock they sent back was received. They do that because the alternative will usually not end well for a seller. In the current system when a seller tries to fight a refund for any reason, the seller will end up forced to refund once the buyer escalates the to a claim and then the seller will also get a defect.
If this was a request for return with a buyer that no longer had MBG privileges they wouldn't be able to escalate the request to a claim. But there is NO WAY for the seller to know that. So they will like choose to refund the buyer for the pleasure of having them return a rock to them rather than the actual product. Ebay has us trained to do this because we currently have a no fault return system. That means there doesn't need to be any fault whatsoever for a buyer to return an item and get a full refund.
Chances are HIGH that this abusive buyer would yet again be rewarded with a refund because the seller can't know that they can't escalate the to a claim.
I am NOT talking about properly filed SNADs. There are lots of perfectly good reasons for a SNAD to get filed. Those should always be process in a timely manner and the buyer taken care of. That isn't what I'm talking about here.
