Ebay does not support sellers

[vonandron]

This is the third time I've sold a mid range (Rtl $298) purse only to have a scam buyer claim the bag isn't new when it clearly is.  The original packing material, dust bag, and tags are attached and there are no signs of wear.  Despite the fact that I clearly state I do not accept returns, the buyer is claiming the bag isn't new and wants to return it.  She (of course) suggested I offer a partial refund to keep the bag and threatened negative feedback.  I advised her to return the purse immediately and refused to partially refund her purchase price (which was 25% of retail).  Now I have to pay the return shipping, so I eat the cost to ship it AND the cost for her to return it and eBay says there's nothing they are willing to do.  I don't know what the deal is with purses.  I've sold clothing on eBay for almost 20 years, but seem to only run into this issue with purses.  I'm so disappointed in the lack of support from eBay.  

[ten_o_nine]

@vonandron 

I am not looking for support, just trying to avoid punishment. lol

[adamcartwright]

@vonandron 

I'm sorry this happened to you. That's a beautiful Rebecca Minkoff bag.

I noticed you posted only six photos with your listing, when eBay allows us 24 photos. (And the two prior handbags you sold had only seven and eight photos posted.)

That baffles me. It would take only a minute or two more to fully document the condition of your listings with additional photos.

Many here argue that a no returns policy leads to fraudulent INAD claims.  (It may for some, but it hasn't for me.)

But I think one additional reason for a false INAD may be that the item's condition is not fully documented, which makes it easier for a buyer to justify a disagreement with the condition of the bag.

Just my 2 cents.

[mam98031]

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@vonandron wrote:

No!  You and one other responder were extremely helpful and on point regarding this central issue of my post.  I guess I was wondering if this is a "purse" category thing.  Anyway, thanks again.  I sincerely appreciate you sharing your experience and I have changed my listings to accept returns at the buyer's expense.  As for purses - I'll probably only list them on the other site as I don't have to deal with stuff like this since they don't allow returns.  Thanks again.

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I think you are smart to make that chance.  However keep in mind that a 30 day return policy with buyer pays shipping actually means that if the buyer properly files a Buyer Remorse return, then they will need to pay the return shipping and when you refund them if the listing they purchased from had separately stated shipping [not free shipping], when you refund the buyer you can withhold the original shipping.

But if a buyer files an INAD, it doesn't matter what return policy a seller may have, the seller pays return shipping.

[mam98031]

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@fbusoni wrote:

I will change my listings to accepting returns at the buyer's cost. 

That's the same as not accepting returns.

What you are telling the buyer is, "I'm going to make returning this purse as difficult as possible for you."

And you will continue to face the same problems, over and over and over again.

If you offer to pay for returns, you will not get any.

In fact, if you ALSO ship in 24 hours, eBay may invite you to list your items as Top Rated Plus.

I've been doing that for some years now and the benefits that eBay confers upon me as a seller are significant -- search results at the top of the page, free advertising on Google, and in general a more lucrative selling experience.

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No it isn't.  A 30 day return policy with buyer pays shipping is completely acceptable to buyers.  There isn't a darn thing difficult about the process, no matter what the seller's return policy is.  Filing a Request for return on Ebay is a very simple process, regardless of the return policy of the seller.

[mam98031]

@fbusoni   and  @vonandron 

The return policies options are as follows.

1. No Returns
2. 30 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
3. 60 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
4. 30 day returns w/ seller pays shipping, AKA Free Returns
5. 60 day returns w/ seller pays shipping. AKA Free Returns
6. 14 Day returns in certain categories

With option number 1, No Returns the seller can completely deny taking a return for a Buyer's Remorse Return Request.  Or if they want to, they can accept the return and have the buyer pay the return shipping.  If the seller so chooses, they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer.

On options 2 & 3 the buyer is responsible for the return shipping on a Buyer's Remorse Return.  Plus, if the seller so chooses, they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer. As of October 1st 2019, sellers that are TRS have some additional protections as well as they can issue partial refunds if they use options 4 or 5 as their return policy.

On options 4 & 5 above, they are also known as Free Returns.  If a seller that has either of those policies, they will pay the return shipping even on a buyer's remorse return.  A seller can withhold the original shipping value from the refund if the shipping was separately stated in the listing [not free shipping].  Also, Seller’s offering options 4 or 5 have the ability to do partial refunds in certain cases if the item arrives back damaged, missing something or in a condition less than what it was sent to the buyer in, see the policy for more details, the link is below.  In the cases where a deduction in the refund is taken due to damage or other authorized reasons for a partial refund, Ebay will protect the seller from negative or neutral feedback.

ALL OPTIONS [1, 2, 3, 4 and 5] are required to process SNAD claims without exception.  Even if they are improperly filed and should have been a Buyer’s Remorse claim.

All return policies by sellers must meet or exceed what is stated in the Money Back Guarantee Policy!

14 day return policies are allowed in certain categories: Jewelry & Watches, Collectibles & Art, Cameras & Photo and Medical, Mobility & Disability Equipment.

For those with Free Return and/or TRS members with 30 day return policies, there are some added protection benefits, one of which is the ability to do a discounted refund under certain conditions.

[chapeau-noir]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@fbusoni wrote:

I will change my listings to accepting returns at the buyer's cost. 

That's the same as not accepting returns.

What you are telling the buyer is, "I'm going to make returning this purse as difficult as possible for you."

And you will continue to face the same problems, over and over and over again.

If you offer to pay for returns, you will not get any.

In fact, if you ALSO ship in 24 hours, eBay may invite you to list your items as Top Rated Plus.

I've been doing that for some years now and the benefits that eBay confers upon me as a seller are significant -- search results at the top of the page, free advertising on Google, and in general a more lucrative selling experience.

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No it isn't.  A 30 day return policy with buyer pays shipping is completely acceptable to buyers.  There isn't a darn thing difficult about the process, no matter what the seller's return policy is.  Filing a Request for return on Ebay is a very simple process, regardless of the return policy of the seller.

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And we don't have to be "invited" to simply list something with 24-hour shipping and "free" returns, and no extra benefits are "conferred" - I've tried both (and Google gives nothing for free).

ETA: It all depends on the market one sells in, and their own business style.

[fbusoni]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@fbusoni wrote:

I will change my listings to accepting returns at the buyer's cost. 

That's the same as not accepting returns.

What you are telling the buyer is, "I'm going to make returning this purse as difficult as possible for you."

---

No it isn't.  A 30 day return policy with buyer pays shipping is completely acceptable to buyers.  There isn't a darn thing difficult about the process, no matter what the seller's return policy is.  Filing a Request for return on Ebay is a very simple process, regardless of the return policy of the seller.

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Maybe "acceptable to your buyers" is what you mean.  

"Filing a request for return on eBay is a very simple process."  

Absolutely!  

It's the rest of the process that some 72% of American consumers (including yours truly) object to (see image below and visit the links), and that is why they go to the other big place.  

I never anticipate having a reason to make a return, but if I do, these days I'd rather drop it off at Kohl's at the other party's expense.   Heck, I don't even have to wrap the item up and put it in a box if I don't want to.  

Whether you like it or not, the internet and button clicks have made us all think we are entitled to be treated like royalty.   (See the National Retail Federation .pdf linked in the image below; study was financed by PayPal but findings seem to comport with most other data.)

 

I suppose one could argue that eBay's audience is sufficiently different from Amazon's and that this is why eBay clings to a return policy replete with all manner of rules, exceptions, stipulations, provisos and loopholes.  

Who has time for all that?  "Too Long Don't Read" comes to mind.

On a separate but related note:   I have not done the math, because I do not get returns.  But I wonder: 

If an eBay buyer sends me $10 for shipping, and then wants me to pay for a return, am I not effectively  using the $10 he / she paid me in the first place to pay for the return?  

(Please forgive me if I am missing something glaringly obvious there.)

[fbusoni]

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@chapeau-noir wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@fbusoni wrote:

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And we don't have to be "invited" to simply list something with 24-hour shipping and "free" returns, and no extra benefits are "conferred" - I've tried both (and Google gives nothing for free).

ETA: It all depends on the market one sells in, and their own business style.

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I need to remember that I must make clear that these are my personal experiences.  

I had for many years offered same day / 24 hour shipping.

One day I received an email from eBay telling me that I could participate in a program that conferred benefits (which are ostensibly outlined here) if I added free returns to all my listings.  

I did, and in the years since, my listings have enjoyed enhanced exposure, which seems to increase as the months go by.

Google gives nothing for free, that is correct.  But eBay does, to me.

eBay promotes my listing externally in some fashion (I do not pay for PLs).  I say this because within a few days of listing an item, it is usually found on Google, along with similar items from other sellers, often next to a small box with my store name and one of those gold badge icons that eBay sometimes displays.  

Once in a while I get a message from a buyer (whose sole positive feedback is from me) who says something like, "I did an internet search for this item... I've been looking for this for a long time and it never occurred to me to look on eBay."   (Not proof, but certainly circumstantial evidence, that they found said item on Google and that buyer may / may be a first time eBayer). 

My listings also appear at the top of the eBay search queue, usually within 15 minutes of their initial publication.    I've noticed that the position of my listings change periodically to give others the same opportunity.  But my listings are always in the top 10 to 20.  

Coincidence?  I think not.  

As I noted in a verbose post several weeks ago, I believe that eBay looks not only at formal seller metrics, but at other dimensions of seller behavior -- how we comport ourselves in messages to buyers, respond to feedback, whether we have fulfilled all the suggested requirements eBay has for setting up a store (including a video).

Also, and perhaps most importantly, the extent to which we accurately fill out as many fields as possible when we are listing an item.  I made literally thousands of corrections to the Amazon catalog when I sold there -- back in the old days when it was easy to make said corrections -- and used to get the buy box on a fairly regular basis.

Anyway, all these seemingly insignificant data points are "for eBay use only."   

I have no proof, only the testimony of an Amazon exec friend who told me a long time ago that this sort of data collection is pretty standard in the industry.

It makes sense.   "Feeding the beast" has worked well for me. 

[fbusoni]

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@mam98031 wrote:

@fbusoni   and  @vonandron 

The return policies options are as follows....

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That brick wall of gobbledygook gives new meaning to the acronym "TLDR."

If I were a buyer confronting that mess, I'd simply go elsewhere.

[mam98031]

I don't think you understand what a 30 day return policy with buyer pays shipping means.  I did post it a couple of posts back, but I'll explain it again.

This policy means that IF a buyer files a proper Buyer's Remorse return [which most do not], then the buyer pays for return shipping and if the seller has separately stated shipping [not free shipping] on the listing the buyer purchased from, then when the item comes back and the seller refunds, they can withhold the original shipping.

On this return policy and ALL other return policies, even if the seller says No Returns, the SELLER pays shipping on ALL INADs.

[mam98031]

"One day I received an email from eBay telling me that I could participate in a program that conferred benefits (which are ostensibly outlined here) if I added free returns to all my listings.  I did, and in the years since, my listings have enjoyed enhanced exposure, which seems to increase as the months go by. "

What you failed to note is that is if the seller qualifies for TRS.  The ONLY benefit for sellers that offer one day handling and 30+ day free returns each listing they have those terms on get the TRS discount of 10% on their FVFs and the TRS badge on the listing.  All other benefits, including a search boost is because they the seller is TRS.

You are absolutely correct, we get a lot of buyers coming to Ebay through a Google search and have for many years.  Being TRS is not a requirement for this to happen.

"I made literally thousands of corrections to the Amazon catalog when I sold there -- back in the old days when it was easy to make said corrections -- and used to get the buy box on a fairly regular basis."

Not sure what that has to do with the conversation at hand, but it is likely that many sellers on Amazon have done that too.  I know I have.  Sometimes they use the correction and sometimes they don't.  

[mam98031]

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@fbusoni wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

@fbusoni   and  @vonandron 

The return policies options are as follows....

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That brick wall of gobbledygook gives new meaning to the acronym "TLDR."

If I were a buyer confronting that mess, I'd simply go elsewhere.

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Yet knowing how it actually works has help many members and it would help you too since you also have some misunderstandings.

What has a buyer have to do with what I posted.  Buyers don't see all that information unless they go in search of it.  

You may dismiss the information, others will learn from it.  It was posted for those that want to learn.