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EBay aids in the unlawful creation of Fraudulent unauthorized payment claims at sellers.

33 days after the completion of a commercial sales transaction of a non-returnable sales item,(a bicycle frame) on Ebay's Internet based Marketplace, a registered buyer/user/member of Ebay, and in violation of the stated policies, terms and conditions of said marketplace, made a fraudulent payment dispute with an unknown financial institution. This fraudulent payment dispute was only initiated by the seller because he had been denied an attempt to return the bicycle well past the 30 day window in a similarly fraudulent Money back guarantee claim. I believe the buyer damaged the bicycle frame during the 33 days he possessed it, and thus attempted to manipulate Ebay's anti-seller oriented policies, and force the reversal of the sales transaction and unlawfully obtain a return of the funds he willingly paid for the bicycle. The buyer "pinkman" disingenuously claimed in both instances that my item was not as described. My sale listing had no less than 15 high resolution photos of the exact item he recieved. In fact the buyer even submitted proof of the authenticity of my listing photos, by sending his own photo (33 days later) of minor surface scratches on the bike frame to validate his erroneous claim. His photo displays the exact matching serial number on the frame that is also visible in my original listing photos. Further proving my listing and pics were of the exact item he recieved. The original listing stated that the item was in like new condition, and had previously been assembled and used as a display model, and then disassembled and put into it's packaging. It included all the original parts, manuals, and the unused, unfilled warranty card as well. The item was never listed as being unopened and unused new condition, and the price reflected the condition, being about 20% of the retail sale price. The buyer absolutely knew this was the condition, and the item he received was absolutely as described and photographed in my listing. The buyer lied to try and return an item after 30 days, that I presume he likely damaged himself!! Buyer even wrote in the original return claim that the frame "had a few more scratches than he had anticipated." Meaning that he had anticipated the bike being in less than perfect condition (exactly as it was described and photographed in listing). Buyer had been supplied with numerous listing photos to view before deciding to willingly buy a highly discounted bicycle frame, as is, with no returns accepted. The buyer had the frame for over 30 days and did NOT send a single message to me asking about the condition of the frame, or stating that it was not the frame he bought. Then 33 days later, and likely after he caused the damages, the buyer filed a fraud return claim through eBay and still never messaged me about the listing not being accurate, because obviously his ploy would not have worked on the person he bought it from. Now comes the fraud payment dispute, one in which eBay forces sellers to use them as a legal representative, and denies sellers actual access to the financial institution charging back, while effectively removing the sellers right to due process or chance to defend against the fraud. Instead ebay allows a short statement to be submitted, and allows the MB/ file size limited uploading of proof, which by today's high megapixel cameras, amounts to about 1 photo!! And the outcome is then decided, with no appeal available from Ebay, by none other than the buyers financial partner. Thus ebay is quite clearly in the business of helping malicious buyers defrauding sellers of their money and goods. The fact that a denied return past 30 days is denied, and a minute laters subsequent payment dispute is shoved down a sellers throat, when any other merchant is not liable for chargebacks from most all card purchases, and are offered open lines of communication with the investigating creditor is unacceptable, and a FTC and a consumer rights violation, as the seller is Ebay's consumer, not the buyer. The seller is who pays ebay for the service of using the marketplace, and is actually the consumer of the service. All while eBay colludes with buyers to defraud it's consumers of their finances, while not adequately providing and uniformly performing the services it charges sellers. Against Ebay policy and in violation of the lawful agreement between Ebay and I, under UCC 1-203, 1-205, 1-206, & 1-209 I have received no seller protections against this malicious buyer, Ebay has knowingly allowed fraudulent claims to be filed against me, and aided in the extortion of monies from it's members. All monies from the sale, shipping, as well as the shipping cost buyer paid to return an item that he damaged, Ebay has deemed no longer mine to possess and has attempted to perform unauthorized, (as they are based in fraud, and thus not the same as drafts agreed upon for valid debts owed) ACH charges to my bank account. In addition Ebay has restricted my account, and severely hindered my livelihood, for no wrong doing on my part, but as a result of the fraud it is now coroborating against me. The actions ebay has taken and allowed to transpire are unlawful, and completely in violation of the Uniform Commercial Code, and of the written policies established in Ebay's terms and agreements of users. As the payment manager for my commercial transactions, and fee based contractor / merchant provider, ebay has failed to perform it's services as promised, and has taken an unlawful stance, aiding with the criminal actions of a member of it's marketplace. eBay has also included a $20 charge for itself added to these fraud based charges, as well as a percentage based fee in an amount it has also attempted to extort on the basis of fraud. eBay deems this fraud charge a final value earned by the seller fee, and even though ebay has deemed that the sale was not valid and payment never authorized by the buyer, (all fraud claims). That fraud sale is the basis for the final value fee, and in fact the value I once had gained via the marketplace is now a negative amount as I have paid out of pocket for shipping twice, thus a final value no longer exists, and has been fraudulently reversed, through the perjury and false claims made by the buyer, with the help of eBay, and the neglect it has performed in enforcing its own policies. eBay has also been derelict in fulfilling it's duties as a financial manager paid by it's sellers, providing ineffective options of recourse in these claim proceedings, and incompetently letting a fraud dispute occur and be validated as accurate under the authority of some biased, financial company with no real legal standing in any court, anywhere. I affirm in writing that I dispute any and all debts claimed by Ebay to be owed by me, as Ebay has knowingly allowed fraudulent claims to create those debts, and has failed to perform the services any other fee based charges it purports to be owed. -Without prejudice, : Justin Robertson. UCC 1-203, 205-6, 209.

Message 1 of 16
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15 REPLIES 15

Re: EBay aids in the unlawful creation of Fraudulent unauthorized payment claims at sellers.

It is very hard to read a wall of text.  Paragraphs and spaces between paragraphs make it so much easier to read.  I'm sure you have some great things to say, but many won't even try to read that the way it is posted.  I mean absolutely no disrespect.  It is just very hard on the eyes for many.


mam98031  •  Volunteer Community Member  •  Buyer/Seller since 1999
Message 2 of 16
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Re: EBay aids in the unlawful creation of Fraudulent unauthorized payment claims at sellers.

I got as far as the 4th line and that's all I needed. 

 

There is NO fraud here.

 

That is a 'Chargeback'; created by the buyers credit card company and MUST be allowed, upwards of 180 days, to do this to ANY entity that excepts their credit card (Visa/MC/AMEX etc.) and is done on ANY WEBSITE that takes Electronic Payments. 

 

Even your own, private website, is subject to these 'chargebacks'. 

 

Whether they are won or not, it up to the Bank that issued the Chargeback and Credit Card and is NOT up to you, eBay or anyone else. 

 

Message 3 of 16
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Re: EBay aids in the unlawful creation of Fraudulent unauthorized payment claims at sellers.

Hey lawyery guy, since you are so good with the law, go read the terms of service contract you personally and and knowingly signed in order to gain permission to sell on ebay.

Message 4 of 16
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Re: EBay aids in the unlawful creation of Fraudulent unauthorized payment claims at sellers.


@playwithitagaintoys wrote:

Hey lawyery guy, since you are so good with the law, go read the terms of service contract you personally and and knowingly signed in order to gain permission to sell on ebay.


What would be the point.  @stainlessenginecovers is absolutely correct about Chargebacks.  What is it that you feel is incorrect?


mam98031  •  Volunteer Community Member  •  Buyer/Seller since 1999
Message 5 of 16
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Re: EBay aids in the unlawful creation of Fraudulent unauthorized payment claims at sellers.

You need to tweak your Open AI parameters to allow paragraphs...

 

Message 6 of 16
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Re: EBay aids in the unlawful creation of Fraudulent unauthorized payment claims at sellers.


  • @playwithitagaintoys wrote:

    Hey lawyery guy, since you are so good with the law, go read the terms of service contract you personally and and knowingly signed in order to gain permission to sell on ebay.



    No problem; I highlighted the portion pertaining that information in RED as well as the term 'Chargeback' in Blue, for your easy reading pleasure. As noted in the "Payment Terms of Use" (which is noted in blue for you to click on when reading the 'Terms of Service' (Section 4)

 

  • Comply with all, and not cause a third party to violate any, applicable laws, regulations, rules, and terms and conditions in connection with your use of the eBay Services. You understand that some third parties (such as banks, credit and debit card issuers, credit and debit card networks, and payments services providers) may have their own terms and conditions for the payment or settlement methods you or buyers choose to use in connection with payments that we manage, such as terms and conditions that relate to the settlement of funds, chargebacks, prohibited items, and overdrafts. Failure to abide by third-party terms and conditions may result in fees assessed to you, delays in your receipt of funds, or other actions taken by such third parties. You agree that we have no control over, or responsibility or liability for, such fees, delays, or actions.
Message 7 of 16
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Re: EBay aids in the unlawful creation of Fraudulent unauthorized payment claims at sellers.


@peddle2mtl wrote:

I believe the buyer damaged the bicycle frame during the 33 days he possessed it,


Good God, man, paragraphs are your friend. Proofreading as well although we can at least see that you were not using ChatGPT for all that.

 

Weeding through all that suggests that you did indeed get your bike frame back as you mention having to pay twice for the shipping. That is how a Not As Described dispute would have worked anyway if the buyer had filed sooner and if you wanted to get the item back before refunding. If the buyer files a chargeback with his card provider instead then your options are a lot more limited as you have discovered.

 

This is a member-to-member forum so your posting a notice here is not going to have any legal benefit for you. You might be able to get a courtesy credit of your expenses by talking to Customer Service but that is their option and not yours. I see you are also no longer a registered user so good luck.

Message 8 of 16
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Re: EBay aids in the unlawful creation of Fraudulent unauthorized payment claims at sellers.

I'm no lawyer, or anything, but couldn't saying things like ebay is committing, or is an accessory to fraud be considered libelous? They have a lot of lawyers, I'd be a heck of a lot more careful about the words I chose than some people who come to these forums. 

Message 9 of 16
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Re: EBay aids in the unlawful creation of Fraudulent unauthorized payment claims at sellers.

<< 33 days after the completion of a ransaction of a non-returnable sales item,(a bicycle frame) on Ebay, a registered buyer...made a payment dispute. This payment dispute was only initiated by the seller [do you mean buyer?] because he had been denied an attempt to return the bicycle well past the 30 day window. I believe the buyer damaged the bicycle frame during the 33 days he possessed it, and thus attempted to manipulate Ebay's anti-seller oriented policies, and force the reversal of the sales transaction and unlawfully obtain a return of the funds he willingly paid for the bicycle.  [force a return].  The buyer claimed in both instances that my item was not as described. In fact the buyer even submitted proof of the authenticity of my listing photos, by sending his own photo (33 days later) of minor surface scratches on the bike frame. His photo displays the exact matching serial number on the frame that is also visible in my original listing photos.

 

The item was never listed as being unopened and unused new condition, and the price reflected the condition. The buyer absolutely knew this was the condition, and the item he received was absolutely as described and photographed in my listing.  Buyer even wrote in the original return claim that the frame "had a few more scratches than he had anticipated." Meaning that he had anticipated the bike being in less than perfect condition (exactly as it was described and photographed in listing). 

 

Now comes the fraud payment dispute.  ebay allows a short statement to be submitted, and allows the MB/ file size limited uploading of proof...And the outcome is then decided by none other than the buyers financial partner [did you meant the credit card company?].

 

In addition Ebay has restricted my account, and severely hindered my livelihood, for no wrong doing on my part.  >>

 

Is that a pretty good summary?

 

 


“The illegal we do immediately, the unconstitutional takes a little longer.” - Henry Kissinger

"Wherever law ends, tyranny begins" -John Locke
Message 10 of 16
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Re: EBay aids in the unlawful creation of Fraudulent unauthorized payment claims at sellers.

Once a buyer goes to their payment source, Ebay has nothing to do with the outcome.

For Ebay to accept credit cards, they have to go by their rules.

As you've found out, no returns don't mean no refunds.

Have a great day.
Message 11 of 16
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Re: EBay aids in the unlawful creation of Fraudulent unauthorized payment claims at sellers.

You can avoid chargebacks by doing only Local Pickup with Cash option (Though eBay forces you to accept Managed Payments in order to do so).

 

Perhaps you could just increase your prices really high and put in the description that you will offer a massive discount if they pay with cash.

 

For all other options, you will have to accept the fact that chargebacks are a thing, and can't be stopped by eBay. Just because eBay has a 30-day policy, doesn't mean it stops the buyer protections from Visa and other financial institutions that are longer in duration.

Message 12 of 16
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Re: EBay aids in the unlawful creation of Fraudulent unauthorized payment claims at sellers.

     A couple of things. First eBay stood by it's own policies when they would not allow the buyer to return the item after the 30 day window. EBay does offer some seller protections in the event of a chargeback but they are very limited. 

 

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/payment-dispute-seller-protections?id=5293 

 

     Since you disputed the chargeback and lost the $20 you were charged was charged by the CC company not eBay. As for the chargeback itself as others mentioned that is pretty much out of eBay's control with regards to the decision. I do agree however that eBay could do more to help stem the friendly fraud that takes place from both regular eBay claims as well as chargebacks. 

     As for the CC companies decision they are making their decision under, and within, the current federal laws they are required to operate under. Most notably the Fair Credit Billing Act of 1974. CC companies hate chargebacks as much as the seller does as it is detrimental to their bottom line since it takes time and resources to handle the chargebacks.

     Unfortunately under the provisions of those same laws the CC company is only required to look at the financial aspects of the chargeback and they are not required to worry about the logistics, aka making the buyer return the item. The CC is not the one taking your money they recover their funds through eBay and you are correct that eBay subsequently recovers those funds from the buyer, in most cases. 

Message 13 of 16
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Re: EBay aids in the unlawful creation of Fraudulent unauthorized payment claims at sellers.


@dqdistribution wrote:

You can avoid chargebacks by doing only Local Pickup with Cash option (Though eBay forces you to accept Managed Payments in order to do so).

 

Perhaps you could just increase your prices really high and put in the description that you will offer a massive discount if they pay with cash.

 

For all other options, you will have to accept the fact that chargebacks are a thing, and can't be stopped by eBay. Just because eBay has a 30-day policy, doesn't mean it stops the buyer protections from Visa and other financial institutions that are longer in duration.


You can avoid chargebacks by having a yard sale too; but having 300 people vs 100,000,000 pair of eyeballs on our 'item for sale' is the difference between 

 

A tuna sandwich on a paper plate and 

 

50,000 nights of Filet Mignon and Lobster. 

Message 14 of 16
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Re: EBay aids in the unlawful creation of Fraudulent unauthorized payment claims at sellers.

Lol, it was merely an alternative and not meant to be a good one. 

 

My post was more of a way of saying you gotta just accept chargebacks are a thing. 😄

 

But now I'm actually hungry.... Thanks for that.

Message 15 of 16
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