EBAY OFFERS ZERO SELLER PROTECTION!

[buystopnet]

 I recently sold a Brand New item and received a return request from the Buyer claiming that it was not working and requested a refund.    

The Buyer assured me that the item's condition was the same (Brand New) as I had shipped it but it simply wasn't working so I of course accepted the return.  However, when I got the item back I found that it worked perfectly but it was obviously altered and damaged to the point that I will not be able to relist it.

I immediately took a series of photos showing proof that it works and also showing the altered/damaged condition in comparison to the original listing photos for reference.    

Therefore, prior to issuing the refund I decided to give Ebay CS a call to see if they would help prevent me from having to issue a refund for an item that 1) DOES WORK and 2) WAS DAMAGED by the Buyer and I cannot relist.

I have been selling on Ebay for over 16 years and I rarely contact CS to have them step in, but thought if there was ever a time to do it, that was it. I was confident that based on my excellent selling record and documented proof that they would rule in my favor or at a minimum cover the refund to the Buyer so I didn't have to take the hit (item sold for just under $150).

I was on the phone for nearly an hour, talked to 3 tiers of CS reps explaining the situation and submitted 8 photos as proof showing the item did indeed work properly but was returned altered/damaged by the Buyer and therefore I could not relist it. So, the final CS rep I spoke with was completely sympathetic to the situation and said she would get everything entered and they would provide a ruling within approx 48 hours.

Great right? Well, I should have known that this is Ebay and they don't care about any of that. A few hours later I received a message stating that they had ruled in the Buyer's favor and automatically released the funds on hold to them!

Now I am out the sale price of the item, the original shipping cost, the return shipping cost & I have an item that I cannot relist!

Bottom line: Ebay offers ZERO Seller Protection and I feel as though they had already decided to rule in favor of the Buyer the moment that I hung up the phone with CS! Complete waste of time and a slap in my Top-Rated Seller face!

[sunking1]

free bay would expect the seller to send the other 50% to the crook. Just to enhance the experience! I am at a loss as to why so many continue to play this stupid game called selling on ebay. Now the all great and wonderful ..bay just takes "your" money from "your" account and sends it to the scammers. Yeh, that's the business I want to be in!!

[sharf6060]

Yeah they let 2 buyers break my items and return for full refunds, but when I actually get a item that doesn't work, Ebay and Paypal both deny me my money back guarantee.  I don't see how others are able to break my stuff but yet I have to pay for it.  I lost $599 bucks and 189 and had to pay for $304 for a broken item.   Over a $1k I lost I might as well just not even sell anything it would be cheaper.

[max-list]

So how does this work exactly. Buyer opens not as described, you accept and send return label. When you receive the item just refund them 50% and don't talk to Ebay or buyer? Ebay puts a hold on that money don't they? For sure buyer will complain because they only got 1/2 their money. Ebay just tells them that's all they'll get? I've heard Ebay auto refunds the buyer when it shows returned.
I'm a little confused.

[spreadlovelikefire]

Seller decides to refund 50% because they received the item back in different condition than sent.  The return stays open for another 14 days or so.  During that time the buyer can call in to eBay and request the other 50% of the money from eBay.  Ebay refunds them with no cost to the seller, the other half.  It's a win/win for the buyer who scams.  Ebay for sure tracks these but still, they are doubling down on scamming behavior.  It doesn't matter if the sellers, like myself, has been selling for 16 years and is top rated plus.  If a buyer who just sets up an account, opens an item not as described return, then send you a box of rocks.  The seller is required to refund at least 50% for the box of rocks.  Then the scammer can call eBay and get the other half from eBay who is definitely rewarding the scammer.  Instead of using common sense and standing behind a long time seller who has a great reputation with them for over a decade.  They put their money behind an obvious scammer or someone who is not being honest.  Boggles my mind.  This behavior will continue because they are being rewarded to do so.  

[max-list]

Thanks for explaining that. I had no idea Ebay refunds them also. I agree with you about them not backing up long time sellers, or at least listen to them and look at the proof they have. It's ridiculous. Have you ever returned a partial?

I'm top rated and have 30 day returns. I understand the 50%, but not the steps to take. I have read the policy several times, but it just says partial refund them and don't get Ebay involved. A few years ago Ebay refunded them the same day the tracking said it was returned to me.

When I see it's damaged then what? I can't contact Ebay.... just send the buyer the money myself?

Do I accept the item not described (I don't know how it's worded) and the case stays open for 2 weeks? Or do I not accept it and just send the return label? I'm afraid if I accept the return, Ebay will auto refund their money. What if they don't send it back? And if Ebay just sent my money to my bank I won't have enough with them to cover the 50% return, I can't ask Ebay to return the money to them or it gets them involved.

When they say don't get Ebay involved, I know that means don't contest or appeal the case, but can I contact them to ask for advice on what I can do next?

Maybe these are dumb questions but I sell some expensive items and I don't want to mess up the way to do it. Thanks for your help.

[spreadlovelikefire]

Let me try and answer these to the best of my ability.  So anytime you get a return, no matter the reason, you need to answer it.  If you do nothing then eBay will eventually refund the customer and let them keep the item.  So here is how I do it.  I have free returns, you have 30 day returns buyer pays.  If you get an item not as described open, send them a label for return.  Wait for the item to come back.  Inspect it.  If it was altered by them, if they removed any of the item, if the item is totally fine and they lied about it not being described to get out of paying shipping, you can deduct up to 50% at this point.  When you do that, the return will semi-close out.  So you won't be able to do anything after this point if you choose to refund the 50%.  It will stay open for like 2-weeks.  During that time the buyer  can call eBay and ask them to refund the other half of their money.  Ebay usually does this to keep the peace.  But this doesn't affect you at all.  You will know this happens because eBay will move it from the returns section to a case in the resolution center.  But it won't stay open long.  I've done this a couple of times over the last few years and this is how it played out every time.

Also, lets say your buyer opens a return for any reason.  But the item is not worth shipping back.  I had someone order a bunch of chocolate from me.  They decided to open a return 25 days after receiving it as "ordered by mistake".  It was sent with ice packs, it's summer.  There is no way I'd end up getting it back not melted, nor could I resell something like that as I didn't know where it was this entire time.  So I refunded half.  This one upset me because essentially I had to refund them half and they got to keep it.  Buyers like that play the system 100%.  They never called in to eBay and my guess is because they are already on their radar for return abuse.  

When they say "don't get eBay involved", what they mean is don't let eBay decide the outcome of a case for you.  This means you need to either give them a full refund and keep the item, send them a label to return the item (item not as described), give them a partial refund if it is within the moral guidelines you set within (I don't know how else to say this as technically you are suppose to always have them return the item but I wasn't going to pay $30 to receive a bunch of melted chocolate back that can't be resold).

If you accept a return (you need to always to do this), eBay will not auto refund them.  The item will be tracked in the return per the label you upload or they upload.  If you do not receive the item back then eBay will close the return in your favor after several weeks.  I'm not sure why eBay gives sellers options of not accepting a return that is within 30 days.  It's a trap to say the least.  It looks like you have a choice but it's really saying "eBay can refund them with my money and let them keep the item while also giving me a defect on my account".  So always, I repeat, ALWAYS, respond to a return.  Never let eBay make a decision on it.  The only time eBay can make a decision on it is when you do the 50% refund.  In which case you are protected and eBay will refund the buyer on their behalf.  

[katzrul15]

And typically the other 50% goes to the Buyer as a courtesy refund from e-Bay if the Buyer appeals the 50% reduction.  E-Bay will protect on the reduction and bad FB. 

You don't have to offer free returns, just 30 day/Buyer pays.  So many think it has to be free.  It does not.

[luckythewinner]

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@buystopnet wrote:

I was confident that based on my excellent selling record and documented proof that they would rule in my favor or at a minimum cover the refund to the Buyer so I didn't have to take the hit

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Your confidence was misplaced.

If all it took was the word of a seller with excellent selling record and Photoshop to get eBay to rule in their favor, then every seller with a good reputation could send an empty package in place of a high-priced item and get free money at the buyer's expense.

And if all it took was the word of a seller with excellent selling record and Photoshop to get eBay to give the seller a courtesy refund, then every seller with a good reputation would have the ability to set up a "straw sale" with an accomplice and get free money at eBay's expense.

[max-list]

Thank you so much for your explanation and taking the time to help. It answered all my questions and it's very clear to me now on how to do it. Especially the part on when not to get Ebay involved.

Thank you!

[kensgiftshop]

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@buystopnet wrote:

 Now I am out the sale price of the item, the original shipping cost, the return shipping cost & I have an item that I cannot relist!

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Plus, they gave you a defect for getting Ebay involved.

[spreadlovelikefire]

Anytime!  You can message me if you have any questions as they arise.  The returns is a bit hard to understand if you aren't a big seller or haven't been doing this very long.  eBay tends to leave stuff out of the updates and if you just read the policy, a lot of times it doesn't ever work how they are stating it works.  The best way is the trial and error but on here it can be costly.  So if all else fails and you question if you are handling something correctly or not, shoot me an email and I'll do my best to help you out.  I've been selling full time for over a decade on here and have seen policies come and go, so good, some not so good.  Hang in there, it gets easier to understand the more you deal with it.  

[max-list]

Thank you. If I get stuck I'll hit you up.

[allthingssurplus]

I've been selling on the this scam platform for 21 years.  eBay has turned into a predator with regard to charging fees.  In no way will the Seller ever be placed before the Buyer.  You will lose.  I could site many cases  where I was clearly not at fault and never won the case.  eBay has the belief that the Buyer is the only person that counts in this selling game.  This is not a chicken and egg situation.  Without the Seller there is no eBay.  If it were not for the Sellers investing in product to put on their shelves to sell on eBay the platform would be moot.  In my case we have over $4mil on those shelves.  We sell around $2.4mil online.  Most of that was going on eBay.  However in the past few years we have realized that we need to leave the platform and are doing so slowly.  We currently are selling $400K on the site.  Another year or so and we should have left for good.  With 4200 listings can't just close down.  We are making a controlled withdrawal.  Its sad that eBay could care less about a 21 year Seller leaving the site.  They also don't care that we sell the $2mil on other sites.  They feel if one Seller leaves another will take their place.  Bad business model.  The other part they miss is 10% of the Sellers provide eBay with 40% of their income.  Most of the people I deal with and talk with are large Seller and most have already left and others like myself are taking it slow.  You will not win on this site.  eBay managements goal is to extract as much money as possible from you and find new blood to start that process over again.  All I need to know is eBay is now 20% of my business and 90% of my problems.  Good luck, you'll need it.

[vintagecraze50]

Ebay offers a great way to reduce the financial hit when customers send back damaged or unsaleable goods. If you are top rated and offer free shipping and returns you can deduct up to 50 percent off the return. I have never had to do this so I am not sure if the buyers can go and file a chargeback after this but probably not. I am just guessing at this point.

[gjs_16]

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@auctionairecorp wrote:

 you got to keep calling them.. 

Each call takes time...
How much is your time worth ?

How much is the profit on the item sold?
How much money would you lose by not calling?

All these things and more should be figured before making a final decision.