mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
That is what I thought. Thank you for coming back to explain further.
So you are suggesting that sellers should just communicate with the buyer informing them in an eBay message that you the seller will be refunding them in full?
NO That was NOT my suggestion, that was someone elses.
Or are you suggesting the seller start a cancellation request by which the buyer can receieve full refund through this process?
Yes, IF the reason is for a buyer reason. Meaning the item was flawed, damaged or otherwise in need of being returned or refunded. I NEVER suggested or implied that a seller should do this if they were just trying to deflect an OOS defect.
And in doing either of these steps it takes out the defect for SNAD, INR, (seller standard ratings) and performance (service metric).
You do NOT get a "defect" because a SNAD or INR is opened against a seller IF the seller resolves the SNAD or INR BEFORE it is escalated to Ebay. So that wasn't even a consideration in my mind for what the OP asked about.
Also I am not sure where the 40% FVF you mentioned is coming from? I am not reading that anywhere in any of the new policies. All of them say 4% not 40%?
The new metrics that starts on the Sept 20th eval is normal, what we are currently use to where Ebay evals us on our dashboard defects to conclude what our status as a seller is. That has not changed.
But they have also added another level that is separate from the eval we are all use to and that is in regards to SNADs that are opened. No matter the outcome and no matter if the SNAD is ever escalated to Ebay, the mere fact that they were opened will be counting against the seller. Ebay will be comparing us in a metrics of their design to our peers. If our SNAD rate is higher that what Ebay determines our peer rates are, this can put us into the penalty box as a seller. A penalty on our Final Value Fees.
You could be TRS and still fall into this penalty on FVFs. And YES it is a 40% penality. All we need to do is the math to figure that out.
In round numbers of ease.
If you are currently paying 10% in FVFs and it is raised to 14% due to the penalty. That IS A 40% INCREASE. Not a 4% increase. A 4% increase on a 10% fee would bring it to 10.4%. 10% X 4% = 10.4%
4% divided by 10% = 40%
Or lets look at dollars.
$100 x 10% FVF = $10
$100X 14% FVF = $14
$10 FVF X 4% = $0.40
$10 FVF X 40% = $4.00 which is what your FVF changes to if you end up in the penalty box.
@findersltd wrote:For the metrics a buyer returning an item because they just didn't like it or they changed their mind does not count against you. So it won't result in a raise in FVF. The only things that counts are out of stock, damaged, INR, & SNAD.
So they [Ebay] has said so far. If your buyer properly files the Request as BR, then it won't be counted against you in this metrics. It is ONLY for SNAD requests and it doesn't matter if they are wrongly filed. If a buyer that is showing and stating remorse opens the request as a SNAD, it counts against you. Ebay is saying that they have allowed room in the metrics to account for false SNADs.
What about this last year? When ebay came in and snatched 4%
Can I get my money back?
I'm not sure why you might think a refund would be in order. The current rule is if your evaluation finds that you have too many defects, it affects your selling status. If you status falls below normal, you are in the penalty box for FVFs.
This rule remains even after the new one comes into affect. It just gives Ebay TWO different ways in which to get the seller into a penalty box. You only have to qualify one way NOT both. So if you have too many defects and fall to a selling status of Below Standard, you will experience the penalty. OR if you have too many SNADs filed. no matter their outcome, as compared to your peers, Ebay will kick you into the penalty box.
It is possible for a TRS to be in the penalty box if they received too many SNADs.
Ebay is NOT taking this retroactive for a year. They are only going back to June 1st.
My inquiry was not to a percentage as you are using here. It was to a statement you said that the FVF will be 40%.
Good point. While it is a 40% penalty, I really should have worded that better. It is a 40% increase on the FVF normally paid if you were not in the penalty box.
I understand you are separating the FVF into two sections (FVF + FVF penalty) to make your extremely high number seem intimidating, but eBay does not have this separation you and others are using.
NO I'm NOT. As I stated before a 4% increase would make the FVF 10.4% A 40% increase makes it 14%. You are confusing the words Increase and additonal FVF. It is NOT a 4% "increase", it is a 4% ADDITIONAL fee which IS a 40% increase.
I'm have no need or desire to "intimidate" anyone. I do however like the truth. You aren't doing anyone a service by trying to sugar coat something or make it seem as if it is something it is not. And it is NOT a 4% Increase.
They simplified it as as increase of 4% FVF.
My numbers in my previous posting show this to be incorrect. A sellers FVF are NOT increasing by 4% if they fall into the penalty. And no matter how many times you say it does not make it so. It IS AN ADDTIONAL 4% FEE. The two are NOT the same.
I think you can understand how using words like a 40% FVF penalty can be confusing to other users?
Yes I can, I get that. It is also confusing trying to use the words Increase and Additional as meaning the same thing when they absolutely do NOT.
Why not just use the same language eBay is already using?
Because it is misleading and untrue.
I do that all the time to. I take it one step further as the vast majority of the time a buyer never even acknowledges they got a refund or the email I sent. I put a copy of the email in the package and I highlight how much I refunded to them. Still it is rare that a buyer ever says thank you, but sometimes I get a pleasant surprise.
Again I apologize, my use of the word "increase" was completely wrong. As you stated it is not a 40% increase. You are absolutely correct. I chose my word badly.
It is an Additional 4% FVF which increases the total FVF by 40% on a normal FVF of 10%.
I understand you are separating the FVF into two sections (FVF + FVF penalty) to make your extremely high number seem intimidating, but eBay does not have this separation you and others are using.
NO I'm NOT. As I stated before a 4% increase would make the FVF 10.4% A 40% increase makes it 14%. You are confusing the words Increase and additonal FVF. It is NOT a 4% "increase", it is a 4% ADDITIONAL fee which IS a 40% increase.
Your math again is confusing a 4% increase would not be 10.4%. You are suggesting the increased FVF is only four tenth of one percent? I wil assume this was an oversite because I understand you are very detailed.
If you have a 10% fee that you want to INCREASE by 4%, then 10% x 4% = 10.4%
If you have a 10% fee that you want to add an ADDITIONAL 4% to then it is 10% + 4% = 14%
They simplified it as as increase of 4% FVF.
My numbers in my previous posting show this to be incorrect. A sellers FVF are NOT increasing by 4% if they fall into the penalty. And no matter how many times you say it does not make it so. it is a 4% ADDITIONAL fee which IS a 40% increase.
I will always disagree with your math on this subject. And my point is you are saying a 40% increase but to what? Do you really want to make an explanation every time you repeat this that your math formula is based on an increase to the current FVF including the shipping FVF and that this 40% increase is for all FVF's associated with the transaction?
I have said [three times now] that I should have initially worded it better and I subsequently have. I don't typically have to make a repeat explanation on this subject. I respect that for you this just doesn't seem appropriate, but it changes nothing I've said. If before penalty you paid $10 on $100 worth of sales and after the penalty is applied you pay $14 on $100 worth of sales, that is a 40% difference, not a 4% difference.
Why not just use the same language eBay is already using?
Because it is misleading and untrue.
Your 40% penalty is the true misleading part of this entire debate. eBay does not call it a penalty so I am not sure why you would?
OK if you think you are only going to pay 4% more, so be it. It isn't the reality of it, but you have the right to believe anything you want.
