Defect policy & cases closed without seller resolution policy reflects temperamental administration

[iamcara]

I have never seen anyone explain this in detail, rather I've only seen people just say "eBay sides with the buyer all the time." So it just seems like people are upset about some kind of interaction that they have had with eBay in which they as a seller have done something wrong.

The defect policy does not accurately reflect what actually occurs when you ask eBay for help with a return case. eBay simply accuses you of trying to take advantage of the buyer even when the buyer returns an item in a suspicious manner (such as returning from a different address & name, and making unnecessary excuses about how the description is off in one part even though it is accurate in another). In this case the buyer refused to acknowledge that the returned item is a pinky ring and labeled as such, and used some detail in the AI generated description to make some kind of excuses which raised suspicion. However I had free returns on, which means that there was no need to make any excuse in order to submit a return. 

Most people in this thread will argue about the legitimacy of the return reason that the buyer provided, which is not what this thread is about, but we will just have to ignore these people.

Simply asking eBay to step in and investigate a potential fraud return results in a defect on my account and a negative point in the "Cases closed without seller resolution" graph. The transaction defect count system suggests that a seller must provide good customer service and not rebel against eBay conventions in the context of providing buyers with good customer service. There is no consistency here with how we receive defects just for simply asking eBay to help investigate a case.

The "Cases closed without seller resolution" section clearly states that a negative point in this account measure results from us contacting eBay BEFORE refunding the buyer. This is somewhat understandable as it is clearly worded and it is very clear as to what would result in a negative point in this section. They simply want you to refund the buyer (and potential criminal) before asking eBay to investigate the case.

However the transaction defect section does not accurately describe the fact that you get a defect on your account for simply asking eBay to investigate a potential scam return. In which case you are told that you have 48 hours to resolve the case with the buyer. And this 48 hour policy apparently is no longer applicable when you ask eBay to investigate the return. This is also not stated anywhere. It is not stated anywhere that I will receive a defect on my account as a result of asking a question, and it is also implied that I have 48 hours to resolve the case regardless of asking eBay for help.

Not only this, but when you ask eBay to investigate the issue, they send you an email explaining that you have 5 days to submit documents (unspecified) to eBay about the case. As you can see below, this is also deceptive as it can imply that you now have 5 days to resolve the case on your own regardless of the ongoing investigation.

So there are a bunch of implications here that eBay is out to punish people who play mind games with eBay, but their written policies and the absence of warnings when it comes to actions that might result in defects shows us that there is administration in the eBay corporation that has temperamental issues when it comes to sellers asking eBay for help.

Why is it that it seems like eBay is accusing me of trying to scam a buyer who is returning an item when the email that they sent me includes a form that seems to have absolutely nothing about the case at hand? I am being deceptive for submitting a document that they sent to me in error or as a result of a lazy or temperamental administration that regards most sellers as being obnoxious?

As you can see above there is clearly no section that allows me to specify what my issue is. All I am able to do is check the box that is closest to what my issue is. And so you give me an option that is deceptive, and tell me that I am being deceptive for choosing an option listed above that you forced me into selecting as opposed to providing a detailed explanation as to what is happening and what my concern about the return is?

And there is absolutely no formal explanation as to why I have received a defect for this interaction. Another underhanded accusation that I am acting rebelliously, and am only capable of responding with mind games. Tell me, what is the mind game that I am employing?

Below is the descriptions for both defects and cases closed without seller resolution. As you can see, here, eBay is being very specific about what constitutes a case closed without seller resolution, yet at the same time does not give us any information about how simply asking eBay for help about a potential scam will result in a defect on our account, which can ultimately revoke our selling privileges. And they use an underhanded accusation that the only possible thing that we could be doing is trying to scam a buyer. Really nice, eBay administration does not have a good future. 

It is very clear that eBay has the resources to make these changes, as we can see from the arbitrary changes that they make to the website on a fairly frequent basis, yet they do not find it to be important to change these sloppy policies and traps that we can run into as sellers, the people who are really behind the driving force of eBay, not eBay's investors.

So what is the idea? eBay administration is telling us that we are being obnoxious and non-communicative, and thus blocking out opportunities for communication. They are underhandedly accusing us of being rebellious and sneaky. Yet they do not provide the means for us to communicate effectively with them. Why should I be punished for the mistakes of other sellers? Very temperamental, and immature of eBay's admins to accuse the whole lot of eBay's sellers of obnoxious behavior as a result of either a minority or majority of eBay sellers being aggressive towards customer service and administration through either emails, calls, or legal action.

Not only this, but it is very clear that the above charts do not accurately report the timing of these defects. It states that the transaction period that the graph is referring to is December 2023 to November of 2024, yet the chart is reporting data that is from December 2024. What am I supposed to gather from this? Are they stating that they will do whatever they want without care and you have no rights?.. because other sellers act like idiots?

[luckythewinner]

eBay wants to eliminate transactions that do not go smoothly, but it is not feasible for eBay to investigate those transactions and figure out whose "fault" it is and keep track of them. 

So IMHO if a seller is attracting transactions that do not go smoothly, eBay wants that seller to figure out how to eliminate those transactions, and gives the seller a very short window in which to do this. If the seller cannot figure it out, eBay will encourage that seller to leave.

In other words - eBay does not care WHY a seller attracts those transactions, they only care THAT a seller attracts those transactions.

IMHO eBay's approach to this will not change as long as there are plenty of sellers willing to list here. And history has clearly shown there are plenty of sellers willing to list here.

[fern*wood]

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Returns/sold-a-gold-ring-to-someone-in-Oregon-and-got-a-return-from-a/...

[fab_finds4u]

Your post is so long winded I stopped reading it.

eBay no longer decides case by case, and they haven't for years. They want the seller to resolve a case which is to offer to accept a return or refund. If a seller asks eBay for help then the seller did not resolve it, which results in a defect.

eBay can't tell who is right or wrong, who is lying or not so they decide in favor of the buyer. Once you realize that's how it works you will not be asking eBay to decide. In fact when a seller escalates a case the buyer gets a refund and eBay will tell them they don't need to return it.  If you have a returns accepted policy they might issue a label and have them return it.

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

@iamcara I had a hard time following this, but it sounds like a buyer initiated a return under your free return policy. A 30 day free return shipping policy means that you WILL accept the return for ANY or, for that matter, basically no reason, and you will pay return shipping.  By CHOOSING to offer a free return policy, you gave up the right to protest the reason for the return. The REASON for the return is immaterial.

The ONLY reason to call ebay into a situation like this is if the item is returned to you in damaged condition, or you receive an empty box or an item other than the one you sent. There is NO reason to argue that the buyer's reason was flawed or fraudulent (even if it was) because your own policy is that the reason for the return dos not matter. This is why ebay shows you the three items to "check" one.

Here is how this should work out:

You have a 30 day free return policy (or 60 day, whatever)

Buyer asks to return item. The reason the buyer offers does NOT matter.

You accept (or, if you have it set, ebay auto accepts for you)

Buyer returns item. (generally, you provide the return ebay label out of your own pocket)

You inspect the return. If it is the item you sent, in same condition, you refund buyer.

End of story.

There was NO reason to bring ebay into this.

[dhbookds]

So............did you ever open the box.......????? and, if so, was it the ring?

[tobaccocardyahoo]

Amazon tested a seller evaluation methods they called the Perfect Order Rate. It was intended to be a public rating, replacing Feedback. Seller opposition was loud, even among sellers with perfect FB.

The model of a perfect order

1. Buyer finds listing

2. Buyer Places Order

3. Seller packs and ships item

4. Buyer receives item in condition described.

Any other activity on the order, even a buyer-seller message at any point in this process was a defect. Unsolicited buyer or seller messages were defects.

This model permeates internet marketplaces, whether anyone publishes it or not.

Sellers should never have a problem sale (ha ha ha). Sellers should resolve all their problems. Ebay should never be asked to step in.

If you cannot afford to resolve all your problems, you are a problem seller.

It is not fair, but life is not fair, and it takes money to make money.  Over years of selling online, I have eliminated many products and types of product because they are more likely to generate a problem sale. I do not need Ebay or any other marketplace to make me do it. I am lazy and intolerant of problem sales and buyers.

They are sometimes unavoidable, but that means being willing to "throw money at the problem" to make it go away.  Some of the easiest problems in life to remedy are those that can be solved by "throwing money at the problem".

[robbie31415]

For context, this person refused to open their returned item.

Expecting eBay to cover them without ever opening and inspecting,

Because them inspecting would be them tampering with evidence.

Based on their last thread they deserve the defects, they refuse to follow policy, which has already been explained to them.

[itsjustasprain]

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@iamcara wrote:

So there are a bunch of implications here that eBay is out to punish people who play mind games with eBay, but their written policies and the absence of warnings when it comes to actions that might result in defects shows us that there is administration in the eBay corporation that has temperamental issues when it comes to sellers asking eBay for help.

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Nonsense. There is no 'administration in the eBay corporation that has temperamental issues' - it is an automated return process with limited grounds for appeal AFTER you have received the item back and refunded the buyer. 

Your response to the buyer (and to us here) was ridiculous: receiving the package back from the buyer and then refusing to open it to see what was inside. You dragged your feet so long on refunding that Ebay did it for you. At least you got the item back although despite repeated questions you have not told anyone here whether it was the item you sold or something else.

You were told multiple times by multiple people that if you did not refund after receiving the item back then Ebay would refund for you and keep all their fees as well. Now that has happened and you are acting all surprised about it. 

You need to learn from your mistakes and stop overthinking the issues. Learn how the return process works and act within it. If you want to file an appeal that happens AFTER the process is over - not in the middle of it.

[lakefor94]

You got the part right in your last paragraph about having no rights. eBay's sandbox, eBay's rules. What you "think" is unfair will remain as such.

eBay expects sellers to read policies and operate within those policies WITHOUT asking eBay to intervene.  eBay is NOT in the business of settling a sellers dispute with a buyer. 

You were warned by many about your lackadaisical AI description details, item specifics, measurements etc when you first started blowing thru getting the 1st 1000 listings up.

The ring is a perfect example of the aforementioned. 

[iamcara]

I think it's clearly an issue of sellers not even trying to make changes to the company's policies.

It is absolutely absurd that the defect chart does not update properly, yet it is something that can take away your privilege to sell at all.

When people complain about eBay and its policies and procedures, I have -never- seen them give a detailed explanation.

[fbusoni]

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@iamcara wrote:

Tell me, what is the mind game that I am employing?

 We've been trying to figure out that you since you started posting here.

One thing is certain however: you will NOT win a mind game with a computer.

[pickapaper]

@iamcarawrote: Are they stating that they will do whatever they want without care and you have no rights?.. 

Pretty much.   It's their company and they make the rules and policies and have the final say-so.

because other sellers act like idiots?

That's an unfair statement since you apparently are referring to only one seller that YOU had a problem with and that is only YOUR opinion of that seller, which may or may not be true.

[lakefor94]

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@iamcara wrote:

I think it's clearly an issue of sellers not even trying to make changes to the company's policies.

It would be interesting if you tried that same stunt with your AMZ account. You will find out about hardline selling venue policies.

It is absolutely absurd that the defect chart does not update properly, yet it is something that can take away your privilege to sell at all.

If you managed to get a defect reversed, the metrics normally update automatically on the 20th of the following month. 

When people complain about eBay and its policies and procedures, I have -never- seen them give a detailed explanation.

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@iamcara   The key is knowing exactly what the policies entail. eBay as a seller is not that hard to navigate if one can read and comprehend. Over 25 years, I have managed to sell 7,300+ items without a defect. A seller needs to know how to handle returns, simple as that, no muss, no fuss. You tend to ignore solid advice from experienced sellers, that is on you. 

I never get in any kind of back and forth with a buyer who files a return or inquires about a return. I use Free Returns. If they file a return, I provide a return label and wait until the return arrives back and then process according to policy. No communication required. No wasted time. 

If they inquire about a return thru messages, my response 90% of the time is simply, “Sorry to hear you are not pleased with your purchase. Please return for refund”.  ---  Nothing more, nothing less. Puts the ball in the buyer’s court and wait and see what they do.

Returns are part of the game. We have to deal with it. Easy peasy.

Which family member is the artist?

[fern*wood]

Did you decide not to relist your pinky ring?