eBay

bengregg91 · ‎10-27-2017

Hey everyone - I was curious if any other sellers have run into a situation like this before...

I sold a used auto headlight. I listed the condition as for parts/ not working and tried to give a decent description and posted a lot of pictures. I explicitly stated that the headlight was broken, the seal was bad, and that it would need to be worked on by someone handy. I listed this item as a non-returnable item because I have no use for it.

Someone purchased the headlight and when they received it they decided that it was more broken than they could work with. They noted that I used the word "crack" instead of "hole" in describing part of the headlight. I kind of felt bad about using the word "crack" interchangably but this defect was clearly visible in the pictures I posted.

The buyer opened a return and posted very upclose pictures of the hole, exagerating its size a bit. I responded that the defect was clear in the photos originally accompanying the item and also mentioned to some extent in the description.

I was concerned about what would happen so I contacted Ebay's support team. They said that based on the evidence they would likely rule in my favor if a case was open. This was re-assuring.

The buyer still hadn't responded to the message I sent after they opened the return so I made another call to Ebay support to make sure I would be ready for the next step. This time the agent I talked to stated that if a case was opened, she would leave a note on my account so that it was automatically dismissed and ruled in my favor. That was a true relief...

Until today happened. A case was opened and within 10 minutes it was ruled in favor of the buyer. I spent hours of my time making sure this wouldn't happen. I really wouldn't mind the item being returned except that the buyer chose to use priority shipping, which was over 3x (ended up being $67 instead of $20) more than standard shipping. I even advised the buyer in two messages that he/ she would save $45 dollars using standard. I even sent the buyer the differnce between the shipping quote and what he/ she paid for shipping over Paypal because I felt bad that priority costed so much.

While I am upset about Ebay's ruling on this case, I am more upset that two of their support agents gave me word that it would go the opposite direction. At the least I could have offered a partial refund back at that point. Also, the policy for having to pay for the shipping of an item as part of the refund it ridiculous. This was an $80 item. The priority delivery quote was $67. I'm guessing the buyer could have also asked for even quicker shipping method (overnight, etc.) that would have cost over $100. Why should I be responsible for refunding that amount when I have no control over it?

Has anyone found themselves in a sticky situation like this before?

bubbleman2010 · ‎10-27-2017

Once word gets out to sellers that ebays passing out reinbursments for improperly decided disputes like candy on the selling board they'll be like lemmings beaching themselves here....

99623 · ‎10-27-2017

Once word gets out to sellers that ebays passing out reinbursments for improperly decided disputes like candy on the selling board they'll be like lemmings beaching themselves here....

vintagecraze50 · ‎10-27-2017

It seems that a lot of the cs agents are trying to maintain a non conflictual relationship with the sellers when they call in asking for their help in getting info on how the case will turn out. They truly do tell you that they HOPE the case will be in your favor BUT, most of the time they are NOT in your favor. I suppose ALL of them could start saying No NOT IN YOUR FAVOR, but then, how would that work if THIS particular case does go in your favor. Tricky spot for the CS agents to be in for sure. I feel for them. Not a pleasant job with people screaming at them all day about problems.

max39666 · ‎10-27-2017

SNAD---one hoop that glitters with bright shining gold power.

Sorry this happen to the OP

gramophone-georg · ‎10-27-2017

@Anonymous wrote:
@bengregg91 wrote:
Hey everyone - I was curious if any other sellers have run into a situation like this before...

I sold a used auto headlight. I listed the condition as for parts/ not working and tried to give a decent description and posted a lot of pictures. I explicitly stated that the headlight was broken, the seal was bad, and that it would need to be worked on by someone handy. I listed this item as a non-returnable item because I have no use for it.

Someone purchased the headlight and when they received it they decided that it was more broken than they could work with. They noted that I used the word "crack" instead of "hole" in describing part of the headlight. I kind of felt bad about using the word "crack" interchangably but this defect was clearly visible in the pictures I posted.

The buyer opened a return and posted very upclose pictures of the hole, exagerating its size a bit. I responded that the defect was clear in the photos originally accompanying the item and also mentioned to some extent in the description.

I was concerned about what would happen so I contacted Ebay's support team. They said that based on the evidence they would likely rule in my favor if a case was open. This was re-assuring.

The buyer still hadn't responded to the message I sent after they opened the return so I made another call to Ebay support to make sure I would be ready for the next step. This time the agent I talked to stated that if a case was opened, she would leave a note on my account so that it was automatically dismissed and ruled in my favor. That was a true relief...

Until today happened. A case was opened and within 10 minutes it was ruled in favor of the buyer. I spent hours of my time making sure this wouldn't happen. I really wouldn't mind the item being returned except that the buyer chose to use priority shipping, which was over 3x (ended up being $67 instead of $20) more than standard shipping. I even advised the buyer in two messages that he/ she would save $45 dollars using standard. I even sent the buyer the differnce between the shipping quote and what he/ she paid for shipping over Paypal because I felt bad that priority costed so much.

While I am upset about Ebay's ruling on this case, I am more upset that two of their support agents gave me word that it would go the opposite direction. At the least I could have offered a partial refund back at that point. Also, the policy for having to pay for the shipping of an item as part of the refund it ridiculous. This was an $80 item. The priority delivery quote was $67. I'm guessing the buyer could have also asked for even quicker shipping method (overnight, etc.) that would have cost over $100. Why should I be responsible for refunding that amount when I have no control over it?

Has anyone found themselves in a sticky situation like this before?
I've gotten this reviewed and you will be receiving an update via email shortly. So sorry for the conflict between what you were told and how the case was decided - keep us posted if you have additional questions!

Trinton, nobody here doubted that you'd come through and save the day, but the question is that since we've been hearing about thr rigorous re-training of these darn eBay CSRs for at least a decade now... Why. Does. This. Just. Keep. Happening. ?

And WHY does it just keep happening in the Exact. Same. Way. ?

Chaos is NOT an "industry standard".

nawlinsron2 · ‎10-27-2017

Anybody else ready for an Independent Arbiter that has something besides FLOATING STANDARDS?

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-27-2017

@siayan wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
You're responsible for that amount for two reasons, the item was not properly described, and you did not send a shipping label to the customer, or have Ebay send one.

At the least I could have offered a partial refund back at that point. Also, the policy for having to pay for the shipping of an item as part of the refund it ridiculous.

Not as described cases are always for the item price, and return and original shipping. Sorry.
He is not responsible for 2 other reasons, he was told he wasn't twice. If they told he was maybe he would have just refunded and moved on.

With all due respect, yes, he was told that twice but as you know that was in error; he was still responsible. Not knowing he was doesn't change that fact as the end results show. If he knew how the MBG works and how to process it, that would not have happened. Not as described was admitted by the OP, which made this SNAD.

If he knew to send a label or have Ebay do it, buyer would not have chosen their own shipping that was so costly to him. Again, did not know how MBG works or what happens with a SNAD.

OP could have come to the Boards earlier, before calling Ebay, instead of after the fact.

cad777864 · ‎10-27-2017

The return label if issued thru ebay is the same shipping price and service as you sent. Did something different happen? Did you personally issue a labe yourself?

Your dealing with 5th grade educated people, if you think that i am just making that up, check out the Phillipines. These people are told to lie to sellers to get them off the phone. There going to always usually side with the buyer. American sellers mean nothing here, why do you think so little is selling for us anymore?

arun7500 · ‎10-27-2017

Yes, It's unfortunate, but ebay CS is notorious for telling you whatever you want to hear to get you off the phone and then doing the exact opposite.

ted_200 · ‎10-28-2017

With all due respect, yes, he was told that twice but as you know that was in error; he was still responsible. Not knowing he was doesn't change that fact as the end results show. If he knew how the MBG works and how to process it, that would not have happened. Not as described was admitted by the OP, which made this SNAD.

Well, I don't really think so... The only support for that is "hole" vs. "crack". I don't think that constitutes Significantly Not As Described (or even just Not As Described), given a) the damage was shown in the listing pictures, b) the damage was described in the listing, and c) the item is listed as "not working - parts only".

Anyhow, it seems pretty clear OP does not know how the MBG works and how to process it, for this particular item/situation at least, which is why he called eBay CS - twice - so that he'd know exactly how it was going to work. If they tell him he's not going to be responsible, at that point I don't see how it could possibly be his fault. It seems prety clear the seller would have handled this differently had they not been given the assurances by CS.

Yes, It's unfortunate, but ebay CS is notorious for telling you whatever you want to hear to get you off the phone and then doing the exact opposite.

It seems that a lot of the cs agents are trying to maintain a non conflictual relationship with the sellers when they call in asking for their help in getting info on how the case will turn out.

To be fair... it would seem the re-training was essentially "tell 'em what they want to hear". That's exactly what happened when the seller talked to CS - twice. And it's what happened when the buyer contacted eBay too. That may make the "satisfied" ratings for CS calls higher, but is creates chaos for the parties involved in the transaction.

The MBG program is abused so badly...

Maybe. But everything has "Money Back Guarantee" plastered all over it here, is it really that unreasonable for buyers to expect they're guaranteed to get their money back? I'll admit I've done this myself... buy items I suspect may not live up to the expectations the seller provided, because there could be a problem they haven't mentioned or that I can't see... or bid higher than I otherwise would... because I know I can get back out of it if necessary. That should only be the case if the seller offers Returns, but I know that's not how it is.

This thing was listed "not working, for parts only", and No Returns. If the seller sends a soup can, then MBG should apply. But not for "broken", when the seller clearly said and showed it was broken.

Buyers carelessly buy things...

The MBG was clearly designed to do exactly that - cause buyers to carelessly buy things. It improves "velocity", which increases fee revenue. It may appropriate for many segments of NIB consumer retail goods. It is not appropriate for items like the one we're discussing here, especially when listed as not working - no returns. I think this sort of example is an abuse of the MBG - "didn't live up to the expectations the seller provided" isn't the same as "didn't live up to what I hope for". But frankly the buyer knows exactly how the MBG program works in practice, so it was worth the risk (none) in hopes the item could be repaired and used by them.

All that aside, this situation was made worse by CS. I'm glad it's apparently been resolved for the OP.

The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves.

rolenboy01 · ‎10-28-2017

@ted_200 wrote:

Well, I don't really think so... The only support for that is "hole" vs. "crack". I don't think that constitutes Significantly Not As Described (or even just Not As Described), given a) the damage was shown in the listing pictures, b) the damage was described in the listing, and c) the item is listed as "not working - parts only".

Yeah this is a slippery slope, now any careless buyer or lying buyer can say they consider something a crack and not a hole or this and not that and claim SNAD on a For Parts or Not Working listing? I fail to see what the OP could have done differently to protect themselves not put a label on what the "damage" was? and then have the buyer claim it wasn't damage it was "wear"?

myboardid · ‎10-28-2017

@cad777864 wrote:
The return label if issued thru ebay is the same shipping price and service as you sent. Did something different happen? Did you personally issue a labe yourself?
Your dealing with 5th grade educated people, if you think that i am just making that up, check out the Phillipines. These people are told to lie to sellers to get them off the phone. There going to always usually side with the buyer. American sellers mean nothing here, why do you think so little is selling for us anymore?

This should be the case, but in my last return it was not so. Buyer opened a return saying the $10.95 item arrived broken. It weighed 9 oz packaged, I paid $3.32 to send it via First Class Package. When I looked at my option to have eBay send a label, it stated that I would be chaged $7.63 for a Priority Mail return. After consideration, I just refunded the buyer's payment without requiring a return, which is very much against my inclinations, but was the only financially feasible option. BTW, buyer said the item, a hanging Christmas ornament with a string on top, was missing it's head. It had a head and the attached string when I sent it. I'm 100% sure the buyer was lying.

----------------------------
Successful and experienced seller since 1997, over 70,000 feedback, boardie since the boards were begun.

papermoneyforme · ‎10-28-2017

@bengregg91 wrote:
Hey everyone - I was curious if any other sellers have run into a situation like this before...

I sold a used auto headlight. I listed the condition as for parts/ not working and tried to give a decent description and posted a lot of pictures. I explicitly stated that the headlight was broken, the seal was bad, and that it would need to be worked on by someone handy. I listed this item as a non-returnable item because I have no use for it.

Someone purchased the headlight and when they received it they decided that it was more broken than they could work with. They noted that I used the word "crack" instead of "hole" in describing part of the headlight. I kind of felt bad about using the word "crack" interchangably but this defect was clearly visible in the pictures I posted.

The buyer opened a return and posted very upclose pictures of the hole, exagerating its size a bit. I responded that the defect was clear in the photos originally accompanying the item and also mentioned to some extent in the description.

I was concerned about what would happen so I contacted Ebay's support team. They said that based on the evidence they would likely rule in my favor if a case was open. This was re-assuring.

The buyer still hadn't responded to the message I sent after they opened the return so I made another call to Ebay support to make sure I would be ready for the next step. This time the agent I talked to stated that if a case was opened, she would leave a note on my account so that it was automatically dismissed and ruled in my favor. That was a true relief...

Until today happened. A case was opened and within 10 minutes it was ruled in favor of the buyer. I spent hours of my time making sure this wouldn't happen. I really wouldn't mind the item being returned except that the buyer chose to use priority shipping, which was over 3x (ended up being $67 instead of $20) more than standard shipping. I even advised the buyer in two messages that he/ she would save $45 dollars using standard. I even sent the buyer the differnce between the shipping quote and what he/ she paid for shipping over Paypal because I felt bad that priority costed so much.

While I am upset about Ebay's ruling on this case, I am more upset that two of their support agents gave me word that it would go the opposite direction. At the least I could have offered a partial refund back at that point. Also, the policy for having to pay for the shipping of an item as part of the refund it ridiculous. This was an $80 item. The priority delivery quote was $67. I'm guessing the buyer could have also asked for even quicker shipping method (overnight, etc.) that would have cost over $100. Why should I be responsible for refunding that amount when I have no control over it?

Has anyone found themselves in a sticky situation like this before?

Why are you selling useless garbage on Ebay that should be in the trash and then complaining when you have a problem.

Take your lumps and learn from this mess.

Yes, I am being blunt but getting tired of all the complaints due to both sellers and buyers that should never have done what they did and are now paying for it.

goodluckselling · ‎10-28-2017

What is going to happen is ebay will go to a automated returns based on the type of case opened where if it is a seller issue they will auto submit a return label for the buyer to use from the sellers account. There are far to many

what if's,
exceptions,
might have been,
could possible work that way scenarios to automate this process any other way.

Selling online is really going to turn into a decision of is it worth the cost of doing business online versus locally (B&M, flea markets, swap meets, consignment, etc)? Lower priced items will start to disappear due to the item cost involved and time invested, automated refund risks VS potential profit.

This is also how big business will have an another advantage over us small sellers, because they are much more automated and although eBay has put in automated process for us to use in regard to refunds and returns many here just bad mouth them as unreasonable and declare they will never use them, which just plays into the hands of the big business sellers.

Good Luck Selling!