Counterfeit Items Are Being Hunted Down, Why Not Here?

[thenobletuckylife]

Evening Folks,

Saw this article just a short bit ago.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/07/06/ice-says-it-seized-43m-worth-counterfeit-items-in-laredo-texas....

What struck me about the article is that it seems that more effort is being placed on intercepting these fraudulent items destined to leave the country yet to date I haven't heard much about them coming in.

THis truly takes a lot off the market but sellers here are still suffering when competeing against this.

I think it's time other places like ebay decide to call these experts in and clean this place up.

Mr C

[thenobletuckylife]

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@loveyourimagination49 wrote:
I just wanted to say hi Mr. C. Hope all is well with you and the yours.

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Hi there loveyourimagination,

So kind of you to say hi and inquire...so nice!

Sincere kindness is so contagious and I must say Mrs C and I are well and enjoying life.

Thank You and hope is well with you.

Mr C

[cooltronix]

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@slippinjimmy wrote: 

To be clear, there is lots of counterfeit goods coming out of Asia (not just China), going back 30-40 years the stuff came from Japan, go back 100 years and most of it was coming out of......THE USA!

Retro and Vintage replicas DOES NOT equal counterfeit and anyone buying a retro style item for a few dollars know perfectly well it's not an original item AND not sold as an original item.

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It's correct, Japan copied i.e. Leica 80 years ago - but only the technology and never the brand. I don't recall any 1:1 Leica copy from Japan. Maybe Russia had some. What does it mean? Not much to me. You mean USA did it at one time, so it's okay for others to do it now? I disagree, and I guess most people disagree. 

Retro and Vintage replicas DOES equal counterfeits if it's infringing a protected brand. Otherwise, call a 2017 Adidas Sneaker 'vintage' and just copy it.

[pjcdn2005]

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@twnpopcards wrote:

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@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures wrote:

article from 2014 and did not mention counterfeits....you added that. But they are giving info to certain chinese manufacturers about what is selling and these certain chinese are making reproductions of some of those items...not exact copies though....which makes them not counterfeits but reproductions...also why they are allowed to be sold.

This was covered back then.

The real counterfeits which come out of many different countries BTW are different...are actual counterfeits..identical copies, brands names are used etc etc

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Try selling a reproduction if you are a US seller and see how long it stays up for sale and you keep your account.  They also DO send the specs for exact knockoffs as they now consider anything listed on Ebay for sale THEIR PROPERTY and that they own the IP rights.  One of these days they are going to run up against a company bigger and badder than they are and see just how well that UA stands up in court.

BTW - the current CEO STILL considers the Chinese to be EBays future, so that also says a lot about how they operate.

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You’ve posted that same article link a number of times in the last while yet fail to explain where it says anything about sending exact specs so that items can be counterfeited.  It certainly doesn’t say that in the article and doesn’t even suggest it so why do you keep repeating the same info over and over?  

[slippinjimmy]

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@thenobletuckylife wrote:

Evening,

Because everytime I go and look for products I am in the market for I have to wade through the fakes.

Try to find a real Milwaukee M12 battery in the first pile of listings. They are almost a milwaukee...cleverly disquised....but they are not. I do not know this for a fact but considering that Milwaukee is only just been really pushing this new line of tools I doubt there pattent has already run out.

Mr C

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I just had a look for the batteries, sure the cheap ones at the top that say "FOR Milwaukee" and don't have the Milwaukee name on them are not sold by Milwaukee Electric Tool.

The higher priced branded versions are sold by Milwaukee Electric Tool.

The real question is where are they made? In most cases many are made in the exact same factories, others may be made elsewhere. Batteries in particular that can be made by many companies and many quality levels even within a single company.

Do you know where the Milwaukee branded batteries are made? Here's a hint, Milwaukee Electric Tool Company is part of the Techtronic Industries, a Hong Kong based based company, it's just one of many old American brands which they own such as Hoover, Dirt Devil, Homelite etc. virtually everything they sell is made in you know where!

[slippinjimmy]

@twnpopcards wrote:

  Ebay is also continuing to attempt to find warehouses for the Chinese so they can store their items over here and speed up their delivery times,

This is pretty hillarious, a simple Google search and you will find hundreds of companies from modest to huge that offer fulfillment services in the USA for both foreign and domestic companies. NOBODY needs eBay's help for that and there is a TON of capacity available for them to take on even the biggest Chinese exporters.

Besides the companies that have provided this type of service for DECADES there is the new giant on the block, Amazon who have multiple warehouses in almost every state plus warehouses in dozens of other countries, they will happily take the business and handle orders for sales on ANY platform.

Order fulfillment is big business and the entire industry is worth around $22 billion, according to an IBISWorld study. As of 2017, the US warehousing industry employs 957,000 employees, a growth of 46% from a decade ago. Most of this labor force now works in fulfillment and distribution centers.

https://financesonline.com/top-20-order-fulfillment-services/

[moondogblues]

"I am again amazed that you think different agencies sharing info and working together is a problem?"

You have maybe forgotten 9-11? FBI guy trying to warn the guv-mint and getting blown off....? NO PUN intended.

[moondogblues]

"Sincere kindness is so contagious and I must say Mrs C and I are well and enjoying life."

Glad to hear it Mr C......hubby and I are also doing well and have finally released our first CD, yay!!!!!

Keep up the good work you do, and never give up the VOICE against the whatever. You know what I mean.

[cooltronix]

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@thenobletuckylife wrote:

Try to find a real Milwaukee M12 battery in the first pile of listings.

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Easy. Real ones have the Milwaukee logo. Others usually say 'for Milwaukee'.

IMHO, that is fair use and gives you a choice. Would I buy Milwaukee original part? Well, I have experience with Li-ion and I probably would get the original. Others aren't really that much cheaper. 

But you didn't give a good example. I give you a good one: ink / toner cartriges

I respect copyrights and everything. But I don't like to be held hostage by a manufacturer only using their ink. I always buy unbranded cartriges. Laser toner for cheap home printers costs 75% of a new printer. 

[twnpopcards]

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@slippinjimmy wrote:

@twnpopcards wrote:

  Ebay is also continuing to attempt to find warehouses for the Chinese so they can store their items over here and speed up their delivery times,

This is pretty hillarious, a simple Google search and you will find hundreds of companies from modest to huge that offer fulfillment services in the USA for both foreign and domestic companies. NOBODY needs eBay's help for that and there is a TON of capacity available for them to take on even the biggest Chinese exporters.

Besides the companies that have provided this type of service for DECADES there is the new giant on the block, Amazon who have multiple warehouses in almost every state plus warehouses in dozens of other countries, they will happily take the business and handle orders for sales on ANY platform.

Order fulfillment is big business and the entire industry is worth around $22 billion, according to an IBISWorld study. As of 2017, the US warehousing industry employs 957,000 employees, a growth of 46% from a decade ago. Most of this labor force now works in fulfillment and distribution centers.

https://financesonline.com/top-20-order-fulfillment-services/

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Last response to you period on this as you continue to confuse the issues.  Ebay is not a fulfillment company, they are in their own words a Technology Company.  Amazon has its own inventory as well as their customers inventory.  Ebay has zero inventory of their own or their customers.  

Ebay was working for their partners to help them grow in this country by having faster delivery times, which is fine if they did that for all, but they do not.  Again, these are their partners who they have continued to sign partnership agreements with, which is fine.  But again, they do not make those offers to any US companies.  

When a buyer does not wish to see Chinese goods they have the option to choose US goods only, but of course the search manages to always show the Chinese stuff that is the cheapest first,, whether it actually is or they have once again used a variation scheme to list one cheap item for $.99 and the rest for the regular price, but this is another violation that Ebay allows them to get away with.  

You obviously are going to find something to counter no matter what so lets just end it here as I am not done with the topic as it is a complete waste of my time and efforts.  I have been selling on here for 20+ years and have watched all the changes and wish the site could become half of what it used to be, but that will never happen until they hire some top notch programmers who are able to tear what has been patched together for years apart and either repair it or start over.  Defend Ebay all you want, I just happen to not agree with you and have enough experience to see through the rose colored glasses.

[futuretomorrow]

Not when they're 1:1 fakes and you don't know what you're looking at. What you and others simply don't understand is that it takes years to develop the ability to tell a 1:1 fake. These are not Canal Street fakes and if you don't have the authentic in hand to compare, you're hosed, unless it's a model, pattern etc. you are extremely familiar with.

How can it be done right here when eBay isn't properly staffed to identify fakes? Are you suggesting ICE misppropriate their funds and do that here?

Given the complexities of doing this properly, which I've done for more than 5 years, eBay would never spend that kind of money on this problem in particular. To truly deal with this you'd need to hire a person for each affected category and unless they had a team, in some categories, they would be overworked.

In sneakers, I'd never accept such a job unless I could hire 2 other people minimum to start with me on day 1. 

Then, you'd need to train eBay staff on technqiues in identifying boxes, stickers and the shoes themselves. This will take a minimum of 1 year, not months, with day in day out training. If they have other things to do and this is not their main task, it's 3-5 years. 

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

That is incorrect. It is not infringing on anything..it is also NOT an exact replica of anything.

Reproductions and counterfeits are not necessarily the same thing. There are legal distinctions that will not be ignored even if some refuse to make note of that.
If you are using someone's trademarked name then that is trademark infringement....also not necessarily a counterfeit if the item is not an exact replica in every aspect.

These laws are rather complex and some even overlap into other laws and you cannot ignore parts of them to try to make things something they are not. There are also copyrights and trademarks etc etc that have expired and those can legally be used/copied etc.

You can also hire a licensed attorney in any of those areas to explain it to you.

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

Most members are not licensed to authenticate. They merely have opinions. Too many members do not even bother to learn the laws. They take bits and pieces of them and run with that because it sounds good to what they are trying to accomplish. This will never work and will never be acceptable.
Members doing this also are not helping the issue for sellers..they are merely further confusing it for others.

[thenobletuckylife]

Morning,

On the surface this makes sense yet many of the things I may be legitimately concerned about I would not be qualified to pursue but that does not negate the issue.

Lead based paints on toys from overseas....or even here for that matter...I do not have the background in chemical composition to evaluate this and I allow others to work on my behalf to take my best interest into account for instance.

Poor quality foods, pet foods etc are once again something I have no expertise in but that shouldn't mean that since I do not have a biology degree or some other science degree that would be applicable in discovering and stopping it that I then have no valid voice in the concern.

I am not an engineer yet I drive vehicles that are meant to be safe so just because I do not have a degree in that field does not mean I do not have a valid concern if something is poorly made and puts my family at risk...such as the massive recall for airbags ongoing at this time.

Just because I do not have a specific degree and/or skill set to resolve a problem doesn't mean I have no right to recognize it.

Once again I revisit my original post...if ICE found it necessary to investigate and apprehend fraudulent goods being sent out of the country then aren't those same fraudulent goods coming in deserving the same attention?

All the arguments against implementing this doesn't change the fact that 40 some million dollars was worth someones time to take off the "street" for export, I thought the citizens of this country deserved the same consideration for what was being brought in.

Mr C

[sidemouse]

Part of what bothers me...

And there's certainly something wrong with just outright pilfering someone else's idea and making a cheap buck with little to no initial effort on the part of the thief, no doubt about it, I'm even the proud recipient of that very act myself so I do know the feeling but...

I recently had to replace a widget (three, actually) on one of my machines, and trying to order the OEM part would've cost $20 a piece to total $60... After much looking around I finally found some NOS old aircraft related government surplus widgets that just so happened to be the same thing I needed and was able to finagle a deal for all three for $30, what a deal...

Or so I thought...

Wasn't much later when ebay in their never-ending quest to make another sale based off the last search displayed in its results exact aftermarket replicas of my item made in some country far away for... Can you guess the price?

$2 a piece.

Actually slightly less, I was able to order 5 for around $9.12 from various vendors.

And now....

Having received the first of that shipment I installed it on my machine and I am telling you, there is no difference between the 2-dollar C-widget and the $20 OEM one, none whatsoever.

That bothers me as well.

I have no issues with a manufacturer making a profit, none at all.

They do have overhead and costs to cover, I get that.

But $20 over an item that should cost TWO?

Come on, someone give me a break here.

Who really wants to pay for a so-called OEM item that is wrapped in the emperor's new clothes which makes it cost TEN times more than the same exact same item from the next vendor over?!  Yes I realize in some cases the quality control has gone out the window, those things should never have left the factory either but when the part that's ten times cheaper is as good as the OEM?

Help me out a little bit.

I'm struggling...

It's the decision between outright theft and corporate greed, you're asking me which one is guilty?

You are asking me to condemn the theft but condone the greed, is that how I am looking at it?

Therein lies my struggle.

I have no problem condemning outright theft of intellectual rights and property and all of that.

But I also don't really care for the corporate greed that lies at the opposite end of that.

No, I mean I don't care for the corporate greed at all either, I really hold it in no higher regard than the outright theft, in my book the two are one and the same in terms of how bad it is.

If I condemn one I condemn both.

Just my .002

[thenobletuckylife]

Morning,

Excellent thoughts and well presented, I too have this moral dilemma at times.

Not all goods being manufactured overseas are being made there because no one will make them here as some suggest, many times and especially initially when when overseas manufacturing began in earnest, it was all about exceptional profit margins, almost like a pyramid scheme.

Many times things are not made here because safety rules and environmental rules are all but non existent overseas reducing the overhead costs to produce the products substantially.

Mr C