Chinese buyer w/zero feedback purchases to a forwarding address, then opens a charge back

[or_couture]

Hey,

So I've had a Chinese buyer purchasing a high priced item to the following freight forwarder service in OR:

15617 NE Airport Way
Portland OR 97251

Purchase was made last weekend, before that I suddenly got multiple msgs from 'various' Chinese 'buyers' inquiring about the price of the item - all but one were new users with 0 feedback. I suspected it was the same person and regardless, gave everyone the same answers. I adjust the price and another 'new' user with 0 feedback purchases the item - not any of the users who had been corresponding with me.

I shipped right away on Monday, item was delivered few days later. eBay deleted his account as well.

They didn't contact me about the transaction, I just noticed by myself it was deleted. I didn't upload tracking cause the entire thing didn't 'smell' right, I was going to do so after delivery. And sure enough - on Wednesday the 'buyer' opens a charge back outside eBay and says he tried to contact me to cancel (buyer never reached out - maybe cause his account was deleted?) and since the item wasn't shipped, allegedly, he wants a refund.

I will obviously challenge this and upload tracking/proof of delivery - but is it possible I'll be left without the item and out of the funds? The whole thing is bizarre, not the freight forwarding service itself (although that address is associated with few scams), but the way I was approached by multiple new zero feedback users, then another one buys, then the account is deleted and now a charge back.

Can a deleted account be instated? Can he lose the charge back case and then claim something else and try to return (it's a final sale item)? Thanks

[dbfolks166mt]

     What you stated is for the most part correct according to eBay's policies and the MBG. The other externality is chargebacks where for the most part eBay's policies do not apply. The CC companies have their own set of policies and rules and the deck is stacked against the seller. 

[autovat]

Just to let people know, the zip code for this area was 97230 but USPS changed in over a year ago to 97251.

We use a freight forwarding company in the same area, and have noticed that sometimes when checking tracking, some packages will still show delivered to the 97230 zip code.  All the shipping companies are not on the same page.

I can't comment on the other issues, but just wanted to let people know that the zip code discrepancy in not some elaborate scam.   The shipping companies just need an update.

[autovat]

We use a freight forwarding company in the same area, and have noticed that sometimes when checking tracking, some packages will still show delivered to the 97230 zip code.  All the shipping companies are not on the same page.

I can't comment on the other issues, but just wanted to let people know that the zip code discrepancy in not some elaborate scam.   The shipping companies just need an update.

[pjcdn2005]

@ittybitnot 

@wastingtime101 

Starting September 10, 2018, you will be required to upload tracking in the structured data field before the estimated delivery date has passed in order to appeal an "item not received" claim. eBay will not protect you from a claim if you send the tracking number to the buyer via email.

I don't know if that 2018 rule is still in effect however the word appeal in that sentence rings a bell. I might have misunderstood the comments  or am not remembering it correctly but it seems to me that there was a post from a blue a long time ago that the situation only applied to appeals, not to winning or losing a claim. So if a seller did not upload the tracking number before the estimated delivery date and did not upload it into the claim, they could not appeal the decision to show that yes, the item was delivered.    But if the tracking was uploaded only at the time of the claim, they would still win.    I think that it was a rule that they added in there just for certain situations.  But as I said..I could be wrong.

Even if I am wrong, I would think that rule, if still in effect, would apply to mbg claims, not to chargebacks?

[itscalledapostingid]

It wouldn't have any bearing on the chargeback case however if the OP had just provided tracking in the first place they probably wouldn't be in the situtation they're in now.

[or_couture]

Right. I agree. I also have Russia in my exclusion list as I have been scammed from there before. I have added China as well after this incident.

I've just had another Chinese buyer making a purchase & using a freight forwarder in OR, similar address in Airport way.

14991 NE Airport Way

Portland OR 97251

And if you google *again* you get the actual zipcode is 97230.

I doubt it's a coincidence and it's probably the same person, trying to scam me again. He already showed with the first item he is using multiple usernames.

My question is, how was he able to make a purchase if I added China to my exclusion list?

Can I cancel using "problem with buyer's address"? If they leave negative feedback could this be removed?

I'm pretty much sure it's the same scammer so I just want to cancel and not deal with this... 

[or_couture]

You're right, it's eBay who deleted the account, they disclosed it.

[or_couture]

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@autovat wrote:

Just to let people know, the zip code for this area was 97230 but USPS changed in over a year ago to 97251.

We use a freight forwarding company in the same area, and have noticed that sometimes when checking tracking, some packages will still show delivered to the 97230 zip code.  All the shipping companies are not on the same page.

I can't comment on the other issues, but just wanted to let people know that the zip code discrepancy in not some elaborate scam.   The shipping companies just need an update.

---

Are you sure about that? Buyer could still show his CC company that the shipping address was 97251 and package was delivered to 97230. They won't check what change USPS did or did not do. But I believe eBay will.

At any case, if USPS made that change it's beyond me why packages would show delivered to the 97230 zipcode to begin with. Maybe it's because it was signed at the post office. 

[or_couture]

We use a freight forwarding company in the same area, and have noticed that sometimes when checking tracking, some packages will still show delivered to the 97230 zip code.  All the shipping companies are not on the same page.

I can't comment on the other issues, but just wanted to let people know that the zip code discrepancy in not some elaborate scam.   The shipping companies just need an update.

[dbfolks166mt]

     There have been a couple of posts about some FF's getting their own separate zip code due to the ecommerce state tax laws. Since the item is going to a foreign buyer who will pay the VAT or consumption tax for their particular country, along with any custom charges the buyer should not have to pay sales tax simply because the FF is in a particular US state. I believe somebody mentioned that Florida has given several FF's their own zip codes and those companies don't have to collect or charge sales tax. Whether eBay is factoring this into their calculations is hard to say. I ship internationally through the GSP/GSC in Kentucky and I now they don't charge sales tax when they send the buyer the invoice. 

[ittybitnot]

My question is, how was he able to make a purchase if I added China to my exclusion list?

@or_couture 

Because they are using a US shipping address.  You are shipping to Oregon, not China.  eBay allows this so that international buyers can  bid/buy from sellers who do not wish to ship internationally, and essentially bypass any exclusions the seller may use. .  With PayPal, one could select to NOT accept payments from payment sources out of the US.  The buyers could bid but NOT pay so the seller was not required to ship. 

With managed payments there are no such options for a seller. 

[or_couture]

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@ittybitnot wrote:

My question is, how was he able to make a purchase if I added China to my exclusion list?

@or_couture 

Because they are using a US shipping address.  You are shipping to Oregon, not China.  eBay allows this so that international buyers can  bid/buy from sellers who do not wish to ship internationally, and essentially bypass any exclusions the seller may use. .  With PayPal, one could select to NOT accept payments from payment sources out of the US.  The buyers could bid but NOT pay so the seller was not required to ship. 

With managed payments there are no such options for a seller. 

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eBay wording confused me "When you apply your shipping exclusions, we'll block buyers whose primary shipping address is in a location you don't ship to." I thought it meant one's main registered shipping address (your primary). so if the user is based in China, the block should work, regardless where the current shipping address is to. But I may have read this wrong.

[dbfolks166mt]

     There have been multiple discussions about the loophole and the use of FF's. The problem is eBay checks the ship to address against the sellers exclusion list. It does not use the buyers registered account address. Even if you sell domestically only any foreign buyer using a US based FF can still purchase your items. As a seller if I do not with to sell or ship internationally that should be my choice. 

     While eBay does offer some exclusions in the MBG for buyers using FF's those policies become irrelevant when the buyer files a chargeback and eBay is for the most part out of the decision making process regarding the claim. The loophole has cause me issues on a couple of occasions and I do sell internationally. 

[or_couture]

Just fyi when you reply to a payment dispute eBay gives you an option to upload only *one* file and jpg/jpeg format only. I had 2 PDF's ready and had to edit them into one PDF then convert to a JPEG..

[wastingtime101]

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@or_couture wrote:

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we'll block buyers whose primary shipping address is in a location you don't ship to." I thought it meant one's main registered shipping address (your primary). so if the user is based in China, the block should work, regardless where the current shipping address is to. 

---

eBay stores several addresses:

• Registered Address
• Shipping Address
• Return Address
• Ship-From Address

The block works on the primary shipping address, not the buyer's registered address. You can store 5 shipping addresses and all that matters is the one chosen as a default shipping address. The registration address / buyer location does not matter with shipping blocks.

You asked if you could cancel the sale citing problem with address. Did you put the first buyer on your blocked list? If the answer to that is yes, and you suspect this is the same buyer, then you can report the buyer to eBay for circumventing your block (report both IDs) and cancel the second sale using problem with address. Don't forget to block the second ID and all those other IDs that messaged you about the product.

[or_couture]

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@wastingtime101 wrote:

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@or_couture wrote:

---

we'll block buyers whose primary shipping address is in a location you don't ship to." I thought it meant one's main registered shipping address (your primary). so if the user is based in China, the block should work, regardless where the current shipping address is to. 

---

eBay stores several addresses:

• Registered Address
• Shipping Address
• Return Address
• Ship-From Address

The block works on the primary shipping address, not the buyer's registered address. You can store 5 shipping addresses and all that matters is the one chosen as a default shipping address. The registration address / buyer location does not matter with shipping blocks.

You asked if you could cancel the sale citing problem with address. Did you put the first buyer on your blocked list? If the answer to that is yes, and you suspect this is the same buyer, then you can report the buyer to eBay for circumventing your block (report both IDs) and cancel the second sale using problem with address. Don't forget to block the second ID and all those other IDs that messaged you about the product.

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@wastingtime101 Yes that is exactly what I did. Blocked the first, reported both, cancelled and blocked and reported the second. I blocked all the others few days ago as well. The second just msged me asking "Excuse me, why did you cancel? My address is true" but I don't think there's a point even in replying, right? They know very well what they did/doing. Would you reply?

[wastingtime101]

The last time something like that happened to me, I alerted CS via FaceBook and asked them to file the reports on both IDs for circumventing the block since there is no option within the website reporting for BBL circumvention. CS filed reports on the IDs and confirmed they would remove any neg FB resulting from the cancellation.

When the buyer messaged asking why their order was cancelled I told them that eBay advised me to cancel the order. I apologized for any inconvenience and let them know if they had questions they should contact CS directly.

You can handle the situation in different ways. The above method worked well for me.