Chinese buyer w/zero feedback purchases to a forwarding address, then opens a charge back

[or_couture]

Hey,

So I've had a Chinese buyer purchasing a high priced item to the following freight forwarder service in OR:

15617 NE Airport Way
Portland OR 97251

Purchase was made last weekend, before that I suddenly got multiple msgs from 'various' Chinese 'buyers' inquiring about the price of the item - all but one were new users with 0 feedback. I suspected it was the same person and regardless, gave everyone the same answers. I adjust the price and another 'new' user with 0 feedback purchases the item - not any of the users who had been corresponding with me.

I shipped right away on Monday, item was delivered few days later. eBay deleted his account as well.

They didn't contact me about the transaction, I just noticed by myself it was deleted. I didn't upload tracking cause the entire thing didn't 'smell' right, I was going to do so after delivery. And sure enough - on Wednesday the 'buyer' opens a charge back outside eBay and says he tried to contact me to cancel (buyer never reached out - maybe cause his account was deleted?) and since the item wasn't shipped, allegedly, he wants a refund.

I will obviously challenge this and upload tracking/proof of delivery - but is it possible I'll be left without the item and out of the funds? The whole thing is bizarre, not the freight forwarding service itself (although that address is associated with few scams), but the way I was approached by multiple new zero feedback users, then another one buys, then the account is deleted and now a charge back.

Can a deleted account be instated? Can he lose the charge back case and then claim something else and try to return (it's a final sale item)? Thanks

[or_couture]

I used USPS and it was signed for in the USPS post office at 4048 ne 122nd ave portland or 97230 - that is the address I have at the proof of delivery PDF.

[wastingtime101]

Did the dispute give you the opportunity to upload a supporting document to show signature confirmation, or were you limited to entering the tracking number?

[ittybitnot]

If that policy changed it would be nice if eBay could confirm it.

@wastingtime101 

Actually, I had it as a question for the next weekly chat.  Unfortunately, it won't be this week because they posted a specific "subject matter":  Trading cards. 

That policy is NOT in effect that I can tell.  Just go to the buyer board and search "fake tracking scam" (sort by date), and see that the tracking numbers are entered by the seller only when an eBay case is filed by the buyer for INR. Buyers lose since there is tracking that says "delivered".  Sometimes buyers are losing even if the seller has not uploaded the tracking to the case (perhaps called it in to eBay), because "the seller provided proof of delivery".    The automated system and low tier CS, deny buyers based on any tracking.  It doesn't matter if the tracking was originated before the buyer even purchased the item, OR if it was delivered to an address in Texas when the buyer lives in Maine, or if it was for a 10lb. parcel when the buyer purchased an item that was only 3 ounces. 

It appears buyers have a money back guarantee UNLESS they are a victim of the fake tracking scam.  Their only redress is to contact eBay reps that man the FBook link I provided to the OP.  It used to be that the buyer would be required to provide written documentation from the carrier that the parcel was "not delivered" to them.  

Now that anyone on the planet is able to see the origin/size/weight/and delivery street address  for carriers other than USPS,  buyers that are given FedEx or UPS tracking numbers have less of a problem getting documentation of being scammed.  

That is why I asked the OP what carrier they used.  If it was FedEx, UPS, etc. They could check to see if the parcel was ever re-directed at any point that would account for the different zipcode. 

[wastingtime101]

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@ittybitnot wrote:

Actually, I had it as a question for the next weekly chat.  Unfortunately, it won't be this week because they posted a specific "subject matter":  Trading cards. 

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Last time they had a dedicated topic chat, @ittybitnot, they answered "off-topic" questions after the chat. That leaves no opportunity to ask a follow up unless you carry it over into the general forum.

[ittybitnot]

I used USPS and it was signed for in the USPS post office at 4048 ne 122nd ave portland or 97230

@or_couture 

Just offhand, it looks like since signature was required, someone from the forwarder had to go to the PO to pick it up.  The "delivery" zip is that of the physical post office building.   If you get denied, keep that in mind.   Is there any indication of that in the tracking history on the USPS site?  of a parcel redirect?

The same requirements for seller protection are in effect for "doesn't recognize the charge" payment disputes as well.  In the past, these were the easiest to 'win' as a seller.  Now for some reason we are seeing many cases where they are NOT prevailing in these disputes regardless of what the seller protection policy states.  Though not as frequent, seller's are inexplicably losing the INRs as well.  

You be sure to come back here when all is said and done. 

[or_couture]

Yes there will be an opportunity to upload a doc. I'll upload proof of delivery with explanation about the zipcode and address being the local USPS post office.

[irca-7889]

If  a buyer has zero feedback and the shipping address is suspicious. Do not ship. Contact ebay right away to confirm as they have way to know if the buyer is fraud. They will target sellers that are new as they will see your feedback score. Be careful. 

[ittybitnot]

Yes there will be an opportunity to upload a doc. 

@or_couture 

Don't forget to upload the SIGNATURE.   They used to not have that option on the dispute form, even though you  were required to upload a copy of the signature  (typical eBay move).   Glad to know they are including the upload window now.   

[or_couture]

Yes, the USPS proof of delivery page includes the signature. I checked with eBay and there will an opportunity to upload one doc so I will compile the USPS PDF (including the signature) with a PDF of mine with few explanations into one doc and upload it.

[dbfolks166mt]

Remember that the signature receipt you are going to get is the one from the freight forwarder when they receive the package not from the actual buyer when it gets to China. 

[dbfolks166mt]

     There is a high probability that eBay did not delete the account and that the buyer did so immediately after he/she paid for it. Hard to say either way since eBay is never going to release that information. 

[dbfolks166mt]

     What may the determining factor here is how the CC company looks at the delivery information compared to the buyers registered address on their CC account. I would be willing to bet the billing address on their CC is not the freight forwarder and the proof of delivery and signature you have is from the FF. EBay's MBG policies regarding the use of FF's have little to no influence on the CC companies decision. 

     What may happen is you loose the chargeback but eBay refunds you out of their own pocket based on the delivery and signature confirmation you have regarding the FF. I have seen a couple of postings where this has actually happened but it's hard to say how long eBay will continue to do that. 

     There are a number of countries that I will not sell or ship to and China, Russia and the rest of the FSU are at the top of that list. 

[wastingtime101]

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@dbfolks166mt wrote:

     What may the determining factor here is how the CC company looks at the delivery information compared to the buyers registered address on their CC account. I would be willing to bet the billing address on their CC is not the freight forwarder and the proof of delivery and signature you have is from the FF. EBay's MBG policies regarding the use of FF's have little to no influence on the CC companies decision. 

     What may happen is you loose the chargeback but eBay refunds you out of their own pocket based on the delivery and signature confirmation you have regarding the FF. I have seen a couple of postings where this has actually happened but it's hard to say how long eBay will continue to do that. 

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This is why I was meant above when I said the OP may not win the CC dispute. The CC might look at the buyer's registered address and not care what the address was on the order. Because they didn't have tracking uploaded to the transaction before now, it's possible eBay wouldn't cover them if they lost. That part is unclear.

Since the buyer is NARU and the seller had sig conf to a FF, I think the OP should be proactive about contacting eBay CS on facebook to go over the situation.

I hope it all works out for the OP and that they come back here when they have updates to share.

[fab_finds4u]

WRONG. 

If eBay knows the "buyer is fraud" they would've removed him.

eBay is going to tell you if they paid you're obligated to ship to the address on the order details.

However, if he seller doesn't  want International buyers it's their right not to be in a transaction with one.  If they don't  want to ship to freight forwarding  address it's their right to cancel using problem with address.

[soh.maryl]

Not sure how it plays out in your particular scenario, but I believe that address belongs to a freight forwarder.

Buyers in other countries often use freight forwarders if/when the seller limits his selling to the US.

There is nothing wrong or illegal about it.  And it would be logical for a Chinese buyer to use one on the west coast.  

To the best of my knowledge, in the case of a freight forwarder, the seller is only required to get the package to the freight forwarder's address.  After that, if something goes wrong, or buyer does not receive his purchase, then it's the FF''s problem, not the seller's.