Buyer threatening to sue.. input needed please

[abbylilyd]

Sold a watch 40 days ago. 7 days after delivery The buyer said that the watch wasn’t working I expressed my concern and I was surprised because it was working fine when I packed it everything was very cordial I agreed to pay a portion of the cost of repairing.. but didn’t specify or agree to how much. buyer said they were going to get an estimate I asked for a copy of the estimate received it two weeks later it was $280 and the work had already been done. One reason I asked for the estimate was because I have a family jeweler and I wanted Her to take a look at what they were going to do and what it was going to cost my family jeweler was not going to charge me at all I explained this to the buyer and explained that I was shocked that it would be repaired without my consent with such a hefty price tag ..and said I wasn’t comfortable paying 180( that’s how much was demanded) when I never agreed to that amount nor was given an alternate option..now the buyer who is an attorney is threatening to sue me for the cost of the watch the cost of the repair and all of the legal fees this buyer lives in another state and is claiming I will have to come to their state for court. eBay says they have no case. PayPal says the same. Thoughts?

[mam98031]

---

@wesk_36 wrote:

---

@abbylilyd wrote:

She said she would file in Travis county, which is in Austin. I live in Oakland County, which is in Michigan. And I’m sorry but I am you mentioned that it’s threatening unless I do something that she wants me to do well she wanted me to refund her for repairs I never authorized and when I said I’m not comfortable paying that amount that’s when she threatened to sue me

---

If she filed in your state, no problem legally, but she wouldn't due to the expense and time involved for her, so she filed in her state of residence, Texas.

The buyer cannot just sue someone in her resident state of Texas that doesn't live in her state, and doesn't do business in her state, without the court having personal jurisdiction.

She can file papers for a lawsuit with the clerk, as a county clerk isn't in a position to judge any legality of the filing, and the clerk would accept the filing, but that is not the court saying it's valid.

Having said that, a defendant normally has a certain amount of days after being served with a summons to file an answer or to object to jurisdiction. If you were actually served, then waiving objection is consenting to jurisdiction.

The courts would likely not have any reason to invoke "personal jurisdiction" over you because the "minimum contacts" criteria just doesn't fit. There are also state laws that prevent and limit a court's jurisdiction to prevent abuses like this.

"minimum contacts"--
You don't have a business in Texas, you don't have a business in Michigan that solicits business in Texas (like sending catalogs or calling potential customers, or advertising your business or products in Texas, or travelling to Texas to conduct/maintain your business...) and in fact, you don't have a business period (ie: a jewlery and watch business listing on ebay under a business account and or a brick and mortar store).

You also do not have "substantial connections" or "significant business activities" in Texas  nor are your contacts to Texas “systematic and continuous”.

You sold a watch thru a listing on ebay on a personal account. 

Intuitively, I think this is a partial refund ruse, given all that you have said, and the underhanded behavior of the buyer. You have already offered to have her return and refund, which she refused saying that she is keeping the watch, you tried to work with her and she became difficult, then says that she will to sue you. Pfffff!

What a winner you found!

Just my opinions.

---

Just another reason that this person doesn't sound like a real lawyer.  I know the OP said they researched it and they are, but the buyer may just have the same name as a real lawyer in their area or they are a really bad lawyer from what they have said to the OP as much would never hold up in a court of law.

[directbuys2017]

You are getting alot of bad legal advice and opinions on this thread. Stop communicating with the buyer, place them on your blocked buyer list and move on with your E-Bay sales. They absolutely have to file any claims in your jurisdiction period. They could have just returned the watch when it didnt work. They are lying to you, watch was never broken, the hand written receipt says it all. Regardless of where they "file" the "lawsuit" they have no recourse in this case. You agreed to a written estimate, they went ahead and "repaired" the watch without your consent. P.S. they didn't repair the watch. Given the circumstances, you would win in a court case that your buyer will never initiate. Listen to Pay Pal and E-Bay and walk away. You are being scammed and shaken down for money, you will never be held liable for repairs to a watch that you did not authorize and even if you did authorize the repair you still wouldn't be held liable for the repair cost as it was not a part of the initial "contract".  Return for refund if not satisfied was the contract, anything beyond that is not legally binding. Again, you are being scammed, stop communicating and wait for the court summons to arrive in the mail lol Think about it, what do you have to lose at this point, if they win a court case, in your jurisdiction, (which they won't) you will only be liable for the initial cost of the watch after it has been returned to you by the bailiff in front of the judge. You will then have a fully repaired watch that you can now resell (again not going to happen) BTW, unlike what one poster told you, if you buy a used car and the transmission fails two days later they are not entitled to return the vehicle or force the seller to pay for the repairs, it is the responsibility of the buyer to make sure the car is in working order prior to purchase.  Unless the seller knew that the transmission was bad and told the buyer it was in perfect condition there is no recourse and good luck convincing a judge that the transmission was bad prior to purchase.

[a_c_green]

---

@mam98031 wrote:

---

@abbylilyd wrote:

S:Oh no! Is there movement on the battery when wound? Underneath..

B:No unfortunately

S:I haven’t heard from you ... (hoping that’s a good sign 😀) have you replaced the battery!

B:Hi I took it to my jeweler it’s running but the arms are broken so they don’t move. I’m waiting on their estimate to fix it.

[...]

In the future I'd steer clear of doing this.  It gives you less exposure as a seller.

---

In particular, that specific exchange above left me scratching my head. That Gucci watch doesn't have a battery; it predates the quartz era, and its transparent backing clearly shows a windup movement. I don't understand what "movement on the battery when wound" is referring to.

As for the buyer, "it's running but the arms are broken so they don't move" makes no sense either. The arms are directly attached to the geared movement. It's either running or it isn't. 

The most likely reason for an actual problem, if one exists, could be that the buyer overwound it and the mainspring coils are tightly bound up against each other. Thus the escapement isn't ticking because the mainspring isn't even trying to unwind (which powers the mechanism). A routine cleaning by a jeweler will probably get it going just fine (if there really is a problem in the first place), but this is something that the seller should do after the watch is returned; it's not something that the buyer should undertake, then attempt to stick the seller with a real or purported bill for it.

If emails are still going back and forth, just boil down future replies to one line: "Please return it for a full refund." That's all. Ignore the pseudo-legal bluster and especially don't try to respond to it. Just repeat the one-line reply above if the buyer files an actual dispute. You do not need to refund anything before it is returned to you, although you do need to respond where indicates if the buyer does file a return request.

[vintagecraze50]

Yes indeed, this lawyer is not acting like she should to handle this situation appropriately. In my opinion, she is out of line and needs to return the watch for a refund or eat the costs SHE/HE put into to it.

[abbylilyd]

Thank you everyone. This has been a stressful week for sure. I really have just resigned myself to the fact that I did everything that I was supposed to do ..in fact more than I should have by even entertaining conversation past her refusing to return it. I have not heard from her since. if I do my reply will be please return it for a refund and that will be all no more no less. I pride myself on being a compassionate helpful communicative seller but I now see that that can hurt me so I need to find a happy medium. Great Advice and guidance  given here ( maybe not some advice was great but still helpful) it’s great to see all different points! Happy holidays everybody and thank you for helping clear my conscience of this because although I know that I didn’t do anything wrong something like this still eats at you.. I am free now! 🎄☃️

[vintagecraze50]

Praying for your protection and peace. Best Wishes. 

[abbylilyd]

And I yours.. ty. ❤️

[mam98031]

---

@abbylilyd wrote:

Thank you everyone. This has been a stressful week for sure. I really have just resigned myself to the fact that I did everything that I was supposed to do ..in fact more than I should have by even entertaining conversation past her refusing to return it. I have not heard from her since. if I do my reply will be please return it for a refund and that will be all no more no less. I pride myself on being a compassionate helpful communicative seller but I now see that that can hurt me so I need to find a happy medium. Great Advice and guidance  given here ( maybe not some advice was great but still helpful) it’s great to see all different points! Happy holidays everybody and thank you for helping clear my conscience of this because although I know that I didn’t do anything wrong something like this still eats at you.. I am free now! 🎄☃️

---

Just set this aside and move on to more important things.  Like family and friends.  This is such a wonderful time of the year, don't let Scrooge control this magical time of year for you.  Then she would be stealing far more from you.  Don't give her that power.

We are all here for you if anything happens. 

[ubcensored]

You must make an attempt to "make her whole".  Ebay has a perfectly sound solution to this. It's called a refund. 

Contact ebay via phone.  Let their process protect you both. 

[mam98031]

---

@ubcensored wrote:

You must make an attempt to "make her whole".  Ebay has a perfectly sound solution to this. It's called a refund. 

Contact ebay via phone.  Let their process protect you both. 

---

@ubcensored 

NO.  This isn't accurate for the specifics of the problem the OP has.  Ebay does not require sellers to process a return that is past 30 days.  And this one will well over 45 days.  

But even with that said, the buyer has already said that they will not return the item.  Did you review the specifics of the seller's issues with this buyer?

[sin-n-dex]

---

@abbylilyd wrote:

Here’s the convo leading up to the estimate B is buyer. S is me

B:Hi I love the watch but I can’t get it to work? I wound it clockwise with the crown in the 0 position - is there a trick to it? Thanks!

S:Oh no! Is there movement on the battery when wound? Underneath..

B:No unfortunately

S:I haven’t heard from you ... (hoping that’s a good sign 😀) have you replaced the battery!

B:Hi I took it to my jeweler it’s running but the arms are broken so they don’t move. I’m waiting on their estimate to fix it.

S:I don’t get it... it was working fine... then I stored it prior to listing. The only thing I can think of is one of my kids was playing in my office. So disappointing! Please let me know as soon as you find out what it will cost. I am SO sorry

B:It’s going to be 260 to fix 😞 I want to keep it but it’s going to be an insanely expensive watch by the end of this. Is there any way you can refund any of what I paid??

S:260? Wow....wow...i am shocked. I want to work with you...what are you thinking?

Could you refund 160?Then I’d only be paying $600 for it instead of $760.

S:Hey there I just saw this message I'm sorry I missed it yesterday! Is there any way you can provide me with a copy of the estimate and or outline of work that needs to be done? This in no way means that i do not believe what your telling me is true..not at all. I also have a watch guy here and he is curious about the work..not the price, he doesn't think the figure is out of bounds, if its a mechanical..i thought it was battery ( shows how much i know) but also just for piece of mind, i would like to see estimate if it isn't to much trouble for you?

B:No problem I gave it to my jeweler (Kruger’s diamond jewelers in Austin) and their watch guy is repairing it. I just emailed them to have them send me a copy of the estimate.

I received handwritten estimate many days later . To which I responded... I was uncomfortable with the amount she requested because I could have had it repaired myself for much less. Then it got.. testy

---

What you would be doing is giving a $160 (32%) discount because the watch doesn't work. It doesn't read to me like you're 100 % sure it was still working when you shipped it and I'm not inclined to believe she is lying when she says it doesn't work based on this post. 

If you aren't 100% sure it was working which seems to be the case based on what you said to her, wouldn't a 32% discount be a good way to rid yourself of this problem?

This could have been avoided if you replied first "I'm really sorry about this I'll send you a label to return it for a full refund."

C.

[turquoisetulips]

---

@inhawaii wrote:

I am also an attorney. I also do part time work as a commercial airline pilot and a male underwear model.  😃

---

  Attorney  my foot !! The OP need not worry  . In any case   I would  have my uncle who is a supreme court justice  just  overturn  it ..  🙂   Tulips 

[tellmemama]

If I sell you a car... and tell you it works. Then, you find out after purchase that the transmission has problems, and I refuse to refund your money or take it back. You can absolutely have the vehicle repaired and you can absolutely take me to court to recover your costs in doing so. A judge will agree, BTW. 

Not even a little bit.  All vehicles are sold "as is" unless the seller offers a written warranty.  Now if I didn't perform my due diligence by having a mechanic look at the car before I bought it, any and all repairs are on me (again unless there is a warranty).  Your saying "it works" is called puffing.  Like saying it was only driven by a little old lady on Sundays to the Piggly Wiggly.

It gets a little gray area if there is major damage which you knew about but didn't disclose but in general  no court is going to undo the deal or hold you responsible for the repair costs.  The ONLY exception is if the car cannot be registered due to bad title in which case cannot be used for the intended purpose of being a method of transportation.

Oh and as far as the OP saying s/he would consider paying for part of the watch repairs?  Had the buyer submitted a timely repair bill and then the OP agreed to pay half, this would be a totally different argument and the OP would be on the hook.  As it stands now?  Well that also wouldn't hold up in court because there clearly was no meeting of the minds so the offer cannot be enforced.  

Somebody needs to watch a little more Judge Judy.  Or I need to watch less.

<edit:spelling>

[rustydalmatian]

He's not a real attorney......but he plays one on ebay.

[mam98031]

---

@sin-n-dex wrote:

---

@abbylilyd wrote:

Here’s the convo leading up to the estimate B is buyer. S is me

B:Hi I love the watch but I can’t get it to work? I wound it clockwise with the crown in the 0 position - is there a trick to it? Thanks!

S:Oh no! Is there movement on the battery when wound? Underneath..

B:No unfortunately

S:I haven’t heard from you ... (hoping that’s a good sign 😀) have you replaced the battery!

B:Hi I took it to my jeweler it’s running but the arms are broken so they don’t move. I’m waiting on their estimate to fix it.

S:I don’t get it... it was working fine... then I stored it prior to listing. The only thing I can think of is one of my kids was playing in my office. So disappointing! Please let me know as soon as you find out what it will cost. I am SO sorry

B:It’s going to be 260 to fix 😞 I want to keep it but it’s going to be an insanely expensive watch by the end of this. Is there any way you can refund any of what I paid??

S:260? Wow....wow...i am shocked. I want to work with you...what are you thinking?

Could you refund 160?Then I’d only be paying $600 for it instead of $760.

S:Hey there I just saw this message I'm sorry I missed it yesterday! Is there any way you can provide me with a copy of the estimate and or outline of work that needs to be done? This in no way means that i do not believe what your telling me is true..not at all. I also have a watch guy here and he is curious about the work..not the price, he doesn't think the figure is out of bounds, if its a mechanical..i thought it was battery ( shows how much i know) but also just for piece of mind, i would like to see estimate if it isn't to much trouble for you?

B:No problem I gave it to my jeweler (Kruger’s diamond jewelers in Austin) and their watch guy is repairing it. I just emailed them to have them send me a copy of the estimate.

I received handwritten estimate many days later . To which I responded... I was uncomfortable with the amount she requested because I could have had it repaired myself for much less. Then it got.. testy

---

What you would be doing is giving a $160 (32%) discount because the watch doesn't work. It doesn't read to me like you're 100 % sure it was still working when you shipped it and I'm not inclined to believe she is lying when she says it doesn't work based on this post. 

If you aren't 100% sure it was working which seems to be the case based on what you said to her, wouldn't a 32% discount be a good way to rid yourself of this problem?

This could have been avoided if you replied first "I'm really sorry about this I'll send you a label to return it for a full refund."

C.

---

Why would the OP need to give the buyer a discount / refund / rebate of any kind?  The OP offered to take the return for a full refund, the buyer refuses. 

The buyer isn't going to file a Request for Return, not just because they are well past the 30 days allowed in Ebay, but because the buyer doesn't want to return the item.

The buyer isn't likely to file a case in PP for the same reason.  They don't want to return the item.  

Even if the buyer was able to file a case in either Ebay or PP, neither would force the seller to give a partial refund.  

So why would the seller return some money to the buyer?