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Buyer opened up a video game system then asked for refund

The buyer opened up the video game system saying it wasn't modded which was not said in any of the description. He reported it in his refund message that he opened up the system to check if its modded when it wasn't. Ebay won't side with me and told me to contact the buyer to make him cancel the refund 

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Re: Buyer opened up a video game system then asked for refund


@rolenboy01 wrote:

of course have heard of false SNAD's but you shouldn't get to change your mind after opening an item to look for things that were never said to be there in the first place, for all we know he stole pieces off the board or broke off capacitors out of spite or god knows what else, the scratches are an excuse we know this but some seem to believe that was really his "true reason" for returning the item and we know it is not, he some how got it his mind something was included that was not that is "Demanding additional items or services that are outside of what is contained in the listing" in my book.


 

Ahh... but you see, here's the thing. eBay does not care if the unit is returned to OP in working condition! They only care that it was shipped back, and that the buyer is unsatisfied for the reason stated in the SNAD claim. If that's the case, then he could potentially shove the return down OP's throat. And like you said, the easiest way for OP to tell if it still works is to stick a game in it! That's what the kids at GameStop would do if you walked in there and attempted to trade it in.

 

The bottom line is, our seller has no reason to get distracted by the whole debate of whether it's ethical to open a video game console. His problem is the SNAD claim.

 

I'm telling you as a collector and player of video games since the Atari 2600, and as an engineer formally trained in electronics, that opening the case does not matter in this dispute. Others may disagree.. but eBay is not going to entertain the argument. It either arrived scratched or it didn't... but the original listing shows no scratches.

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Re: Buyer opened up a video game system then asked for refund


@omgitlightsup wrote:

@rolenboy01 wrote:

of course have heard of false SNAD's but you shouldn't get to change your mind after opening an item to look for things that were never said to be there in the first place, for all we know he stole pieces off the board or broke off capacitors out of spite or god knows what else, the scratches are an excuse we know this but some seem to believe that was really his "true reason" for returning the item and we know it is not, he some how got it his mind something was included that was not that is "Demanding additional items or services that are outside of what is contained in the listing" in my book.


 

Ahh... but you see, here's the thing. eBay does not care if the unit is returned to OP in working condition! They only care that it was shipped back, and that the buyer is unsatisfied for the reason stated in the SNAD claim. If that's the case, then he could potentially shove the return down OP's throat. And like you said, the easiest way for OP to tell if it still works is to stick a game in it! That's what the kids at GameStop would do if you walked in there and attempted to trade it in.

 

The bottom line is, our seller has no reason to get distracted by the whole debate of whether it's ethical to open a video game console. His problem is the SNAD claim.

 

I'm telling you as a collector and player of video games since the Atari 2600, and as an engineer formally trained in electronics, that opening the case does not matter in this dispute. Others may disagree.. but eBay is not going to entertain the argument. It either arrived scratched or it didn't... but the original listing shows no scratches.


eBay has already entertained the argument, I don't understand what you are trying to achieve here if someone buys a video game console from me and opens it for any reason I do not consider it to be in the same condition I shipped out in, I don't care if you are an engineer or joe nobody off the street there was no reason to open the item and opening it means it's been altered in my eyes.

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Re: Buyer opened up a video game system then asked for refund

Anonymous
Not applicable

@omgitlightsup wrote:

@rolenboy01 wrote:

of course have heard of false SNAD's but you shouldn't get to change your mind after opening an item to look for things that were never said to be there in the first place, for all we know he stole pieces off the board or broke off capacitors out of spite or god knows what else, the scratches are an excuse we know this but some seem to believe that was really his "true reason" for returning the item and we know it is not, he some how got it his mind something was included that was not that is "Demanding additional items or services that are outside of what is contained in the listing" in my book.


 

Ahh... but you see, here's the thing. eBay does not care if the unit is returned to OP in working condition!

Ahh.... but you see, here's the thing.  eBay may not care if the unit is returned to the OP in working condition, but they do care if the buyer admits they have done something that may have caused the unit to be no longer in working condition.  If the OP can explain that the unit has been tampered with and the buyer has admitted that, they still could win that SNAD.  If the OP can explain that the buyer admittedly was expecting something not included in the listing, they still could win that SNAD.

 

The proof is in the pudding.  I don't have to know how the units work or anything else about the unit that seems to make others expert on children's games.  I don't need to know if it is ethical for the buyer to have opened the unit or if the unit is actually scratched.  What I do know is what it takes to win a SNAD and I'm telling the OP they have a chance.  And again, the OP can do with that information as they please.  Roll over and accept the SNAD or use the information the buyer has provided to fight it.  We are talking about a $40.00 22 year old child's toy here, only the OP can decide if it is worth the time and effort.

 

PS, the OP's error may have been in using the term.... Opened the game system.  The term should be... disassembled.

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Re: Buyer opened up a video game system then asked for refund

Well, I think the important thing here is 1: to not wallow in the fallacious belief that, because one removes the back of something that it's ruined or permanently altered. Having bought and sold a lot of those things here and elsewhere, I know from experience that it's always a good idea to at least look inside if you have a chance. Not that the seller or buyer feel that way, or aware of the risks and hazards... but it's still true. 

 

And 2: all participants should come away from this with a lesson. Like, "good photographs are paramount," for example. Or "clarify before bidding whether this is the item I want to buy." Had the photos been clearer, the buyer would have seen any alleged scratches. And judging from his responses, I doubt his take-away was "I can ignore good listing practices and rely on buyers' mistakes to make the sale stick." 


It was only much later that people started bickering over whether or not one should "take something apart" for any reason before returning it. OP admitted to taking it apart first, remember. There's a good chance his buyer might be even more knowledgeable than he is, and is following up on someone else's work. But it seems that some here just put the buyer in an inferior position by principle, which is just as bad as eBay's common practice of putting the seller's reputation on the block at the whim of the buyer.

 

Suppose for a moment the buyer took it apart and found that the repair work had been terribly botched, or that it was badly corroded because someone spilled Zima into it when the Broncos won the Super Bowl. Yeah, the seller could respond, "well, you pays your money and you takes your chances," but that's not necessarily what anyone would do. There's a difference between "resolving" a dispute and "winning" or "losing" a dispute. One approach leaves people bitter from the experience and the other does not.

 

I doubt either party would take the same exact approach if they had it to do again.

Message 49 of 59
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Re: Buyer opened up a video game system then asked for refund

They opened the item under false pretenses though, they had NO reason to believe the OP's work was going to be shotty and it's not even the reason they opened the item, they should have like I said used a game to test the item if it malfunctioned while they were doing so you may have a point but there has been absolutely no indication they ever tested the items function with a game, the seller could have had zero pictures or 500 it wouldn't have mattered, it's clear the buyer for some outlandish reason had it in their head something was to be included that was never indicated how are you supposed to account for someone's mental state when selling an item? We shouldn't be subject to someones delusions or wishful thinking as to what they "think" will be included.

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Re: Buyer opened up a video game system then asked for refund


@omgitlightsup wrote:

...Seriously: Is this the first time you guys have ever heard of a buyer changing his mind, and then finding an excuse to return it? 

 


It's still fraudulent.

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Re: Buyer opened up a video game system then asked for refund


@omgitlightsup wrote:

...The bottom line is, our seller has no reason to get distracted by the whole debate of whether it's ethical to open a video game console. His problem is the SNAD claim.

 

I'm telling you as a collector and player of video games since the Atari 2600, and as an engineer formally trained in electronics, that opening the case does not matter in this dispute. Others may disagree.. but eBay is not going to entertain the argument. It either arrived scratched or it didn't... but the original listing shows no scratches.


Since you are a "engineer formally trained in electronics", I'm sure you know that opening up external cases to get to the inside circuit board could easily render a device useless unless proper anti static procedures are followed. It's common to void factory warranties by opening a case, eBay wouldn't have it in their terms if it wasn't relevant.

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Re: Buyer opened up a video game system then asked for refund

Anonymous
Not applicable

@omgitlightsup wrote:

Well, I think the important thing here is 1: to not wallow in the fallacious belief that, because one removes the back of something that it's ruined or permanently altered.


I'm not "wallowing" in anything let alone a fallacious belief.  The item was disassembled, PERIOD.  It matters not whether is it ruined or permanently altered though it may have been.  Even if you are a master engineer on children's toys.

 

That's really all that is important.  The rest of your post, I didn't even read it.  The OP has a good chance of winning the SNAD by explaining to the CSR that the unit was disassembled.  They can do with that information as they please

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Re: Buyer opened up a video game system then asked for refund


@Anonymous wrote:
..The OP has a good chance of winning the SNAD by explaining to the CSR that the unit was disassembled.  They can do with that information as they please

Many a SNAD case has been won by seller's when a buyer admits to opening a sealed (non-serviceable) item, but it does take proof, persistence and a bit of luck.

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Re: Buyer opened up a video game system then asked for refund

Anonymous
Not applicable

@phcd1 wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:
..The OP has a good chance of winning the SNAD by explaining to the CSR that the unit was disassembled.  They can do with that information as they please

Many a SNAD case has been won by seller's when a buyer admits to opening a sealed (non-serviceable) item, but it does take proof, persistence and a bit of luck.


It does indeed.  I'm not even positive the OP will win, but if they get the right "Peggy" who grasps the words.... The buyer had admitted opening the unit, as in disassembling it... They should win.

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Re: Buyer opened up a video game system then asked for refund


@rolenboy01 wrote:

@ooak-tammy wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

@ooak-tammy wrote:
You don't disassemble a game system by opening it up. Disassembly is taking parts out of it, not just unscrewing the screws and checking what's beneath the hood, so to speak.
Do you consider having a battery put into a watch "disassembly" ? Of course not and this is the same thing. The game system was designed to be opened up.

@ooak-tammy

Last I checked, a watch doesn't have screws on it that have to be removed to get to the battery.  If you have to use tools to check what's beneath the hood, it is disassembly.  Using a handle to lift the hood is a whole lot different than using a tool to look at the thermostate.

 

I wanted to make certain I wasn't blow smoke out my.... erm um ears so I did a little bit of "research".  Opening a Sega Genisis to see if it is modded IS disassembly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpqEmDHwZTU

Starting at about 9:10 of the video

 

Saying that opening a sega genesis is like changing the battery of a watch is NOT comparable AT ALL.  I would compare it more to opening an iphone and changing the battery which is disassembly.

 

To the OP, make certain to not to describe this as "opening the game", since that just sounds like they lifted the hood.  You should win hands down.


If you ever have a watch battery installed, I suggest you watch what they do.  They need a TOOL to open the back of the watch.  Opening the back of your cell phone doesn't void the warrenty since you need to do that to put the battery in.  Most cell phones come witht he battery packaged seperately.

This is not an apple ipod that is sealed, it is a genesis game consol that is designed to be easily opened.  


You think someone should be able to buy a watch from you open it up and claim it doesn't have a modification to it that you never claimed it had in the first place and then return it on your dime? once someone opens something up for no apparent reason to look for something I never said was there in the first place I don't know if they've destroyed the item or not so I should not have to take it back, the only thing this buyer should have been doing is checking to see if the video game system worked as described they shouldn't be digging around for "extras" that were never said to be included.


They checked to see that it wasn't modified, saw all the changes the seller made to the machine, and wanted to return it.  The seller didn't divulge the parts he replaced.  SNAD.  The machine was modified by the seller, he admits it.

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Re: Buyer opened up a video game system then asked for refund


@Anonymous wrote:

@ooak-tammy wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

@ooak-tammy wrote:
You don't disassemble a game system by opening it up. Disassembly is taking parts out of it, not just unscrewing the screws and checking what's beneath the hood, so to speak.
Do you consider having a battery put into a watch "disassembly" ? Of course not and this is the same thing. The game system was designed to be opened up.

@ooak-tammy

Last I checked, a watch doesn't have screws on it that have to be removed to get to the battery.  If you have to use tools to check what's beneath the hood, it is disassembly.  Using a handle to lift the hood is a whole lot different than using a tool to look at the thermostate.

 

I wanted to make certain I wasn't blow smoke out my.... erm um ears so I did a little bit of "research".  Opening a Sega Genisis to see if it is modded IS disassembly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpqEmDHwZTU

Starting at about 9:10 of the video

 

Saying that opening a sega genesis is like changing the battery of a watch is NOT comparable AT ALL.  I would compare it more to opening an iphone and changing the battery which is disassembly.

 

To the OP, make certain to not to describe this as "opening the game", since that just sounds like they lifted the hood.  You should win hands down.


If you ever have a watch battery installed, I suggest you watch what they do.  They need a TOOL to open the back of the watch.  Opening the back of your cell phone doesn't void the warrenty since you need to do that to put the battery in.  Most cell phones come witht he battery packaged seperately.

This is not an apple ipod that is sealed, it is a genesis game consol that is designed to be easily opened.  


I haven't just watched a watch battery be installed, I've replaced many many of them since I sell them on another ID.  You do not need a special tool, any sharp object will do and that is just to pry the back off.  Opening a non-iphone to add a battery doesn't void your warranty, opening an iphone does.

 

The Genesis game consol was not DESIGNED to be easily opened, that is how things of this sort were built 22 years ago.  I'm certain when it was designed, engineers weren't anticipating people would be modifying it. 


  The only person modifying the game system under discussion was the seller, and he didn't divulge the modifications in the listing.

The consol was designed to be opened up easily with a screwdriver.  

By the way, using "any sharp object" will result in your watch being scratched and the back being damaged and not capable of staying in place.

Message 57 of 59
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Re: Buyer opened up a video game system then asked for refund

Anonymous
Not applicable

I guess we'll all just have to see how it plays out.

Message 58 of 59
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Re: Buyer opened up a video game system then asked for refund


@phcd1 wrote:

@omgitlightsup wrote:

...The bottom line is, our seller has no reason to get distracted by the whole debate of whether it's ethical to open a video game console. His problem is the SNAD claim.

 

I'm telling you as a collector and player of video games since the Atari 2600, and as an engineer formally trained in electronics, that opening the case does not matter in this dispute. Others may disagree.. but eBay is not going to entertain the argument. It either arrived scratched or it didn't... but the original listing shows no scratches.


Since you are a "engineer formally trained in electronics", I'm sure you know that opening up external cases to get to the inside circuit board could easily render a device useless unless proper anti static procedures are followed. It's common to void factory warranties by opening a case, eBay wouldn't have it in their terms if it wasn't relevant.


I do, and I hold several industry certifications in ESD protection. I am required to keep these certifications up to date. And again...  I assure you it's OK to take the back off of your GG and inspect the work done in it. Or look for battery goo or dried up Zima. Like I said, this is no more invasive than looking under a car's brake drum or inside the back panel of a clothes dryer.

 

Just be smart about it. Don't do it immediately after scuffing your new dress shoes over a carpet. Many people like to touch a grounded appliance first, which is a great idea. FYI: the components inside a computer/video game are most sensitive to ESD damage before they're installed in the circuit board. Which is why anyone doing actual work (i.e., desoldering) should only do so at a grounded workstation.

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