Buyer is scamming me with a empty box claim

[martianmoocow]

Hi eBay community,

Basically I sold a RTX 2060 for around $650, the buyer claimed the box was empty and even went to file a police report. I don't know if that even takes any time or effort in our day and age.  Case closed and the buyer was refunded and they get to keep my item.

Now I know this is a case of he said/she said, but lets just assume they are trying to scam me for the sake of the argument. Can I take them to small claims court, they literally live an hour away drive in the same state. I can probably get the USPS to provide some sort of weight scanning information that would basically counter their claim the box was empty. What are your suggestions/concerns/questions?

[tdumonde2014]

If you can get evidence from USPS showing the weight of the box and any other supporting documentation, then I would take them to small claims court. I would also file a Mail Fraud claim with USPS, might also help your cause, particularly if they turn something up.

[onlinecentral]

Case closed and the buyer was refunded...
You should have forced the buyer to file a return and send a package back to you, even if it was empty.

Here is some verbiage other sellers have sent to buyers. In some cases the buyer suddenly finds the merchandise. Then sends you a story about a family member opening the box first.

A) Thank you for your purchase, we are again sorry with the issues with USPS; We have filed a formal report with USPS and also with the local police concerning your empty parcel and will report back to you as soon as we know more. Thank you again!

B) I am so sorry to hear that your parcel arrived without the contents. I will do everything I can to assist you in this matter. I will file the lost/rifled/stolen mail report (the report is called something else now, you will have look this up for the correct name) with the United States Postal Inspectors on your behalf. Even in these trying times they usually respond with a case number within 24 hours. I will forward that to you when it is received so that you can track the progress of the investigation as well. Do you have a daytime phone number that I can include in the report? That way they can contact you directly as well.

I will also speak to your local postmaster and mail carrier about this package. If it had broken open, the USPS typically tags the box as such, so a photo of that stamp will actually help. Please keep the packing materials in case they are needed as well. Thank you so much for your cooperation.

New Buyer Claims She Received an Empty Package
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/quot-New-quot-buyer-claims-she-received-an-empty-package/td-p/...

Sold a $1500 graphics card; buyer says it was an empty box
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Sold-a-1500-graphics-card-buyer-says-it-was-an-empty-box/td-p/...

[sunking1]

This alone is why so many are turning their backs on eBay.  After all, eBay is doing just that to so many good and honest sellers. Turning their backs on us.

[vintagecraze50]

Yes, you can take them to small claims court but you will need to have some kind of evidence to support your claim that you  DID NOT sent them an empty box. Your best course is to do as one other poster stated and tell them you are going to investigate this claim through the postal servce. There you may be able to collect some evidence via weight of package etc.

[lagarto_electronico]

First, it is best NOT to sell expensive video cards on eBay under any circumstances unless your name is Newegg or Wal-Mart.

Criminals do not like to ask police to come to their homes to file police reports.  Often those police reports are completely fake (complete with numbers to burner phones that someone answers pretending to be cops) and are only accepted on faith by call center employees in third world countries. You will want to verify that police report and speak to the police department.

The buyer made zero effort to report the item tampered with, there was no indication that it was opened in transit in the photos (USPS uses special tape to mark boxes that were inspected), and there is weight inconsistency.  If the buyer really reported this to the police, we would expect the police to go through those factors before agreeing to incriminate an innocent person.

You could try small claims, but most likely you are dealing with a professional criminal using a relative's accounts that will never show up in court.

[katzrul15]

Did you file a mail fraud report with USPS?  I would start there.  I would also call to see if you can file a Police Report in whatever City/town this is.  

Mail Fraud (usps.com)

Use this link to report this to USPS

Internet Crime Complaint Center(IC3) | Home Page

File an IC3 complaint here.

Good luck - I would not think small claims court would work - your buyer is going to claim to be the "victim" of what occurred.  I would report this to the PD that is local and see if they can assist.  May not, but would still try.  Definitely report on the 2 links above.  Good luck!  (btw, save these report documentations, you will need them for your taxes to verify/claim the losses on Sch C)

[ittybitnot]

 and even went to file a police report.

@martianmoocow 

Do you have a copy of the "police report" used against you in this claim?  If not. see if you can get a copy from eBay for "insurance purposes".   To what city/state did you ship this item?  

Please read the following and let us know if any of this sounds familiar: 

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Obviously-fake-police-report-submitted-to-ebay-ebay-using-it-t...


https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Mail-fraud-in-Wilmington-DE/m-p/31754015#M1725817

In the first link above, the seller has a photo of the phony police report on a link at the bottom of the original post.

Start collecting screen shots and hard copies of all the transaction information and any correspondence with eBay.   Depending on your circumstances,  there are a few actions you can take. 

[gjs_16]

---

@martianmoocow wrote:

Hi eBay community,

Basically I sold a RTX 2060 for around $650, the buyer claimed the box was empty and even went to file a police report. I don't know if that even takes any time or effort in our day and age.  Case closed and the buyer was refunded and they get to keep my item.

Now I know this is a case of he said/she said, but lets just assume they are trying to scam me for the sake of the argument. Can I take them to small claims court, they literally live an hour away drive in the same state. I can probably get the USPS to provide some sort of weight scanning information that would basically counter their claim the box was empty. What are your suggestions/concerns/questions?

---

An hour's drive away, I know what I would be doing.

The problem with small claims is that it is a CIVIL case.

One possible course of action is to find out the legitimacy of that police report, and then finding out if the address actually belongs to that buyer (is it a residence?)... Because submitting counterfeit police reports have been a thing on eaby of late, and if that buyer actually does live an hour away and the police report is not real (easy to check, might even call the PD listed on the report) then you'd have CRIMINAL resource.

The difference between CIVIL and CRIMINAL is one involves jail (or at least the possibility).

Jail time means you'd have considerable leverage.

If the police report is fake, that is.

[duffy4444]

   This "box was empty" appears to be the latest scam that Ebay has GOT to do something about in order to give seller protection, if they don't want to eventually lose a massive amount of higher-value sales fees. Ebay could require photographic proof that the USPS itself marked the box as opened, for instance...

   This is one of the reasons why I never sell anything on Ebay with a value of over $80, unless it is for local pickup only. Otherwise I would recommend that you list your item on a local site like Craigs List, where you are in total control of the sale, the buyer has to show up in person with cash, inspects the item, pays for it and leaves with the understanding that it is "as is" and no refunds. You may have to wait longer for a sale, of course, but until Ebay tackles this scam, you won't be out both the money and the item.

Cheers, Duffy

[bettimoor-0]

Does the receipt that you have from the Post Office with a tracking number and the weight of the package not count as proof that you actually sent the item and not just a empty box?

[postingid7659]

If you can get the right proof it's a slam dunk case, but collecting on it is going to be another story.  You can make it follow their credit for 20 years, though, be sure to reaffirm the judgement at the 10 year mark.  

[ittybitnot]

Does the receipt that you have from the Post Office with a tracking number and the weight of the package not count as proof that you actually sent the item and not just a empty box?

@bettimoor-0 

With an "empty box" claim, the "weight" has no bearing on the buyer getting a full refund from the seller's proceeds.  Videos of the parcel being packed/shipped,  are not entertained by eBay as evidence of anything. The empty box claim only requires that the buyer say it came that way.  

As with any other sort of claim (other than item not received) what the buyer SAYS becomes the truth, even if it is not.  Just about anything for sale on eBay can be had for free with a fraudulent claim.  The empty box appears to be the fastest and easiest way to do it, and seems to be gaining in popularity as a result. 

[stainlessenginecovers]

Doesn't matter what you SENT, or what the WEIGHT was when you sent and/or the proof of handing a package and getting a receipt for the item when you shipped it;  Items are NOT weighed when they are delivered so in any small claims court, you would have no proof that the 'buyer' did NOT still receive an empty package.

There have been incidents where postal workers have stolen. Reasonable doubt right there. 

Since you probably have no signature proof of delivery that it actually went in the hands of the buyer, there's again no proof that the item was in the package. 

Bottom line; you have no case unless you can get the carrier in the court room as a witness that the package he delivered had something in it.

Lastly, ebay would NOT have sided with the buyer and refunded them had you responded to the case with the tracking number. Sounds like you did not respond to the 'return' case that they buyer filed. 

[sugarnspice777]

There is a lot of things it sounds like you did wrong. 

First, file a appeal.

First off, never let ebay handle a claim with calling.  You must talk to ebay, or a bot handles the claim.

Ask for the resolution department.  Ask them to check if this buyer has filed claims like this before.  Bet they have.   Ask them to go thru there messages for same type of scam.  Ask them to file a report on this buyer.

Ebay KNOWS this is a scam. But without contact with a live person, again, a bot will handle.  But you must talk to the resolution dept, if regular customer service won't transfer, keep calling until someone does.

You have to be very forceful with ebay.  

Never send a high value item without signature or insurance.  Since your close to his PO, file a postal fraud case at his PO.  Ask why would his carrier deliver a empty package.  Ask them to look up the image of this package at scan at his PO.  But, I would treat this as he is doing postal fraud. 

So when you talk to ebay, ask them why they decided he is being honest, and that you are not.  Or, why ebay is basically stating a mail person stole this out of the box, and delivered a empty package.  But, being you didn't get signature...regardless, calling them and asking the to check his case filing history, can or may at least help...if he has done this in the past.  Did you read thru his feedback from other sellers? Sometimes they leave underlying tips that he is stealing.  There is a lot you can do but, you have to really want it and work for it.