Buyer gets full refund AND keeps the guitar? And I'm left with nothing? Really?

[yngwiemalmsteen]

I sold a MINT Fender Stevie Ray Vaughan Stratocaster guitar on Ebay. I started the auction at only $1. Keep in mind these guitars sell new for $1,700. The buyer won the auction for about $1,125 plus $95 shipping. I had 12 detailed photos of the guitar on the ad and also a 5 minute up close video in the ad as well a link to youtube for them to see. I had only played the guitar less than a hour since buying it brand new a few weeks before so I know it was MINT.

The seller gets the guitar and then opens a dispute saying does not match the description because he said the pickguard had scratches on it that looked like it was scratched with sandpaper. There was no way that damage like that could have been caused in transit, impossible. I did not send him the guitar like that. He sent two photos and they were so up close and so much light shining on them that I could not really tell if it was scratched or if it was the normal grain pattern that a plastic pickguard naturally has.

I feel like he either has a case of buyers remorse or he is just a con artist scamming people on Ebay, although he does have 100% positive feedback over 500.

I talked to the buyer over the phone and he became very hostile towards me and he told me on the phone that if I didn't meet his demands he would damage the guitar further and send it back with even more damage just to spite me so that I wouldn't even be able to resell it again.

The next day I offered the buyer a partial refund of $20 for a new SRV pickguard because I seen that's what they had sold for in completed auctions recently. But that wasn't good enough for him, he wrote back saying he'd keep the guitar if I refunded him back $200, he said a pickguard from the factory would be $200, I wrote him back and let him know that's incorrect, a pickguard loaded with pickups and electronics may be $200 but all he would need is just the pickguard if it in fact was damaged. He still argued. So I called PayPal and they basically said I should try harder to work it out with the buyer, so th buyer told me he found a pickguard on Ebay for $99.99 and if I refund him back that amount he would be happy.

So I told him that would be ok with me to just get done with this hassle and headache. BUT, then the buyer came up with a new demand... He now all of a sudden days later says there was no keys in the case for the case! I advised him that my ad on ebay NEVER said anything about keys being included, however, I did actually include them.

I advised buyer that keys could be replaced for $10 or so and advised him where he could buy them, I also advised him that most guitar case keys are universal so keys from another case should work with this one.

But buyer said he went to guitar center and insists it will cost $110 to get another key and have a lock made for the key. I felt like that was ridiculous and that the buyer was trying to extort money from me. So I told him no deal, I will refund $99.99, nothing more.

So ebay gave him a full refund today.

I called Ebay about 4 times in the last few days, spent about 3 hours on the phone with them. They told me they were going to investigate the matter and that they will look at all evidence. But they did nothing. They just refun the buyer. They didn't listen to my side at all. The ebay rep also told me if the buyer didn't accept what I offered in our message that they would help me get a return label made because I told them I didn't know how to make one because when I tried the first time it asked me for dimensions and weight of the item and I don't have that information as the buyer has the guitar now.

Then they tell me they have no notes of any agent telling me that and that I should have understood the email they sent me better.

I told them that the buyer told me he would damage the guitar, and 1st ebay rep said don't worry it'd be taken care of but 2nd ebay rep said we have no way to take care of that. They said my only recourse is to file small claims case, call police etc. Police or internet fraud site won't care , I mean it's not gonna get me back the money or the guitar. Ebay is telling me I'm just out of luck that they have no way to make the buyer send the guitar back and that I will not be paid anything.

I called paypal and they said they can't help either since buyer filed dispute through ebay.

This is not some $50 cheap trinket, we are talking about a guitar I bought new for $1,700 and sold at a steal for $1,125+$95 shipping, and now the buyer and Ebay are ripping me off.

So this is REALLY happening?

I'm out the guitar AND the money? Buyer gets my guitar for free and I get NOTHING?

Ebay told me this morning I can file a appeal, but it all seems like lip serive to me. Hows a appeal going to help? I don't have any new evidence/info that wasn't already provided.

[futuretomorrow]

Furthermore, look at the date of the article and what eBay said it would do. Has that been done? No. Instead, what we see and hear about are increasing cases of buyer fraud. eBay doesn't want to invest in a long term solution, which is going to cost significantly more than just handling the few cases that pop up in the news, when they do.

So to be clear. The buyer may get this resolved through the media if they have the endurance and are principled based but DO NOT expect their solution to be the magic bullet that remedies this problem. eBay would have to end up in a major court with more exposure than they bargained for before fixing this across the board.

And I've told a few of you before that having worked for eBay like companies I know exactly why they keep these problems under the radar here. I was blown away the first time a strategist at a company suggested why the brand we worked on at the time create internal feedback.

It's to keep it out of the publics sight, meaning eBay does not have to resolve it. Use common sense. They keep removing communication channels and ease of use for sellers to buyers yet I'm to believe this board was created to accomplish what exactly? How many rants, articles and the like have led to significant change here? None. Things simply get worse.

Many of you waste your time here sharing stories and complaining but the stronger advice you need to act on is ignored. Most of you who don't speak up allowed this to happen to this seller by your lack of action. Think about that before responding to me because something about this case in particular has infuriated me. Maybe because I saw it coming and was paying enough attention to not list around $10,000 worth of tech equipment last weekend.

I'm not getting scammed here so you're free to take my ticket for the ride.

What have I done? I'm surprised eBay hasn't banned me from their platform already for my persistent harassment and exposure of their unfair an complicit support of criminal practices on more visible platforms. I know it's not because they weighed my suggestions they've used without paying me vs my dissenting voice against their unfair practices. Wake up people!!! What will it take for you to stop letting this platform abuse you?????

[orangehound]

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@bubbleman2010 wrote:

It happens with so much frequency anymore its not really news. Had the OP posted here once the buyer requested a return most folks here could have told them what the outcome would be for the path he chose to follow,but posters never believe anyone and go with ebays got our back....

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^^ This is so true it should cause all sellers to cry.

eBay has several internal policies that do not correspond to logic or common sense - and because they are not public, sellers such as the OP get abused over and over and over.

What's more, eBay customer service sometimes doesn't even know the policies, and they communicate false information that creates greater damage to sellers.   Of course, why should a new seller trust the veteran sellers on this board over eBay customer service, right?  I mean, you would think that both the policies of eBay would follow common sense and that the customer service representatives would give out accurate information (and be helpful) ... but neither is the case ... we see this story over and over again.

Seriously, eBay, you need to fix this problem ... if I, as a peon seller, know about the problem and how to fix it, surely the wise folks in the eBay ivory tower can fix these policies and the customer service problems.   Right?  Hello?

Fortunately, there are some eBay customer service reps in the US that usually get things straightened out.  I hope the OP finds one of them.

[emerald40]

Why wouldn't you have the dimensions.  You sent the package there, so you must have gotten dimensions orginally.

Also, never call.  Email only.  A paper trail for ebay to see where he threatened to damage it even more.

You should have told him to open snad, hit return for refund.

Never bargain with a scammer.  As you can see they just want more and more.

Better to just have him return, get your item back in one piece, and be done with it.

[sidemouse]

There is so much I could say but I want to add one piece of vital information so I will keep it short (so it doesn't get lost).

When a buyer opens a case / return:

ALWAYS 'accept' or 'approve' it.

Once you do that EBAY issues a label that is basically a mirror image of the one the seller used to ship AND it is stamped "return (something)" which is important because the USPS is MUCH more lenient when it comes to return labels: You as a seller do not HAVE to worry about weight and dimensions, just approve / accept the return and let ebay do its thing.

This issuing of the label by ebay is invisible to the seller, only the buyer can see / print that label.

No, ebay will not let you enter weight and dimensions, rather it will use what you used to ship it out.

Again the label itself will be stamped return so the USPS will not turn it down, you the seller will be charged the exact amount you paid to ship it out, basically it is the same label but with your address as the recipient and it does not matter to the USPS if the package isn't exact the same.

Hope that helps.

[robot-hands]

Well, your first, in probably a massive cascade of mistakes was to call your buyer....and then I didn't read any further from there.

Why oh why do sellers call buyers?

[duncanvr]

Did the $1,125 plus $95 shipping through PayPal involve money coming out of your bank account when scammer got refunded? If so try going to your bank and refute the transaction at that end tell them you were robbed. Even though PayPal said they can't  help I bet you could still open a PayPal dispute on the refund regardless. And you'd probably win.  I hate these scammers. This online theiving happens to all level sellers no matter what the feedback score.

[lewisburggold]

Return, refund ,and block.  Best regards

[futuretomorrow]

If it were out of the realm of options to deal with a situation a buyer has brought to a sellers attention I doubt eBay would provide their contact information and continually suggest the seller do everything possible to "work things out" with the buyer first.

eBay in many cases encourages this action so maybe the question is for eBay in as much as it's for sellers? Lastly, I see this as being no different than the better sellers on other platforms that can and have called customers to resolve a problem. All the good franchises I've dealt with, traditional brick and mortars, have the store owner or manager call the customer back to work through the issue with them.

My last such call was with McDonald's. I filled out a complaint online and less than 8hrs later the owner called me. I can give you a few more cases where this is not at all a question any good store owner would ever have. If anything, I'd wonder why sellers aren't calling more but it's on a case by case basis.

For such a high ticket item I personally would not have called, even though that's how I've had the vast majority of my cases handled. The buyers don't know what happens to a seller when a case is open so they're happy to close it. None of the people that picked up, and the vast majority do, were scammers. The seller may not have realized any of this and that email correspondence was their best bet. 

[sidemouse]

I also believe that most of these buyers do not start out as scammers, they may even in the end not believe they were scamming at all even thou I'm finding it difficult to understand just how the buyer justifies keeping the item on top of a refund (although... Ebay does not in effect facilitate the return, you see...)

Let me clarify:

It is ONLY when the refund is CONTINGENT upon the item's return that a buyer is even remotely MOTIVATED to return the item.  That is sad as well, and we as a human race are ALL equally GUILTY as every single one of us WILL keep the item AND take the refund UNLESS the system's process specifically FORCES us to return the item in order to GET said refund.

That is how I believe these situations evolve, somewhere somehow the buyer isn't forced to return the item... As we all know if any return / case is dragged out long enough the buyer can call CS and they issue the refund and that is the end of it.

Unfortunately when seen from the buyer's point of view it all comes across as an uncooperative seller.

If a buyer wishes to return an item for ANY reason they don't really want to get into some back-and-forth with the seller... They don't want phone calls or messages with explanations and otherwise negative answers that basically translate to "no we're not taking returns today but here's a lollipop to help ease your stress, thank you!"

That is where buyers become incensed!

Once this happens a seller's chances of seeing a positive resolution are slim.

So please believe me when I say all a buyer wants to hear is this:

Dear Buyer,
I am sorry if you are unhappy with your purchase, please return for a refund.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/return-item.html
Thank you.
Seller

[luckythewinner]

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@yngwiemalmsteen wrote:

The ebay rep also told me if the buyer didn't accept what I offered in our message that they would help me get a return label made because I told them I didn't know how to make one because when I tried the first time it asked me for dimensions and weight of the item and I don't have that information as the buyer has the guitar now.

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You owned this guitar and shipped it, but you had no idea how to estimate the dimensions of the box needed to ship it? I find that hard to believe. 

[kensgiftshop]

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@futuretomorrow wrote:

Why do people keep giving this advice about seller feedback? I'm seeing consistent cases that show a sellers feedback is irrelevant now. If someone wants to scam you, they're going to scam you. Please provide evidence to the contrary in which had his feedback been higher this couldn't have happened.

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Scammers will go after a low feedback seller before they would a seller with higher feedback.

They know with low feedback, seller is less experienced as one with higher feedback and they tend to make more mistakes.

[rejuvenatekalamazoo]

I hope you are escalating this issue to the highest authority you can in the ebay chain of command. I would NOT even bother talking to a cust. service rep. Demand to talk to management. This is straight up theft and eBay is a party to it by their actions. I would pursue this until I got satisfaction. You have the buyers name, address, phone number, email..  The other take away from this story is, ALWAYS RECORD A PHONE CALL WITH A SCAM BUYER. I know its too late for that now, but if you had that recording, eBay would be on your side... A friend of mine had a feeling a buyer was scamming him on a video game return. He caught the mailman as he was delivering the return, and videotaped himself opening the package in front of the mailman. The package contained an empty game case! No game! He emailed the video to the eBay supervisor he was dealing with, and won the case.

[ohnojoey]

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@yngwiemalmsteen wrote:

I couldn't send the return label because it wouldn't let me get past the screen where you have to enter the dimensions/weight of the box, I have no way of getting that info since I don't have the guitar to box up.

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I found this in about 1 minute.

-Shipping Weight: 25-27 lbs
-Shipping Dimensions: 45 x 17 x 7 in

Any scamming or poor customer service aside, it seems that the whole case was riding on you entering this information, it was easily available.  It was a default judgement of your not responding. In retrospect, it's a moot point.

An appeal, maybe you will prevail in getting some money back, hopefully.

[paudoh-16]

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@ohnojoey wrote:

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@yngwiemalmsteen wrote:

I couldn't send the return label because it wouldn't let me get past the screen where you have to enter the dimensions/weight of the box, I have no way of getting that info since I don't have the guitar to box up.

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I found this in about 1 minute.

-Shipping Weight: 25-27 lbs
-Shipping Dimensions: 45 x 17 x 7 in

Any scamming or poor customer service aside, it seems that the whole case was riding on you entering this information, it was easily available.  It was a default judgement of your not responding. In retrospect, it's a moot point.

An appeal, maybe you will prevail in getting some money back, hopefully.

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This seller provided the utmost in Customer Service. 

This NEVER should have happened. Ever.

@yngwiemalmsteen I hope you get full compensation for this travesty. 

[myangelandmyprincess]

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@rejuvenatekalamazoo wrote:

I hope you are escalating this issue to the highest authority you can in the ebay chain of command. I would NOT even bother talking to a cust. service rep. Demand to talk to management. This is straight up theft and eBay is a party to it by their actions. I would pursue this until I got satisfaction. You have the buyers name, address, phone number, email..  The other take away from this story is, ALWAYS RECORD A PHONE CALL WITH A SCAM BUYER. I know its too late for that now, but if you had that recording, eBay would be on your side... A friend of mine had a feeling a buyer was scamming him on a video game return. He caught the mailman as he was delivering the return, and videotaped himself opening the package in front of the mailman. The package contained an empty game case! No game! He emailed the video to the eBay supervisor he was dealing with, and won the case.

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By selling on eBay the the op agreed to the terms.  And one of those is they don’t accept a return or provide a label eBay can issue the buyer a full refund without return