eBay

yngwiemalmsteen · ‎07-13-2018

I sold a MINT Fender Stevie Ray Vaughan Stratocaster guitar on Ebay. I started the auction at only $1. Keep in mind these guitars sell new for $1,700. The buyer won the auction for about $1,125 plus $95 shipping. I had 12 detailed photos of the guitar on the ad and also a 5 minute up close video in the ad as well a link to youtube for them to see. I had only played the guitar less than a hour since buying it brand new a few weeks before so I know it was MINT.

The seller gets the guitar and then opens a dispute saying does not match the description because he said the pickguard had scratches on it that looked like it was scratched with sandpaper. There was no way that damage like that could have been caused in transit, impossible. I did not send him the guitar like that. He sent two photos and they were so up close and so much light shining on them that I could not really tell if it was scratched or if it was the normal grain pattern that a plastic pickguard naturally has.

I feel like he either has a case of buyers remorse or he is just a con artist scamming people on Ebay, although he does have 100% positive feedback over 500.

I talked to the buyer over the phone and he became very hostile towards me and he told me on the phone that if I didn't meet his demands he would damage the guitar further and send it back with even more damage just to spite me so that I wouldn't even be able to resell it again.

The next day I offered the buyer a partial refund of $20 for a new SRV pickguard because I seen that's what they had sold for in completed auctions recently. But that wasn't good enough for him, he wrote back saying he'd keep the guitar if I refunded him back $200, he said a pickguard from the factory would be $200, I wrote him back and let him know that's incorrect, a pickguard loaded with pickups and electronics may be $200 but all he would need is just the pickguard if it in fact was damaged. He still argued. So I called PayPal and they basically said I should try harder to work it out with the buyer, so th buyer told me he found a pickguard on Ebay for $99.99 and if I refund him back that amount he would be happy.

So I told him that would be ok with me to just get done with this hassle and headache. BUT, then the buyer came up with a new demand... He now all of a sudden days later says there was no keys in the case for the case! I advised him that my ad on ebay NEVER said anything about keys being included, however, I did actually include them.

I advised buyer that keys could be replaced for $10 or so and advised him where he could buy them, I also advised him that most guitar case keys are universal so keys from another case should work with this one.

But buyer said he went to guitar center and insists it will cost $110 to get another key and have a lock made for the key. I felt like that was ridiculous and that the buyer was trying to extort money from me. So I told him no deal, I will refund $99.99, nothing more.

So ebay gave him a full refund today.

I called Ebay about 4 times in the last few days, spent about 3 hours on the phone with them. They told me they were going to investigate the matter and that they will look at all evidence. But they did nothing. They just refun the buyer. They didn't listen to my side at all. The ebay rep also told me if the buyer didn't accept what I offered in our message that they would help me get a return label made because I told them I didn't know how to make one because when I tried the first time it asked me for dimensions and weight of the item and I don't have that information as the buyer has the guitar now.

Then they tell me they have no notes of any agent telling me that and that I should have understood the email they sent me better.

I told them that the buyer told me he would damage the guitar, and 1st ebay rep said don't worry it'd be taken care of but 2nd ebay rep said we have no way to take care of that. They said my only recourse is to file small claims case, call police etc. Police or internet fraud site won't care , I mean it's not gonna get me back the money or the guitar. Ebay is telling me I'm just out of luck that they have no way to make the buyer send the guitar back and that I will not be paid anything.

I called paypal and they said they can't help either since buyer filed dispute through ebay.

This is not some $50 cheap trinket, we are talking about a guitar I bought new for $1,700 and sold at a steal for $1,125+$95 shipping, and now the buyer and Ebay are ripping me off.

So this is REALLY happening?

I'm out the guitar AND the money? Buyer gets my guitar for free and I get NOTHING?

Ebay told me this morning I can file a appeal, but it all seems like lip serive to me. Hows a appeal going to help? I don't have any new evidence/info that wasn't already provided.

retrose1 · ‎07-14-2018

OP, Welcome to ebay's buyer protection. As was stated upthread, this happens so often we are used to it .

Your first mistake was to consider listing the guitar without having a LOT of feedback so you would know how ebay's buyercentric policies work.

What you can do is file a using the mail to fraud report with the PO on the buyer. Then file a report for internet theft/fraud with the buyers local police dept. And report what happened to your local news agency about the security of selling on ebay.

(*Bleep*)

everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures · ‎07-14-2018

@yngwiemalmsteen wrote:
I sold a MINT Fender Stevie Ray Vaughan Stratocaster guitar on Ebay. I started the auction at only $1. Keep in mind these guitars sell new for $1,700. The buyer won the auction for about $1,125 plus $95 shipping. I had 12 detailed photos of the guitar on the ad and also a 5 minute up close video in the ad as well a link to youtube for them to see. I had only played the guitar less than a hour since buying it brand new a few weeks before so I know it was MINT.

The seller gets the guitar and then opens a dispute saying does not match the description because he said the pickguard had scratches on it that looked like it was scratched with sandpaper. There was no way that damage like that could have been caused in transit, impossible. I did not send him the guitar like that. He sent two photos and they were so up close and so much light shining on them that I could not really tell if it was scratched or if it was the normal grain pattern that a plastic pickguard naturally has.

I feel like he either has a case of buyers remorse or he is just a con artist scamming people on Ebay, although he does have 100% positive feedback over 500.

I talked to the buyer over the phone and he became very hostile towards me and he told me on the phone that if I didn't meet his demands he would damage the guitar further and send it back with even more damage just to spite me so that I wouldn't even be able to resell it again.

The next day I offered the buyer a partial refund of $20 for a new SRV pickguard because I seen that's what they had sold for in completed auctions recently. But that wasn't good enough for him, he wrote back saying he'd keep the guitar if I refunded him back $200, he said a pickguard from the factory would be $200, I wrote him back and let him know that's incorrect, a pickguard loaded with pickups and electronics may be $200 but all he would need is just the pickguard if it in fact was damaged. He still argued. So I called PayPal and they basically said I should try harder to work it out with the buyer, so th buyer told me he found a pickguard on Ebay for $99.99 and if I refund him back that amount he would be happy.

So I told him that would be ok with me to just get done with this hassle and headache. BUT, then the buyer came up with a new demand... He now all of a sudden days later says there was no keys in the case for the case! I advised him that my ad on ebay NEVER said anything about keys being included, however, I did actually include them.

I advised buyer that keys could be replaced for $10 or so and advised him where he could buy them, I also advised him that most guitar case keys are universal so keys from another case should work with this one.

But buyer said he went to guitar center and insists it will cost $110 to get another key and have a lock made for the key. I felt like that was ridiculous and that the buyer was trying to extort money from me. So I told him no deal, I will refund $99.99, nothing more.

So ebay gave him a full refund today.

I called Ebay about 4 times in the last few days, spent about 3 hours on the phone with them. They told me they were going to investigate the matter and that they will look at all evidence. But they did nothing. They just refun the buyer. They didn't listen to my side at all. The ebay rep also told me if the buyer didn't accept what I offered in our message that they would help me get a return label made because I told them I didn't know how to make one because when I tried the first time it asked me for dimensions and weight of the item and I don't have that information as the buyer has the guitar now.

Then they tell me they have no notes of any agent telling me that and that I should have understood the email they sent me better.

I told them that the buyer told me he would damage the guitar, and 1st ebay rep said don't worry it'd be taken care of but 2nd ebay rep said we have no way to take care of that. They said my only recourse is to file small claims case, call police etc. Police or internet fraud site won't care , I mean it's not gonna get me back the money or the guitar. Ebay is telling me I'm just out of luck that they have no way to make the buyer send the guitar back and that I will not be paid anything.

I called paypal and they said they can't help either since buyer filed dispute through ebay.

This is not some $50 cheap trinket, we are talking about a guitar I bought new for $1,700 and sold at a steal for $1,125+$95 shipping, and now the buyer and Ebay are ripping me off.

So this is REALLY happening?
I'm out the guitar AND the money? Buyer gets my guitar for free and I get NOTHING?

Ebay told me this morning I can file a appeal, but it all seems like lip serive to me. Hows a appeal going to help? I don't have any new evidence/info that wasn't already provided.

Reps not puttng notes on accounts has been going on forever...OK not forever but since they began outsourcing the customer service......it is that or putting incorrect notes in that have nothing even close to what was discussed. EBay says this isn't happening and they have never heard of any complaints.
And like you said the appeal is probably lip service with how things are now but that is the only option you have. You have to at least try.
I have removed all such items from ebay and I have guitars, sold many here back in the day as well as higher end antiques, jewelry and art because the risk is just too high for me personally on those items with the new policies and lack of seller protections now. Now it is just some lower end stuff here for me...until something changes.

everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures · ‎07-14-2018

@sidemouse wrote:
I also believe that most of these buyers do not start out as scammers, they may even in the end not believe they were scamming at all even thou I'm finding it difficult to understand just how the buyer justifies keeping the item on top of a refund (although... Ebay does not in effect facilitate the return, you see...)

Let me clarify:

It is ONLY when the refund is CONTINGENT upon the item's return that a buyer is even remotely MOTIVATED to return the item. That is sad as well, and we as a human race are ALL equally GUILTY as every single one of us WILL keep the item AND take the refund UNLESS the system's process specifically FORCES us to return the item in order to GET said refund.

That is how I believe these situations evolve, somewhere somehow the buyer isn't forced to return the item... As we all know if any return / case is dragged out long enough the buyer can call CS and they issue the refund and that is the end of it.

Unfortunately when seen from the buyer's point of view it all comes across as an uncooperative seller.

If a buyer wishes to return an item for ANY reason they don't really want to get into some back-and-forth with the seller... They don't want phone calls or messages with explanations and otherwise negative answers that basically translate to "no we're not taking returns today but here's a lollipop to help ease your stress, thank you!"

That is where buyers become incensed!
Once this happens a seller's chances of seeing a positive resolution are slim.

So please believe me when I say all a buyer wants to hear is this:

Dear Buyer,
I am sorry if you are unhappy with your purchase, please return for a refund.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/return-item.html
Thank you.
Seller

Wow....I am so glad to say no it is not something we are all guilty of. I most certainly am not part of that group. Most people have no intention of ripping anyone off. There is a small segment of the population that do things like that with the full intent of doing so or feel they are entitled to someone else's merchandise for free.
And it is the new policies that allow those people to do so here so freely. In fact they come here for this very reason. They are just given our merchadise for free...no questions asked. And there are no other sites so blatantly doing this and encouraging it and advertising it. Most all other sites have seller protection.

everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures · ‎07-14-2018

@retrose1 wrote:
OP, Welcome to ebay's buyer protection. As was stated upthread, this happens so often we are used to it .

Your first mistake was to consider listing the guitar without having a LOT of feedback so you would know how ebay's buyercentric policies work.

What you can do is file a using the mail to fraud report with the PO on the buyer. Then file a report for internet theft/fraud with the buyers local police dept. And report what happened to your local news agency about the security of selling on ebay.

It is the FTC that would handle copmplaints about ebay and who is one of the few that has juridiction over them.
Mail fraud, with the postmaster general, would be filed against the buyer.
A police report can also be made but it would fall to being a civil matter as far as they are concerned...as this was done through and as a result of a dispute process...and becomes a he said / he said issue.

ohnojoey · ‎07-14-2018

@paudoh-16 wrote:
@ohnojoey wrote:
@yngwiemalmsteen wrote:
I couldn't send the return label because it wouldn't let me get past the screen where you have to enter the dimensions/weight of the box, I have no way of getting that info since I don't have the guitar to box up.

I found this in about 1 minute.
-Shipping Weight: 25-27 lbs
-Shipping Dimensions: 45 x 17 x 7 in

Any scamming or poor customer service aside, it seems that the whole case was riding on you entering this information, it was easily available. It was a default judgement of your not responding. In retrospect, it's a moot point.

An appeal, maybe you will prevail in getting some money back, hopefully.
This seller provided the utmost in Customer Service.

This NEVER should have happened. Ever.

@yngwiemalmsteen I hope you get full compensation for this travesty.

Ebay's rules, not mine. They have a protocol; if not followed, this happens, automatically. So an appeal will straighten it out or not, but an appeal will never work if it's not filed.

So file. I want the OP to get their money back.

What other choice is there at this point?

Oh, and I was talking about poor ebay customer service, not the op.

ohnojoey · ‎07-14-2018

.

paudoh-16 · ‎07-14-2018

@ohnojoey wrote:
@paudoh-16 wrote:
@ohnojoey wrote:
@yngwiemalmsteen wrote:
I couldn't send the return label because it wouldn't let me get past the screen where you have to enter the dimensions/weight of the box, I have no way of getting that info since I don't have the guitar to box up.

I found this in about 1 minute.
-Shipping Weight: 25-27 lbs
-Shipping Dimensions: 45 x 17 x 7 in

Any scamming or poor customer service aside, it seems that the whole case was riding on you entering this information, it was easily available. It was a default judgement of your not responding. In retrospect, it's a moot point.

An appeal, maybe you will prevail in getting some money back, hopefully.
This seller provided the utmost in Customer Service.

This NEVER should have happened. Ever.

@yngwiemalmsteen I hope you get full compensation for this travesty.
Ebay's rules, not mine. They have a protocol; if not followed, this happens, automatically. So an appeal will straighten it out or not, but an appeal will never work if it's not filed.
So file. I want the OP to get their money back.
What other choice is there at this point?
Oh, and I was talking about poor ebay customer service, not the op.

Sorry. I didn't mean to offend.

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Throw me to the wolves and I'll come back leading the pack.

ohnojoey · ‎07-14-2018

@paudoh-16 wrote:
@ohnojoey wrote:
@paudoh-16 wrote:
@ohnojoey wrote:
@yngwiemalmsteen wrote:
I couldn't send the return label because it wouldn't let me get past the screen where you have to enter the dimensions/weight of the box, I have no way of getting that info since I don't have the guitar to box up.

I found this in about 1 minute.
-Shipping Weight: 25-27 lbs
-Shipping Dimensions: 45 x 17 x 7 in

Any scamming or poor customer service aside, it seems that the whole case was riding on you entering this information, it was easily available. It was a default judgement of your not responding. In retrospect, it's a moot point.

An appeal, maybe you will prevail in getting some money back, hopefully.
This seller provided the utmost in Customer Service.

This NEVER should have happened. Ever.

@yngwiemalmsteen I hope you get full compensation for this travesty.
Ebay's rules, not mine. They have a protocol; if not followed, this happens, automatically. So an appeal will straighten it out or not, but an appeal will never work if it's not filed.
So file. I want the OP to get their money back.
What other choice is there at this point?
Oh, and I was talking about poor ebay customer service, not the op.
Sorry. I didn't mean to offend.

There was no offense taken, just an explanation and I didn't articulate "ebay" customer service so it was open to misunderstanding. My bad!

yngwiemalmsteen · ‎07-14-2018

I went back to the place that shipped the guitar today and they were able to make and email me a return shipping label. I contacted the High Value department at Ebay and they sent me a link to upload it as it was a PDF file, they said they sent it to the buyer to use to return the guitar and they said they will call the buyer as well to advise them to return the guitar now.

I guess it's wait and see now. It will probably be 7 to 10 days I expect before the guitar will show up, if it shows up.

The two people I talked to in High Value department said if the guitar arrives back to me with any damage on it that wasn't there when I mailed it out that there would be some sort of other escalation process we could go through to seek further compensation.

I'm upset that I shipped the guitar to the buyer and he was refunded the shipping cost, plus on top of that I had to pay $87 more to make the return shipping label today, that's almost $175 right there I'm losing in a best case scenario.

I don't ever plan to sell high dollar music equipment on Ebay ever again, I will use the Reverb site that I used a few times in the past with no issues (just on Reverb stuff can be slower to sell sometimes), or sell local pickup on Craigslist. Ebay is just too much of a headache, hassle and risk to be worth it. Plus Reverb dosen't charge anywhere near as much in fees.

yngwiemalmsteen · ‎07-14-2018

Also as far as the commentor that said they found the shipping info in a minute.... I was aware of that much, but packing materials and the box used could change those measurements/weight somewhat and I was worried if it was exact that I'd be disqualified or have to do it over. I called the shipping place, Airpark Pak N Ship, and they were able to make a return label using the exact info they entered when they first shipped the guitar to the package. I had no idea they would be able to do that until I called them.

vinashop2017 · ‎07-14-2018

Like

vinashop2017 · ‎07-14-2018

Yes

everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures · ‎07-14-2018

@yngwiemalmsteen wrote:
Also as far as the commentor that said they found the shipping info in a minute.... I was aware of that much, but packing materials and the box used could change those measurements/weight somewhat and I was worried if it was exact that I'd be disqualified or have to do it over. I called the shipping place, Airpark Pak N Ship, and they were able to make a return label using the exact info they entered when they first shipped the guitar to the package. I had no idea they would be able to do that until I called them.

Some members are unfailiar with using a pack and ship store, and why we use it especially on higher dollar items etc and do not think about it when responding or that a pack and ship store will print the label based on their required packaging and weight to ensure insuance coverage. They assume it is how they pack and ship themselves and print labels on ebay.
Glad you got ebay to work with you on this and that you did not give up.
Fingers crossed.

carlmarxx · ‎07-14-2018

@myangelandmyprincess wrote:
@rejuvenatekalamazoo wrote:
I hope you are escalating this issue to the highest authority you can in the ebay chain of command. I would NOT even bother talking to a cust. service rep. Demand to talk to management. This is straight up theft and eBay is a party to it by their actions. I would pursue this until I got satisfaction. You have the buyers name, address, phone number, email.. The other take away from this story is, ALWAYS RECORD A PHONE CALL WITH A SCAM BUYER. I know its too late for that now, but if you had that recording, eBay would be on your side... A friend of mine had a feeling a buyer was scamming him on a video game return. He caught the mailman as he was delivering the return, and videotaped himself opening the package in front of the mailman. The package contained an empty game case! No game! He emailed the video to the eBay supervisor he was dealing with, and won the case.
By selling on eBay the the op agreed to the terms. And one of those is they don’t accept a return or provide a label eBay can issue the buyer a full refund without return

The Op was try to send the label to buyer. But had a issue of getting a over size class shipping label . Which ebay did give the OP the Help . . Ebay should not be that fast to help the buyer or any buyers too defraud seller's by use of USPS to do part of the theft with in any manner . what seller is going to take that lose of the item ,the OP is out of.

carlmarxx · ‎07-14-2018

@futuretomorrow wrote:
Why do people keep giving this advice about seller feedback? I'm seeing consistent cases that show a sellers feedback is irrelevant now. If someone wants to scam you, they're going to scam you. Please provide evidence to the contrary in which had his feedback been higher this couldn't have happened.

This consistent message suggests that criminals don't adjust their behavior and further suggests that once they've picked off any noobs they'll simply leave instead of moving on to greener pastures. Again, based on my call with eBay and posts last weekend, and a body of consistent outcome based evidence anyone at any seller level can be had here and even the better eBay CSR's know this.

I feel at this point people are just repeating advice they've heard others give without thinking it through. And frankly it doesn't make logical sense. I fail to see the connection. It may be harder because you think you've covered all bases but higher seller feedback protects no one and isn't a magic bullet.

Futuretomorrow Let me tell you something Brother! I have been giving out this advice out the day ebay hired the buyer first Ceo JD. back in 2007 that had policy's made for scam buyers! I and others didn't give it out before he was here . Because ebay didn't have these happen as oftened as they do now ! They where rare back then .