Buyer gets full refund AND keeps the guitar? And I'm left with nothing? Really?

[yngwiemalmsteen]

I sold a MINT Fender Stevie Ray Vaughan Stratocaster guitar on Ebay. I started the auction at only $1. Keep in mind these guitars sell new for $1,700. The buyer won the auction for about $1,125 plus $95 shipping. I had 12 detailed photos of the guitar on the ad and also a 5 minute up close video in the ad as well a link to youtube for them to see. I had only played the guitar less than a hour since buying it brand new a few weeks before so I know it was MINT.

The seller gets the guitar and then opens a dispute saying does not match the description because he said the pickguard had scratches on it that looked like it was scratched with sandpaper. There was no way that damage like that could have been caused in transit, impossible. I did not send him the guitar like that. He sent two photos and they were so up close and so much light shining on them that I could not really tell if it was scratched or if it was the normal grain pattern that a plastic pickguard naturally has.

I feel like he either has a case of buyers remorse or he is just a con artist scamming people on Ebay, although he does have 100% positive feedback over 500.

I talked to the buyer over the phone and he became very hostile towards me and he told me on the phone that if I didn't meet his demands he would damage the guitar further and send it back with even more damage just to spite me so that I wouldn't even be able to resell it again.

The next day I offered the buyer a partial refund of $20 for a new SRV pickguard because I seen that's what they had sold for in completed auctions recently. But that wasn't good enough for him, he wrote back saying he'd keep the guitar if I refunded him back $200, he said a pickguard from the factory would be $200, I wrote him back and let him know that's incorrect, a pickguard loaded with pickups and electronics may be $200 but all he would need is just the pickguard if it in fact was damaged. He still argued. So I called PayPal and they basically said I should try harder to work it out with the buyer, so th buyer told me he found a pickguard on Ebay for $99.99 and if I refund him back that amount he would be happy.

So I told him that would be ok with me to just get done with this hassle and headache. BUT, then the buyer came up with a new demand... He now all of a sudden days later says there was no keys in the case for the case! I advised him that my ad on ebay NEVER said anything about keys being included, however, I did actually include them.

I advised buyer that keys could be replaced for $10 or so and advised him where he could buy them, I also advised him that most guitar case keys are universal so keys from another case should work with this one.

But buyer said he went to guitar center and insists it will cost $110 to get another key and have a lock made for the key. I felt like that was ridiculous and that the buyer was trying to extort money from me. So I told him no deal, I will refund $99.99, nothing more.

So ebay gave him a full refund today.

I called Ebay about 4 times in the last few days, spent about 3 hours on the phone with them. They told me they were going to investigate the matter and that they will look at all evidence. But they did nothing. They just refun the buyer. They didn't listen to my side at all. The ebay rep also told me if the buyer didn't accept what I offered in our message that they would help me get a return label made because I told them I didn't know how to make one because when I tried the first time it asked me for dimensions and weight of the item and I don't have that information as the buyer has the guitar now.

Then they tell me they have no notes of any agent telling me that and that I should have understood the email they sent me better.

I told them that the buyer told me he would damage the guitar, and 1st ebay rep said don't worry it'd be taken care of but 2nd ebay rep said we have no way to take care of that. They said my only recourse is to file small claims case, call police etc. Police or internet fraud site won't care , I mean it's not gonna get me back the money or the guitar. Ebay is telling me I'm just out of luck that they have no way to make the buyer send the guitar back and that I will not be paid anything.

I called paypal and they said they can't help either since buyer filed dispute through ebay.

This is not some $50 cheap trinket, we are talking about a guitar I bought new for $1,700 and sold at a steal for $1,125+$95 shipping, and now the buyer and Ebay are ripping me off.

So this is REALLY happening?

I'm out the guitar AND the money? Buyer gets my guitar for free and I get NOTHING?

Ebay told me this morning I can file a appeal, but it all seems like lip serive to me. Hows a appeal going to help? I don't have any new evidence/info that wasn't already provided.

[kensgiftshop]

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@yngwiemalmsteen

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Sorry that happened, but it would have been better to just accept the return and send a return shipping label.

You only have a certain amount of time to take care of the return.

When you didn't approve the return, buyer probably ask Ebay to step in.

When Ebay has to help, it usually ends up with the buyer getting refunded and the item.

[yngwiemalmsteen]

I couldn't send the return label because it wouldn't let me get past the screen where you have to enter the dimensions/weight of the box, I have no way of getting that info since I don't have the guitar to box up. All I know is it cost less than $95 to ship the guitar to buyer, so it should cost no more than $95 for buyer to ship it back to me. (But knowing this buyer he will probably say he needs $200 for air mail or special box or something to extort more money)

But anyway when I called Ebay they made it sound like they were still investigating and that they would help me get a return label sent if it came down to it.

But they closed it with refund to buyer today, Ebay never helped me and now it dosen't give me an option to make a return label.

If I appeal it tomorrow, will they be able to at least get the guitar returned to m or what outcome is likely?

I've talked to 4 Ebay reps, to supervisors, none even spoke english, they all sound like they just read scripted responses, it's like talking to a brick wall, they don't listen, understand and comprehend anything I say.

[ed8108]

Very sad & depressing

Do the appeal.

[carlmarxx]

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@yngwiemalmsteen wrote:

I couldn't send the return label because it wouldn't let me get past the screen where you have to enter the dimensions/weight of the box, I have no way of getting that info since I don't have the guitar to box up. All I know is it cost less than $95 to ship the guitar to buyer, so it should cost no more than $95 for buyer to ship it back to me. (But knowing this buyer he will probably say he needs $200 for air mail or special box or something to extort more money)

But anyway when I called Ebay they made it sound like they were still investigating and that they would help me get a return label sent if it came down to it.

But they closed it with refund to buyer today, Ebay never helped me and now it dosen't give me an option to make a return label.

If I appeal it tomorrow, will they be able to at least get the guitar returned to m or what outcome is likely?

I've talked to 4 Ebay reps, to supervisors, none even spoke english, they all sound like they just read scripted responses, it's like talking to a brick wall, they don't listen, understand and comprehend anything I say.

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Call ebay back and get a supervisor on the phone  .     also keep mined never again sell a high valued  items until you get over 400 feedback ,Because  scam buyers target  sellers with under 300 feedback.

[futuretomorrow]

I'm genuinely sorry and reading your story has impacted me a little more so than other stories I've read recently. This is also the exact scenario another seller was asking about last Sunday and I shared my recent eBay call experience with them regarding but the category was tech and think we were both focused on computers/electronics. In my case, I decided to not list the items here for sale.

Pre-2014 I NEVER had to research if eBay was safe to sell my old music equipment and computers. It just was. All I had to research then were prices for similar condition items.

This is simply terrible on so many levels. Reading your unfortunate story I can also see where I've maybe been dodging a bullet by calling customers to resolve cases but I know high value matters shouldn't be discussed via a method that isn't recorded and mine were shoelaces from $6.99-$9.99 cases, not a $1700 Fender. If what you've stated could have been proven via a series of emails, a lawyer could have "maybe" gotten involved as it "appears" to be a clear case of fraud that eBay has supported.

[futuretomorrow]

Why do people keep giving this advice about seller feedback? I'm seeing consistent cases that show a sellers feedback is irrelevant now. If someone wants to scam you, they're going to scam you. Please provide evidence to the contrary in which had his feedback been higher this couldn't have happened.

This consistent message suggests that criminals don't adjust their behavior and further suggests that once they've picked off any noobs they'll simply leave instead of moving on to greener pastures. Again, based on my call with eBay and posts last weekend, and a body of consistent outcome based evidence anyone at any seller level can be had here and even the better eBay CSR's know this.

I feel at this point people are just repeating advice they've heard others give without thinking it through. And frankly it doesn't make logical sense. I fail to see the connection. It may be harder because you think you've covered all bases but higher seller feedback protects no one and isn't a magic bullet.

[sookie*stackhouse]

You need to appeal, but you need to speak to the High Value dept. (might not be the exact name but close enough). Don't bother speaking to anyone else or any "supervisors". Your appeal is with High Value.  They are in the US, you will be able to tell the difference immediately.

I don't think that department is open on the weekends, so you might have to wait till Monday. Call on Monday and whoever you end up with in the Phillipines ask to be transfered to High Value.  Don't bother going into your story, just state the fact that this is a $1200 transaction and that you need to be transferred.  Just keep repeating it and they will eventually transfer you.

When you get to the correct department, calmly explain your story. Be clear, concise and don't get angry or emotional.  Explain that the buyer has the item and a refund and that this situation needs to be rectified. Good luck.

Again I can't stress enough not to bother telling your story to the Phillipines, they have no authority to fix this and can never get money issues rectified. They will tell you anything to get you off the phone. They don't have the time, inclination or ability to investigate anything. You will only waste your time and get yourself more upset.

[yngwiemalmsteen]

Thank you, I will be calling them in the morning and asking for the "High Value" dept, that's first I ever heard of that. I will try, but if not then I will call on Monday first thing.

I also think you are right about the Philippines just telling people anything to get them off the phone, because I asked one tonight to walk me though the steps on how to make a return label after the buyer was refunded and it was closed out and she just transferred me to PayPal and then PayPal had no idea why I was transferred, PayPal said a different dpt handles return labels and was closed to Monday so I felt like I really got the run around.

I am not a big seller like a business or store, I'm just a guitar player that buys stuff on Ebay sometimes, and just happened to sell 7 guitars recently because I had a custom guitar built and just really couldn't justify keeping that many guitars when my custom Suhr is so nice.

I feel a little hope now that I know there's this High Value department, I hope that they can help get the guitar back,
Thanks again, this info seems very helpful!

[futuretomorrow]

Correct. For serious matters I ALWAYS ask to be transferred to the North American office, even if it means longer hold times.

[sookie*stackhouse]

 Remember to be clear and concise. If you think it would help, make a list of your talking points. Don't get too in the weeds with the buyer said, I said. etc. The more convulated the story, the more apt people are to tune out.

The main issue is that Ebay refunded the buyer without the guitar being returned.  They can't get you the guitar back. There is no way to force the buyer to send it back.

What you're aiming for is for Ebay to refund you on their dime. Their error, their responsiblity to make you whole. You shouldn't have lost $1200 worth of merchandise because their customer service continued to give you incorrect information and then incorrectly refunded the buyer without the merchandise being returned.

Good luck

[flyinhawaiiangirl]

I'm curious if anyone has seen an I got ripped off on Ebay story on their local news. I don't sell anything that expensive, but I would be devastated financially and emotionally if I had something of this value and experience. Would media attention change anything, or is that too much for a 7 news investigates deal?

[bubbleman2010]

It happens with so much frequency anymore its not really news. Had the OP posted here once the buyer requested a return most folks here could have told them what the outcome would be for the path he chose to follow,but posters never believe anyone and go with ebays got our back....

[fab_finds4u]

Oh no,  I wish you had of looked for help as soon as the buyer claimed it wasn't as described.

Don't hold your breath you'll get your money or the guitar back. 

eBay is very specific what happens when the buyer claims it isn't as described.   They want the seller to resolve the problem within 3 days.   After 3 days goes by you're in danger of losing your item if you didn't accept the return in the case or provided a return shipping label.  Sending return shipping money is also ok.    Plus, if the case is escalated to eBay the seller gets a defect for having a case that was not resolved by the seller.  (unresolve seller defect)  You never want that to happen, eBay having to resolve the case.   Getting a defect is bad enough but if eBay steps in you're also in danger of  not getting the item returned!  Yes, you can lose the item and the money. And that shouldn't be a surprise.    When the buyer claims it isn't as described  eBay wants you to offer a solution, such as accepting a return, offering a replacement or refund.   If a partial refund was offered and accepted, that's fine but if it isn't accepted, or the amount can't be agreed upon then you needed to stop the negotiating ASAP and in the case agree to accept the return so you get your item  back.  eBay would've sent them a return label and charged it to you.    

from eBay

"When an item doesn't match the listing description

If a buyer receives an item that doesn't match the listing description, the buyer needs to request a return from My eBay. The seller should address the buyer's concern and offer a solution, such as accepting a return, offering a replacement or refund. 

If the buyer doesn't receive a response or solution, or returns the item but doesn't receive a refund or replacement from the seller, the buyer can ask us to step in and help. "

 "When an item isn't returned to the seller

In some instances, we may not require that an item be returned to the seller. In these situations, we refund the buyer and may seek reimbursement from the seller, for example if:

• The seller chooses not to accept a return request or provide a return shipping label."

[futuretomorrow]

@flyinhawaiiangirl

I would upvote your advice or question 200 times if I could. It's the only recourse the buyer has to resolve this.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/may/21/ebay-accused-failing-sellers-buyers-manipulate-system-...

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/jan/05/ebay-australia-member-mails-**bleep**-threats-obscene-...

"It was only after The Observer intervened that the auction site examined the history of Rose’s buyer – what the company found was a pattern of suspect behaviour." - guess what eBay did? Made things right for the sellers in every single case!

1. In every one of these cases eBay only made things right for the scammed seller when said seller or group went to the Guardian, Observer and others and reported eBay turning a blind eye to clear abuse and fraud on their platform.

2. This is consistent with my past experiences with eBay as well. Posting here, Twitter or elsewhere did absolutely nothing but as soon as I used platforms like Facebook to post about counterfeit items in Sponsored Links, they were removed from eBay in under 10 minutes. Funny how that works isn't it?

I'm sorry but based on principle alone I would not let this go. If the seller has accurately presented all facts and isn't conveniently leaving something out that could change the outcome they have a very strong case here. This abuse of sellers needs to stop. If the OP has a friend or friend of a friend in the media, now is the time to ask for a "favor". I would nail eBay to the wall over this.

The pattern is clear. eBay only acts (like almost every corporation on the planet) when the publicity is negative and exposes complicity in criminal behavior.